Occupy Wall Street: Support or Oppose? (OWS vs. Nativity)

[saxitoxin]

Taco Bell, Pizza Hut and KFC are also not independent companies. They are brand names/logos that correspond to operating divisions of Yum Brands International, Inc. For instance, "Taco Bell" is the public-facing name of the Mexican Foods Division of Yum Brands. There is no such thing as the Taco Bell corporation.

iTunes is also not a corporation. iTunes is an operating division - in this case tied to a specific product - of Apple Computers. Braeburn Capital, the holding company Apple owns to move around its real assets and help it to avoid paying property taxes, is also just an operating division of Apple.

[saxitoxin]

Courtesy the YUM! Brands International, Inc. website (I can't demonstrate this with Unilever as they have more than 50 profit-centers [AKA operating divisions] unlike Yum's three) -

[natty dread]

Ok, fair enough Saxi. But I still don't see how the protesters are at fault if a corporation latches on to their movement...

Even the article you linked had comments from protesters who were "uncomfortable" with the idea of Unilever using their cause for profit. So I just think it's a bit unfair to claim the whole movement has "sold out"...

[Lootifer]

The Tea Party has a few openings. We are actively scouting the top 1% of the 99%ers and when we recruit them we will have effectively made them the 98%ers and smashed the only message they ever had into oblivion.

Nobody will challenge the 2% after that.

Just an FYI: 1% + 1% of 99% =/= 2%.

A true 1%'er wouldn't have madde that mistake.

[Phatscotty]

The Tea Party has a few openings. We are actively scouting the top 1% of the 99%ers and when we recruit them we will have effectively made them the 98%ers and smashed the only message they ever had into oblivion.

Nobody will challenge the 2% after that.

Just an FYI: 1% + 1% of 99% =/= 2%.

A true 1%'er wouldn't have madde that mistake.

Always round up! (1%er 101 )

[Lootifer]

Yeh but 1%'er 201 says that it takes good "cents" to make good dollars. SO ROUND AT YOUR PERIL YOU 99.01%'er! (thats the bottom of the 1% fyi).

[saxitoxin]

Ok, fair enough Saxi. But I still don't see how the protesters are at fault if a corporation latches on to their movement...

Even the article you linked had comments from protesters who were "uncomfortable" with the idea of Unilever using their cause for profit. So I just think it's a bit unfair to claim the whole movement has "sold out"...

This is just the tip of the iceberg. So much stinks with this "movement" and has from day one it's unreal. The fact that one of the world's wickedest companies just "endorsed" the "movement" is a funny anecdote but not the base of the more ominous machinations that are bizarrely out-in-the-open. Another funny anecdote are the three stories I read in yesterday's Tribune Media, Inc.-owned Los Angeles Times breathlessly telling me the media were ignoring the Occupy movement.

I don't want to get into all that here, though, because it will spiral out of control. I'll just say this "uprising" is as stage-managed as the feel-good revolution that everyone was cheering on in Egypt that brought a pro-U.S. military dictatorship to power. (Remember, that one a few months back? Everyone's forgot because we've already moved on to the next feel-good, made-for-TV event.) Or any of the other feel-good, made-for-TV, David-vs-Goliath battles that read like a script out of Hollywood (they read that way because they are) and are getting ass-blasted up the public's butt so fast no one has time to remember where the last one ended and the new one began.

If people make the choice to be played like dupes and fools they don't get a Free Pass on the consequences of that decision. We can't reasonably be expected to avoid firing on the enemy's soldiers just because they're conscripts or idiots.*


* this is a colloquialism, not an exhortation of violence

[Phatscotty]

Yeh but 1%'er 201 says that it takes good "cents" to make good dollars. SO ROUND AT YOUR PERIL YOU 99.01%'er! (thats the bottom of the 1% fyi).

98.01%

[saxitoxin]

THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT FOR THIS THREAD.

SAXI OUT.

[Army of GOD]

saxi, do you have a corporate sponsor?

[spurgistan]

I don't see how sitting around and being apathetic about everything is somehow being part of the solution.

What I value most about the Occupy Wall Street in general is that they're annoyed at the current situation (possibly the status quo). What's interesting is that there is no political party for them (as far as I can tell), so we have this segment of the population which isn't really being represented.

I identify with them on that level, but I at least got Ron Paul advocating many things which I agree with, but still, between me and "them," there might be much agreement.

I definitely agree. I think I identify with them more than you do, but the point is that if 99% of Americans actual cared as much as these protestors (and at least attempted to educate themselves about things), we'd probably be solving a lot more problems (and doing it better, too). And I also think there's a lot of common ground to be found.

I agree with the message and loathe the messengers.

So you're "if 99% of Americans actual[ly] cared as much as they protestors" comment rings false (or at least discordant) to me. These OWS fucks are... well... fucks.

The OWS people are standing up for the "99%" in the same way that a bunch of rich white people who protest racism represent "African Americans." Except it's worse. Because most of the OWS fucks are hypocrit(e)s.

How? If we were governmental bodies and creating policies at the behest of the richest 1%, then we would be hypocrites. If we were protesting scholarships for being too generous, we would be hypocrites. But we're not. We're people, not "government." Even us rich white kids, which I know you don't care, but don't comprise all of the movement (I am a rich white "kid," though I feel like you got somewhere around 7 years on me) If you're trying to say that we buy things from corporations and yet protest "corporations," I feel like we're being reductionist. Corporations don't need to control politicians. That's not like, an iron-clad rule of capitalism - however, it's the system we have. If corporations didn't run Washington, we would be fine with them.

Anyways, explain how OWS kids are hypocrites, and Tea Party ("We want lower taxes for us, and welfare cuts for people who aren't") are not.

In conclusion - We elected Barack Obama president because we thought he'd be making fundamental changes to the way government works. Not make it socialist, or what have you, just try and wrest it from being a place to put cronies and yesmen. By and large, he's failed to deliver (I give his administration around 20% of the blame, Democrats in Congress another 25, and the balance to Republicans in Congress) and we're annoyed about that.

[Phatscotty]

Elect better people (like the Tea Party started to do). You think Ron Paul serves the 1%??? He serves the 100%, and we need more people like him, and that's what this is all about. OWS people can steal this.

[Phatscotty]

And f*ck scotty, I'M NOT ON YOUR SIDE

You will be! You...will be.....

[Baron Von PWN]

Meh, I'm very skeptical. I suspect these guys will about as effective as the anti-globalization types. Make allot of noise, impassion some highschoolers and then fade away.

[saxitoxin]

SAXI'S COMING BACK / CLEAR THE RUNWAY

In conclusion - We elected Barack Obama president because we thought he'd be making fundamental changes to the way government works. Not make it socialist, or what have you, just try and wrest it from being a place to put cronies and yesmen. By and large, he's failed to deliver

LOL, but in a few months - long after the "Occupy Wall Street" protests have decamped due to cold weather and been totally forgotten - you'll all pack-up with your Ben & Jerry's branded Occupy Wall Street promotional handout t-shirts, clutch a brightly colored and professionally designed piece of campaign literature paid for by AT&T, grab a couple of the leftover free samples of complimentary GMO-infused granola bars you got from some Quaker street team members at the "protest", and politely queue in line to vote for Barack Obama again - you won't shove, you won't talk loudly ... just like last time it will be nice, single-file, orderly line under the smiling, watchful gaze of your friendly local police.

Have fun with it! Just don't take it too seriously. Because this is all nonsense. It's not Seattle '99, it's not Toronto '10, it's not the October Revolution. It's just nonsense. A stage-play. I think, deep down, you know that.

SAXI OUT

[Nobunaga]

Meh, I'm very skeptical. I suspect these guys will about as effective as the anti-globalization types. Make allot of noise, impassion some highschoolers and then fade away.

... But before they fade away, they will be milked to the last by the media and the Dems as a "response to the Tea Party".

... The jealousy... it would be ugly if it weren't so funny.

...

[Nobunaga]

... Just saw somebody voted, "They have a point".

... Pray tell me what that point is. I'm dying to know (because they themselves seem rather in the dark about it).

...

[Lootifer]

Or they could be just against genetic engineering...?

/shrug

NINJA DELETE!

[BigBallinStalin]

In conclusion - We elected Barack Obama president because we thought he'd be making fundamental changes to the way government works. Not make it socialist, or what have you, just try and wrest it from being a place to put cronies and yesmen. By and large, he's failed to deliver

LOL, but in a few months - long after the "Occupy Wall Street" protests have decamped due to cold weather and been totally forgotten - you'll all pack-up with your Ben & Jerry's branded Occupy Wall Street promotional handout t-shirts, clutch a brightly colored and professionally designed piece of campaign literature paid for by AT&T, grab a couple of the leftover free samples of complimentary GMO-infused granola bars you got from some Quaker street team members at the "protest", and politely queue in line to vote for Barack Obama again - you won't shove, you won't talk loudly ... just like last time it will be nice, single-file, orderly line under the smiling, watchful gaze of your friendly local police.

Have fun with it! Just don't take it too seriously. Because this is all nonsense. It's not Seattle '99, it's not Toronto '10, it's not the October Revolution. It's just nonsense. A stage-play. I think, deep down, you know that.

SAXI OUT

[Army of GOD]

saxi, how come your plane keeps changing?

[BigBallinStalin]

Or they could be just against genetic engineering...?

/shrug

NINJA DELETE!

NINJA DENIED.

[Phatscotty]

... Just saw somebody voted, "They have a point".

... Pray tell me what that point is. I'm dying to know (because they themselves seem rather in the dark about it).

...

It wasn't me, but I think there is a segment there that want to end the federal reserve. However that does not define the movement in any way so I can't get with them or award them "a point", but I do think it is a cool place for the Tea Party to get loud and turn on some light bulbs in the crowds. Perhaps they are not only homeless people, but people who are just finally in the early stages of waking up. Being the last to wake up should already tell you what kind of response they are going to have, especially at first.

[saxitoxin]

SAXI BACK / CLEAR THE RUNWAY



I forgot what I was gonna say.

SAXI OUT

[angola]

Video from NYC this morning: http://www.livestream.com/avaazwallstreet

Apparently the SWAT team is there. Because this wouldn't be America without bringing in the SWAT to go after peaceful protests. Will they start dropping bombs next?

[AndyDufresne]

I'm disappointed the Poll did not include a mixed option for 'Supp-ose'.

Apparently the SWAT team is there. Because this wouldn't be America without bringing in the SWAT to go after peaceful protests. Will they start dropping bombs next?

Obama is authorizing the use of drone strikes.


--Andy