HA's 200th Tourney (Josko.ri Wins)

[agentcom]

Im a freemium. I have limited experience/number of games.

...

Im not sure if I have a point. Maybe this: If you pick a freemium with limited rating at this point, its on your own head if you expect a walk-over. - All of us have weaseled through 11 rounds at this point, so there is a pretty good risk of running into someone with a reasonable amount of talent for the game, even if their stats may not be impressive.

The second point is that Ive found it very interesting being prodded towards new maps in this tourney simply by the long shot of winning a medal from it. Challenging as well, yes, but its quite rewarding to pick up a new map fast enough to tip someone that thought it would be easy points. I recommend it to all freemiums. - Study the map well before you begin your first turn. If in doubt read the discussion thread on the map.

My thoughts exactly. I've had a blast and tried bunches of maps I've never played before. Only played the twice on the same map two times in this tourney (by mistake). Granted, I wouldn't be too happy if I was forced to play three games on Arms Race or another map, I'd never played before. But If you wait 3, 4, 5 days into the round you get what you get. As I said before: There has been plenty of heads up in when the next round will start. And there's been plenty of delays even to those supposed start times. I can't imagine that a freemium couldn't clear up 1 or even 3 slots if they stopped joining games when HA makes that announcement. (Or only played arranged RT games.)

Leehar, obviously you weren't complaining. You're rank shows that you'd probably have the odds on most of us on any given map. But I (and others) are taking less sympathy towards those that don't pay attention to the tourney and more sympathy towards HA who is doing a commendable job of making a very enjoyable tourney. If those folks really want to play on certain maps, HA has given TONS of opportunities to either request their own maps or just free up some of their games and join at the beginning of the round.

[HighlanderAttack]

I have seen three or four complaints out of 385 or so advancing players so really I am not concerned. I think there was about 20 requests for maps though my wall and the thread that I used. I think the players putting more effort to pay attention to the thread probably deserve more than the ones that end up bitching because they did not get their way. Personally I could care less either way. This is a tourney and you must win to advance weather it is on doodle, classic, or posion rome--or God forbid the damn hive. I will take down the games on Friday or Saturday.

[HighlanderAttack]

Tuesday--I will officially take down games on Friday or Saturday

[agentcom]

I think the players putting more effort to pay attention to the thread probably deserve more than the ones that end up bitching because they did not get their way. Personally I could care less either way. This is a tourney and you must win to advance weather it is on doodle, classic, or posion rome--or God forbid the damn hive.

As someone who has read all 4,803 posts this tourney, I completely agree!

P.S. another tip for those of you who don't want to be checking the forum all of the time. You can use game finder to look for active games in this tournament. If there are few or no more active games, then it's probably time to clear some room for the next round.

[poptartpsycho18]

The second point is that Ive found it very interesting being prodded towards new maps in this tourney simply by the long shot of winning a medal from it. Challenging as well, yes, but its quite rewarding to pick up a new map fast enough to tip someone that thought it would be easy points. I recommend it to all freemiums. - Study the map well before you begin your first turn. If in doubt read the discussion thread on the map.

Leehar, obviously you weren't complaining. If those folks really want to play on certain maps, HA has given TONS of opportunities to either request their own maps or just free up some of their games and join at the beginning of the round.

First: Tviorr, that's always sound advice regarding maps and good for you for taking initiative. I personally am way too busy right not to give attention to learning new map nuances so that's my reason for taking only the most familiar maps to play.

Second: agentcom said it rightly; the comments were clearly directed towards those who are having problems that can easily be cleared up by joining games faster. It's not as if the solutions aren't there, they're just not being utilized, and after so many rounds the lesson should have been learned.

And it's not too hard to read the thread. It's either a bunch of "I won" posts or HA giving info.

[stevehopkins]

I'm one out of three this round.

[VicFontaine]

Game 9904841 --> 3-0. Thanks, HA!

[Leehar]

I'm not afraid to stick up for my pov, so again I'll reiterate:
To me it seems frankly unfair that at the latter stages of the round, there are only option 1 maps left available to choose from, and those exceeding the minimum req's mentioned at the start of the tournament.(5, quoted below)
I'm not complaining because I didn't get my way, I'm raising an issue because others ways seem to take a disproportionate share of the maps available for use. I remain of the view that there should at least be an equivalent share of classics and randoms available at all times, and if there are more popular (as obvious) then the player choices of the select few that they should represent that adjusted proportion.
Going back to you Agent, I don't want people to play on the certain maps that they want, I want them to be able to avoid playing on uncertain maps that they don't want. A small yet distinct difference.

Players choice--maps chosen with players choice of settings-up to five different per round
Classic-CC-auto-seq-chained-esc-sunny-have to have the original map (well close to it)
Random-auto-seq-chained-esc-sunny
Arms Race-auto-seq-unlimited-no spoils-sunny-have to have my favorite map in it

Finally, I'd just like to add that neither right now am I interested on pushing my view on to HA. It's his tourney and it's his prerogative to run it how he chooses. I've just said my piece, and am prepared to live with it.
I feel it provides a negative experience if at the latter part of a round all thats left for players to choose from is the player-choice maps that some chose and force to an inconsiderable amount of people undeserving of being subjected to these largely unfair options.

I felt it would be a much more positive environment if there still remained at the end of the round, some standard map options for players (rather then the unpalatable options we have available currently), and thats about that. If you believe otherwise then that remains your prerogative, and if it's unmanageable due to logistical hassles, then so be it, but I continue to feel it detracts from a positive tournament experience.

[agentcom]

I'm not afraid to stick up for my pov, so again I'll reiterate:
To me it seems frankly unfair that at the latter stages of the round, there are only option 1 maps left available to choose from, and those exceeding the minimum req's mentioned at the start of the tournament.(5, quoted below)

Players choice--maps chosen with players choice of settings-up to five different per round
Classic-CC-auto-seq-chained-esc-sunny-have to have the original map (well close to it)
Random-auto-seq-chained-esc-sunny
Arms Race-auto-seq-unlimited-no spoils-sunny-have to have my favorite map in it

Very good point. I had completely forgotten about that post. I see two ways of reading that rule: (1) that those maps WILL be available or (2) that those maps will be available at the START of the round. HA seems to have taken position two. I still think that if you feel that strongly about what map to play on, it's pretty easy to get your choice. But your post certainly makes me less certain that the status quo is "the way things should be."

[woopintroysbutt]

Game 9904580 won - On to Round 12.

[michaelthefinn]

game 9904822.... i won =) and lost the other two lol

[thehippo8]

how many are left in this thing?

If you read your pm HA stated 385 players were left.

And if anyone has 2 losses I'd love to knock you out. 1 game open. Will play Circus Maximus, Napoleonic Europe(escalating). pm me. nothing better than giving a player a 3rd loss.

And in case you were wondering you can't play me as I am out!

[Leehar]

I'm not afraid to stick up for my pov, so again I'll reiterate:
To me it seems frankly unfair that at the latter stages of the round, there are only option 1 maps left available to choose from, and those exceeding the minimum req's mentioned at the start of the tournament.(5, quoted below)

Players choice--maps chosen with players choice of settings-up to five different per round
Classic-CC-auto-seq-chained-esc-sunny-have to have the original map (well close to it)
Random-auto-seq-chained-esc-sunny
Arms Race-auto-seq-unlimited-no spoils-sunny-have to have my favorite map in it

Very good point. I had completely forgotten about that post. I see two ways of reading that rule: (1) that those maps WILL be available or (2) that those maps will be available at the START of the round. HA seems to have taken position two. I still think that if you feel that strongly about what map to play on, it's pretty easy to get your choice. But your post certainly makes me less certain that the status quo is "the way things should be."

Again, I'm probably not being clear enough, but I repeat, I don't feel that strongly about which maps to play and don't want a specific choice.
All I'd prefer is that the choices of others (And an excessive proportion of them) don't dwarf the other 3 basic map tenets mentioned at the beginning of the tourney?
(Perhaps I was wrong to mention other standard maps, but to me those go side-by-side with the classic...)

[agentcom]

I'm not afraid to stick up for my pov, so again I'll reiterate:
To me it seems frankly unfair that at the latter stages of the round, there are only option 1 maps left available to choose from, and those exceeding the minimum req's mentioned at the start of the tournament.(5, quoted below)

Players choice--maps chosen with players choice of settings-up to five different per round
Classic-CC-auto-seq-chained-esc-sunny-have to have the original map (well close to it)
Random-auto-seq-chained-esc-sunny
Arms Race-auto-seq-unlimited-no spoils-sunny-have to have my favorite map in it

Very good point. I had completely forgotten about that post. I see two ways of reading that rule: (1) that those maps WILL be available or (2) that those maps will be available at the START of the round. HA seems to have taken position two. I still think that if you feel that strongly about what map to play on, it's pretty easy to get your choice. But your post certainly makes me less certain that the status quo is "the way things should be."

Again, I'm probably not being clear enough, but I repeat, I don't feel that strongly about which maps to play and don't want a specific choice.
All I'd prefer is that the choices of others (And an excessive proportion of them) don't dwarf the other 3 basic map tenets mentioned at the beginning of the tourney?
(Perhaps I was wrong to mention other standard maps, but to me those go side-by-side with the classic...)

I'm using the generic "you." As I said in a previous post, I know you're not say that YOU are having trouble because those maps aren't available for YOU. Perhaps, I'm not being clear enough ... because I was saying that I understand where YOU are coming from.

My point in the sentence you emphasized, was that if "people" really care about such things, it is pretty easy for them to get what they want.

[GeneralAnestetic]

i'm glad to see leehar arguing the same points i did to highlander without highlander calling him a little bitch.

but clearly highlander's not about making his tournament fair, or being an impartial tournament organizer.

I'm not afraid to stick up for my pov, so again I'll reiterate:
To me it seems frankly unfair that at the latter stages of the round, there are only option 1 maps left available to choose from, and those exceeding the minimum req's mentioned at the start of the tournament.(5, quoted below)
I'm not complaining because I didn't get my way, I'm raising an issue because others ways seem to take a disproportionate share of the maps available for use. I remain of the view that there should at least be an equivalent share of classics and randoms available at all times, and if there are more popular (as obvious) then the player choices of the select few that they should represent that adjusted proportion.
Going back to you Agent, I don't want people to play on the certain maps that they want, I want them to be able to avoid playing on uncertain maps that they don't want. A small yet distinct difference.

Players choice--maps chosen with players choice of settings-up to five different per round
Classic-CC-auto-seq-chained-esc-sunny-have to have the original map (well close to it)
Random-auto-seq-chained-esc-sunny
Arms Race-auto-seq-unlimited-no spoils-sunny-have to have my favorite map in it

Finally, I'd just like to add that neither right now am I interested on pushing my view on to HA. It's his tourney and it's his prerogative to run it how he chooses. I've just said my piece, and am prepared to live with it.
I feel it provides a negative experience if at the latter part of a round all thats left for players to choose from is the player-choice maps that some chose and force to an inconsiderable amount of people undeserving of being subjected to these largely unfair options.

I felt it would be a much more positive environment if there still remained at the end of the round, some standard map options for players (rather then the unpalatable options we have available currently), and thats about that. If you believe otherwise then that remains your prerogative, and if it's unmanageable due to logistical hassles, then so be it, but I continue to feel it detracts from a positive tournament experience.

[Tviorr]

Crap.

1) 12% of the games that went up this round were Classic games.

That should be enough, especially as other relatively simple maps are reasonably well represented. Upping the percentage of Classic maps would end up forcing players to play on maps that are simpler than they like. - Im sure that Im not the only one that will only play a second Classic map if I havent won one yet. Seemingly a number of players are interested in going for the GA medal for winning on most maps. Only one can win and most of us are likely kidding ourselves, but the journey is fun nonetheless. - The point relevant to this discussion is that while a number of players likely take more than "their share" (what does that even mean), a number of players shy away from the classic map, because most players that like diversity will have had their fill of that by this point.

2) Fairness... A fair tournament. What are you talking about.

Its not "fair" to make a tournament simple. - Its not fair to make it complex either. - Fairness doesnt really enter into that. Its simply irrellevant to the complexity of the tournament.

3) Impartial ..... again.... its not impartial to make a lot of simple maps or a lot of classic maps. - Would you consider it impartial if HA made a round of ALL classic maps??? HA shows impartiality and concern for the players by giving them influence on the maps available so far every round to my memory. - Changing the tourney to suit the whims of those who complain the loudest shouldnt be confused with impartiality.

4) Fairness and impartiality aside. Any tourney organizer sets up the tourney more or less to his or her liking. - If the tourney is hard or complex or simple, thats part of the tourney. If you dont know ahead of time which maps you will play or for that matter which choices of maps are available... then thats part of the tourney. If there are more choices at the beginning of the round than later, then thats part of the tourney. Some of this may challenge new players or freemiums more than long time players. - Yes, and so what. - Its part of the damn tourney.

Ultimately skill and experience will play a part in who advances and who wins. - Thats the nature of a tournament. - Otherwise we could just flip a coin for each game. - Would that be fairer. - Not really. - More random, certainly. Well completely random, in fact. That would have luck deciding the outcome exclusively instead of luck playing a significant, though not always decisive part.

5) Players are responsible for playing the tourney, not setting it up. - If they arent happy with the setup, they can of course suggest changes, but its common courtesy to make it suggestions and do it in a fairly polite tone. - Lehar seems to have the grasp of that. Certain others could learn from him. - Ultimately if players are not happy with the setup of a tourney, they can choose not to play in the tourney or for that matter setup their own tourney in what they consider a fair and impartial manner. - Then they can hope that people dont complain about every little choice they make, but I wouldnt count on it.

I apologize if my tone is deteriorating as well. Im afraid that was as polite and friendly as I managed to make it.

[drunkmonkey]

i'm glad to see leehar arguing the same points i did to highlander without highlander calling him a little bitch.

but clearly highlander's not about making his tournament fair, or being an impartial tournament organizer.

If you'd quit crying like one, he probably wouldn't call you one.

[gradybridges]

. This is a tourney and you must win to advance weather it is on doodle, classic, or posion rome--or God forbid the damn hive. I will take down the games on Friday or Saturday.

I wonder how many complaints you'd get if every game next round was hive? Can't believe you put some Hive games in the tourney and that people actually joined them.

[ElricTheGreat]

How about everyone takes a deep breath and get a life ...

HA gets to set the rules for his tourneys and nobody is forced to join them

This is my 1st HA tourney and have really enjoyed the ride ...

For those of you that feel it has been a little too bumpy ... jump off the bus at the next stop or just ask for the door to be opened and hop off now!

If you like the general feel of the tourney but would prefer a different set of rules no problem .. get off your a$$ and start your own !

HA seems to always announce his intentions well in advance and if real life gets in the way of things so be it ... you make your choices now live with the consequences of them.

Man guys ... get over it .. these are GAMES !!!

HA ... thank you for a great job ... keep up the great work and keep your tradition going!

[HighlanderAttack]

GeneralAnestetic since this guy wants to put part of what I said to him in the thread, if anyone wants the real story pm me and I will send you the conversation and the ruling by Night Strike over his complaints. I prefer to keep them private so I won't add slander to my thread.


GeneralAnestetic --this is an official warning--if you want to bring any more baiting to my thread you will be officially kicked out of this tourney. I really like how you add what you want to the post and not post the whole story.

[Clanlord Carl]

and i'd just like to thank HA for organising the most fun tourney ever.....amazing effort and hate to think the amount of work it took.....

[HighlanderAttack]

Just so all the players know--I do always take into consideration opinions and feeling --that does not mean I will change the way I do things or the way my mind works. Even though I only received 4 concerns/complaints about the games for this round out of almost 400 players--basically 1% I do understand the wanting for arms race, random, and classic. I did not go back and looks but some have on how many I actually made this round of them, but I will try and add a few more next round. The thing about this round is I had a lot of player choice requests on my wall and in the thread due to the delayed timing of making the round and those are the ones that were made. I could do all Hive one round and really make this a complaint fest if I wanted to but I am not into causing pain. Most players expressed concerns in a good way and I responded in a good way to them in my opinion. I will always do that. Usually you can't piss me off unless you are in a multi player game with me (oh hell then there is a good chance you will --) Anyway-when the games are made and ready that is what will be out there--I see no reason to make many more games that I will have to go back and delete just because someone does not want to play on them. That being said as I have stated I will do my best to make the majority of you happy knowing there is no way to make everyone happy.

[Leehar]

Thanks HA, you continue to make good tourneys better

And now knowing that HA will try to do his best as always while continuing to wrack up tournament titles at a rate I could never catch up with, we can all move on to playing the games as Elric so vociferously noted

I'm still bummed at advancing with 2 games won this time around then my normal 1, but at least I should still be advancing comfortably.

[catnipdreams]

Unfortunately, I lost all three of my games this round, so I won't have the pleasure of any more games with y'all in this tourney...

HA, thank you for all your effort, and a great tournament. I enjoyed the variety of maps and have absolutely no complaints about the selection offered. It would have been nice if you could have provided me with better dice, and some strategy advice, but oh well, can't have everything!

[waiting4oct]

phew... Eeked through to round 12 after staring 0-2 this round. Game 9904727