Occupy Wall Street: Support or Oppose? (OWS vs. Nativity)

[GreecePwns]

"It's much worse with unions."

Do you plan on presenting any evidence for this claim?

[PLAYER57832]

Corporations get to bribe candidates with their support/money/future employment and then get to directly write up bills which benefit them. That's called a quid pro quo, which is illegal, and corporations do it on a daily basis.

It goes both ways, and both should be stopped.

Fine by me.

However, it's much worse with unions. In exactly no other industry do you get to put your boss into power and then directly negotiate what you will get paid from him.

Isn't that what happens with stockholders?

And, politicians for that matter?

[PLAYER57832]

To get back to Occupy...

Seems the inevitable has happened. The adults have let the kids have their tantrum and now are moving on to the business of sending them to their rooms and cleaning up.

[Night Strike]

"It's much worse with unions."

Do you plan on presenting any evidence for this claim?

You must have stopped reading my post. When you get to vote in your boss AND tell them what you will get paid, it is a direct cause of the massive deficits our governments are seeing today.

[spurgistan]

To get back to Occupy...

Seems the inevitable has happened. The adults have let the kids have their tantrum and now are moving on to the business of sending them to their rooms and cleaning up.

I have no idea what this post means. Are the police parents? Is shooting tear gas canisters at people the equivalent of telling them to clean up? Do you think that Occupy is fading out just because the media isn't all over it anymore?

[Night Strike]

To get back to Occupy...

Seems the inevitable has happened. The adults have let the kids have their tantrum and now are moving on to the business of sending them to their rooms and cleaning up.

I have no idea what this post means. Are the police parents? Is shooting tear gas canisters at people the equivalent of telling them to clean up? Do you think that Occupy is fading out just because the media isn't all over it anymore?

Occupy will fade out because it's just a bunch of angry people bent on violence, not because they actually have values.

[notyou2]

To get back to Occupy...

Seems the inevitable has happened. The adults have let the kids have their tantrum and now are moving on to the business of sending them to their rooms and cleaning up.

I have no idea what this post means. Are the police parents? Is shooting tear gas canisters at people the equivalent of telling them to clean up? Do you think that Occupy is fading out just because the media isn't all over it anymore?

Occupy will fade out because it's just a bunch of angry people bent on violence, not because they actually have values.

Nice judgement call. How christian of you.

[Night Strike]

To get back to Occupy...

Seems the inevitable has happened. The adults have let the kids have their tantrum and now are moving on to the business of sending them to their rooms and cleaning up.

I have no idea what this post means. Are the police parents? Is shooting tear gas canisters at people the equivalent of telling them to clean up? Do you think that Occupy is fading out just because the media isn't all over it anymore?

Occupy will fade out because it's just a bunch of angry people bent on violence, not because they actually have values.

Nice judgement call. How christian of you.

So I'm not allowed to comment on politics because I'm a Christian?

[notyou2]

You are judging people and painting them all with the same brush. That is against a basic christian value, so says your saviour JC.

Apparently you only choose to follow certain tenets of your faith, which smacks of hypocrisy.

[Lootifer]

You are judging people and painting them all with the same brush. That is against a basic christian value, so says your saviour JC.

Apparently you only choose to follow certain tenets of your faith, which smacks of hypocrisy.

Come on notyou2, dont be silly; ALL the protesters are clearly as NS says they are, silly billy.

Here I can roll my eyes in a condescenditious (is that a word?) way too:

[PLAYER57832]

To get back to Occupy...

Seems the inevitable has happened. The adults have let the kids have their tantrum and now are moving on to the business of sending them to their rooms and cleaning up.

I have no idea what this post means. Are the police parents? Is shooting tear gas canisters at people the equivalent of telling them to clean up? Do you think that Occupy is fading out just because the media isn't all over it anymore?

There ARE real issues, but no one in power is going to listen to a bunch of folks camped out in a park, not really. They tolerate them, to a point, know that allowing them to exist and mostly burn themselves out is a far more effective way to be rid of them than to actually come down hard and object.

So, basically, they are being treated like toddlers having tantrums.. ignored until they peter out or just get a tad too bothersome. In this case, a bit of both.

[Symmetry]

To get back to Occupy...

Seems the inevitable has happened. The adults have let the kids have their tantrum and now are moving on to the business of sending them to their rooms and cleaning up.

I have no idea what this post means. Are the police parents? Is shooting tear gas canisters at people the equivalent of telling them to clean up? Do you think that Occupy is fading out just because the media isn't all over it anymore?

There ARE real issues, but no one in power is going to listen to a bunch of folks camped out in a park, not really. They tolerate them, to a point, know that allowing them to exist and mostly burn themselves out is a far more effective way to be rid of them than to actually come down hard and object.

So, basically, they are being treated like toddlers having tantrums.. ignored until they peter out or just get a tad too bothersome. In this case, a bit of both.

I can only speak for the UK, but the Church of England changed its stance on the protesters camped outside Saint Paul's Cathedral.

[Phatscotty]

On November 12, Occupy SLC was evicted from Pioneer Park by police following orders from Mayor Ralph Becker. 18 people were arrested, and one cited.

OWS Nirvana - complete with 6 city workers carrying shovels to clean up

[PLAYER57832]

To get back to Occupy...

Seems the inevitable has happened. The adults have let the kids have their tantrum and now are moving on to the business of sending them to their rooms and cleaning up.

I have no idea what this post means. Are the police parents? Is shooting tear gas canisters at people the equivalent of telling them to clean up? Do you think that Occupy is fading out just because the media isn't all over it anymore?

There ARE real issues, but no one in power is going to listen to a bunch of folks camped out in a park, not really. They tolerate them, to a point, know that allowing them to exist and mostly burn themselves out is a far more effective way to be rid of them than to actually come down hard and object.

So, basically, they are being treated like toddlers having tantrums.. ignored until they peter out or just get a tad too bothersome. In this case, a bit of both.

I can only speak for the UK, but the Church of England changed its stance on the protesters camped outside Saint Paul's Cathedral.

How so? Also, does the Church of England retain much power today in England? In English government, specifically? Those who are not in power gain by garnering support from dissenters of the real power.

The reason the "children" analogy is/was used, both today and in the 60's is that many of these folks often wind up being heirs to the true business leaders, etc. Toddlers are allowed to "work it out", because parents know they need to learn to control their own tempers, etc .. to a point. Similarly, letting the "kids" have their say gives them practice, allows them to "get it out of their system"... until, at some future time, they themselves become the "parents". The key, for the "powers that be" as well as for parents is to exert enough control to contain and keep harm from happening, but not so much that you utterly stifle the child.

And, just like with children and parents, in society.. there is more than one method, combination of control/leniency, etc that can work.

[AndyDufresne]

Occupy will fade out because it's just a bunch of angry people bent on violence, not because they actually have values.

Occupy will fade because they aren't looking to get elected, like the Tea Party has more so been inclined to strive for.


--Andy

[BigBallinStalin]

To get back to Occupy...

Seems the inevitable has happened. The adults have let the kids have their tantrum and now are moving on to the business of sending them to their rooms and cleaning up.

I have no idea what this post means. Are the police parents? Is shooting tear gas canisters at people the equivalent of telling them to clean up? Do you think that Occupy is fading out just because the media isn't all over it anymore?

Occupy will fade out because it's just a bunch of angry people bent on violence, not because they actually have values.

Does NS say stuff like this because he wants to bait people or because he's stupid?

[Night Strike]

To get back to Occupy...

Seems the inevitable has happened. The adults have let the kids have their tantrum and now are moving on to the business of sending them to their rooms and cleaning up.

I have no idea what this post means. Are the police parents? Is shooting tear gas canisters at people the equivalent of telling them to clean up? Do you think that Occupy is fading out just because the media isn't all over it anymore?

Occupy will fade out because it's just a bunch of angry people bent on violence, not because they actually have values.

Does NS say stuff like this because he wants to bait people or because he's stupid?

Neither.

[Symmetry]

To get back to Occupy...

Seems the inevitable has happened. The adults have let the kids have their tantrum and now are moving on to the business of sending them to their rooms and cleaning up.

I have no idea what this post means. Are the police parents? Is shooting tear gas canisters at people the equivalent of telling them to clean up? Do you think that Occupy is fading out just because the media isn't all over it anymore?

There ARE real issues, but no one in power is going to listen to a bunch of folks camped out in a park, not really. They tolerate them, to a point, know that allowing them to exist and mostly burn themselves out is a far more effective way to be rid of them than to actually come down hard and object.

So, basically, they are being treated like toddlers having tantrums.. ignored until they peter out or just get a tad too bothersome. In this case, a bit of both.

I can only speak for the UK, but the Church of England changed its stance on the protesters camped outside Saint Paul's Cathedral.

How so? Also, does the Church of England retain much power today in England? In English government, specifically? Those who are not in power gain by garnering support from dissenters of the real power.

The reason the "children" analogy is/was used, both today and in the 60's is that many of these folks often wind up being heirs to the true business leaders, etc. Toddlers are allowed to "work it out", because parents know they need to learn to control their own tempers, etc .. to a point. Similarly, letting the "kids" have their say gives them practice, allows them to "get it out of their system"... until, at some future time, they themselves become the "parents". The key, for the "powers that be" as well as for parents is to exert enough control to contain and keep harm from happening, but not so much that you utterly stifle the child.

And, just like with children and parents, in society.. there is more than one method, combination of control/leniency, etc that can work.

I guess you have a few questions here. Most can probably be cleared up by looking at the thread I made on OWS and St Pauls. Here. And yes, the Church of England still has power within the House of Lords, so is a part of the British government.

And of course, the head of the Church of England is also the head of state, but that's mainly a formality rather than a serious issue.

[PLAYER57832]

I guess you have a few questions here. Most can probably be cleared up by looking at the thread I made on OWS and St Pauls. .

ah, OK. Yes, a slightly different issue. The church absolutely has a single moral stance and tradition. They are not the "powers that be" of which I referred... and, also, England would differ significantly from the US. (English child rearing differs from US rearing as well )


Besides, my comment is more a matter of somewhat ironic frustration than anything else. I wish they could be effective, but this just is not going to do anything. And, sadly, may wind up putting a bit of a shadow on the real issues they are attempting to raise.

[BigBallinStalin]

To get back to Occupy...

Seems the inevitable has happened. The adults have let the kids have their tantrum and now are moving on to the business of sending them to their rooms and cleaning up.

I have no idea what this post means. Are the police parents? Is shooting tear gas canisters at people the equivalent of telling them to clean up? Do you think that Occupy is fading out just because the media isn't all over it anymore?

Occupy will fade out because it's just a bunch of angry people bent on violence, not because they actually have values.

Does NS say stuff like this because he wants to bait people or because he's stupid?

Neither.

I'm having a difficult time understanding the immense profundity of your position. According to you, the OWS movement will dissipate because they're all violent, angry people, and because they don't have values.

Please explain why all people of the OWS movement have no values, and please show how all of them are violent and angry.

[AndyDufresne]

Occupy will fade out because it's just a bunch of angry people bent on violence, not because they actually have values.

Does NS say stuff like this because he wants to bait people or because he's stupid?

Neither.

I'm having a difficult time understanding the immense profundity of your position. According to you, the OWS movement will dissipate because they're all violent, angry people, and because they don't have values.

Please explain why all people of the OWS movement have no values, and please show how all of them are violent and angry.

Undoubtedly he must be referring to...


[spoiler=The Case]Exhibit A - Violence and Anger





Exhibit B - Lack of Values

I refer you to the definition of a Zombie: "...mindless, reanimated corpses with a hunger for human flesh, and in some cases, human brains in particular."

I see no values here.

==========

Check and mate, Bigballinstallin, check and mate.[/spoiler]


--Andy

[notyou2]

If NS is correct, why haven't all the OWS people raped, pummeled and murdered each other?

[BigBallinStalin]

If NS is correct, why haven't all the OWS people raped, pummeled and murdered each other?

Because judging from the recent evidence, zombies don't rape, pummel, and murder each other.

<phew>

Another case solved by NS. People of CC, sleep well tonight.

[Phatscotty]

This is what happens when U Do It Wrong....Do It Wrong.....Do It Wrong!

[jimboston]

*Why do they talk about "decreased" funding for education... primary and student loan (college) funding??? This may be true for the past year or two... but over the past 20 years funding for both area has increased dramatically. Their facts are simply wrong here.
.

Not in PA, that is for sure. Also, aid has not kept up with rising costs. I wonder where you got your data?

You are talking about college aid... At that level the cost has risen faster than the aid. Still the cost for state schools (which are often fine institutions) is dramatically lower than the cost for private university.

In the elementary and secondary level the amount of money gov't pays EVERYWHERE in the US is higher (in both adjusted and unadjusted dollars) on a per-child basis than it was in 1990. Also (while we are at it) the amount spent per child in this country (the US) is higher than in any other country.

So no... Education funding has not decreased.