Trench warfare 1917 [Quenched]

[Flapcake]

Trench warfare 1917.
Germany VS. England/France/USA

Map Name: Trench warfare 1917
Mapmaker(s): Flapcake - XML by Koontz1973
Number of Territories: 92 Map size 840x840
Special Features: 44 Neutral starters.
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made: Trench war was relentless and the soldier lived an nightmare every single day in the trenches, my intentions with this map is not to cover the entire war front, but to make an close up on the trenches and turn it in to that dogfight it was, therefore this map is about staying alive and wipe out your enemy, get out on the ohter side, wounded and exhausted, but to feel the sweet victory of the bloodiest battle.

Game play

Bonus structure.
Wilhelm II + 4
Paul von Hindenburg + 4
Erich Ludendorff + 3
German supply line (GSL) +3
German felt hospital (GFH) +2

Douglas Haig + 4
John J. Pershing + 4
Ferdinand Foch + 3
Allied supply line (ASL) +3
Allied felt hospital (AFH) +2

No man´s land: All troops (N1 --> N18) resets to 1 neutral at starts of next turn.
Shell Holes (S1 --> S4) Bombard closet Fox Hole.

Artillery
Bombardments (AC + GC)
AC1 --> Fox 7-9, EL1 + EL2
AC2 --> Fox 10-12, EL2 + EL3
GC1 --> Fox 1-3, DH1 + DH2
GC2 --> Fox 4-6, DH2 + EDH3

Airplane
Bombardments (A1+A2 - L1+L2)
A1 --> GC1, PVH, EL 4,5,6 + L1
A2 --> GC2, GSL, W + L2 (Not GSL4)
L1 --> AC1, JJP, DH 4,5 + A1
L2 --> AC2, ASL, FF + A2 (Not ASL1)

Foxhole Bonus.
Only works when hold on same side.
+ 2 for 3
+ 3 for 4
+ 5 for 6

Troop distribution
Players 2=15 areas + 62 neutral starters
Players 3=16 areas + 39 neutral starters
Players 4=12 areas + 44 neutral starters
Players 5=9 areas + 47 neutral starters
Players 6=8 areas + 44 neutral starters
Players 7=6 areas +50 neutral starters
Players 8=6 areas +44 neutral starters

XML CODE
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/1/27/3255536/T3.xml

Big
[bigimg]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2854/trenchmap201203.png[/bigimg]
Small
[bigimg]http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5255/trenchmap2012small03.png[/bigimg]



[spoiler=Draft history]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1644/trenchmap840x80004.png
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/1589 ... 40x800.png
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1589 ... 40x800.png
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3843 ... 40x800.png
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9849 ... 40x800.png
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7537/trench05840x800.png[/spoiler]

[isaiah40]

I'm really liking this idea as we've been needing a WW1 map for awhile now. Great start Flapcake!!

[AndyDufresne]

No-Mans land should have some shell holes to hang out in for protection against assaults by the opposing side from a the main offensive direction!


--Andy

[koontz1973]

2 points Flapcake, I know your other map has slowed down a little but I hope you are keeping an eye on it.
USA entered the was in 1917 and tanks made there first major appearance in 1916, so a slight title change is needed. Agree with Andy, shell holes are a must.
Where are the trenches, cannot see any?

[Flapcake]

No-Mans land should have some shell holes to hang out in for protection against assaults by the opposing side from a the main offensive direction!


--Andy

it a greate idea, i will work on a solution for that

2 points Flapcake, I know your other map has slowed down a little but I hope you are keeping an eye on it.
USA entered the was in 1917 and tanks made there first major appearance in 1916, so a slight title change is needed. Agree with Andy, shell holes are a must.
Where are the trenches, cannot see any?

Im still working on Kingdom of Denmark, cleaning pixels atm

The trenches are comming, im working on them separately
goin to make the front line on both sides one long trench

shell holes are a must, i can see that.

Thanks for the info, goin to change the titel, Im open for suggestions for it , it dont have to be Trench warfare 1917 (but it sounds cool )

[koontz1973]

A couple of title options for you. Use them at your own risk though.

Trench warfare 1917
All quiet on the western front (this is not a copyrighted title as it is now public domain)
Trenches
Where's my trench
The war to end all wars
Trench warfare 1914-1918

[AndyDufresne]

I remember looking up some images about trench warfare when the other map about trench warfare was in production. Maybe these could be of some assistance:

show

Also, because I am sucker for poetry, it me be worthwhile to read (and include a few lines) from some WWI poems by soldiers:

show

show

show

show

And dozens and dozens of other fine pieces of WWI poetry.


--Andy

[Flapcake]

I remember looking up some images about trench warfare when the other map about trench warfare was in production. Maybe these could be of some assistance:

Also, because I am sucker for poetry, it me be worthwhile to read (and include a few lines) from some WWI poems by soldiers:


And dozens and dozens of other fine pieces of WWI poetry.


--Andy

Thanks Andy, very nice for insperation, cool pictures, I'm sure I can clone model some of it beyond recognition and get it to fit in. and nice poems to, maby i can get some space some where for a coupels of lines

A couple of title options for you. Use them at your own risk though.

Trench warfare 1917
All quiet on the western front (this is not a copyrighted title as it is now public domain)
Trenches
Where's my trench
The war to end all wars
Trench warfare 1914-1918

Thanks Koontz, very good suggestions, all of them, and insperations for ohter ww1 maps
I think Il go for Trench warfare 1914-1918 as it covers nerly the hole war

[Flapcake]

so far so good

[bigimg]http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7537/trench05840x800.png[/bigimg]

[koontz1973]

Change airforce for the British to Royal Flying Corps.
Change luftwaffe to Imperial German Army Air Service.
trenches are looking very nice but sharp corners?
Add the flag of Austria-Hungary Empire to the german flag as it looks lonely.
Are you adding the shell holes later? cannot see them yet, like the trenches last time.

Nice work.

[ManBungalow]

Looks good but I have no idea what the No Man's Land bonus is about.

[isaiah40]

Change the US flag from the 50 star to the 48 star flag as Alaska and Hawaii were not added until 1959.

[Flapcake]

Looks good but I have no idea what the No Man's Land bonus is about.

No man´s land is a place where you cant hide, unless you are standing strong and i a cluster, shell holes for protection will be added

[Flapcake]

Change the US flag from the 50 star to the 48 star flag as Alaska and Hawaii were not added until 1959.

ofcourse, i found the flags on wiki, strange they used the newer flag

[ManBungalow]

Looks good but I have no idea what the No Man's Land bonus is about.

No man´s land is a place where you cant hide, unless you are standing strong and i a cluster, shell holes for protection will be added

From the image:
1=-1. 2=+1 -1=0 3=+2 -1=+1 and so on...

It just is confusing to me.

[Flapcake]

Looks good but I have no idea what the No Man's Land bonus is about.

No man´s land is a place where you cant hide, unless you are standing strong and i a cluster, shell holes for protection will be added

From the image:
1=-1. 2=+1 -1=0 3=+2 -1=+1 and so on...

It just is confusing to me.

cant se why ?

if you have 1 area you get -1 (you end up dead) if you have 2 area in line you get 0, you stay alive (+1-1=0) if you have 3 area in line you get +1 (+2-1=1) ect.

[koontz1973]

Its confusing because it is.
You need to reword as it is not good now. Cannot think of a way to word it right now, but natty has something to look at in Antarctica - each territ decays 1 but gives +2 for every 2 territs. This would be the way to go.
You could have it as -1 decay for each territ but +3 for 3 in a line.
or
first line in is a killer neutral but the centre with fox holes gives +1 if held.

[Flapcake]

Its confusing because it is.
You need to reword as it is not good now. Cannot think of a way to word it right now, but natty has something to look at in Antarctica - each territ decays 1 but gives +2 for every 2 territs. This would be the way to go.
You could have it as -1 decay for each territ but +3 for 3 in a line.
or
first line in is a killer neutral but the centre with fox holes gives +1 if held.

those sounds like good solutions, the gameplay are still for shape so more incomming suggestion are welcome

the idea is that the more you dare to enter no man land the stronger you get, but you are still in sigth of bombs

[gimil]

Your tanks remind of some of the behemoths from the 40k universe!

The Germans have what look like Leman Russ, without the turrent.


While the allies have Land Radiers!

[cairnswk]

Flapcake, i see you made some progress, well done.
However, the gameplay (from existing graphics) looks to me as though its going to be fought on land regions, rather than in the trenchs (except in no-mans' land). Is that your intention?

[Flapcake]

Your tanks remind of some of the behemoths from the 40k universe!

The Germans have what look like Leman Russ, without the turrent.


While the allies have Land Radiers!

Hi Gimil cool pictures my tanks are only tempenary, what im goin for are some think like thise

German captured russians and British Mk.IV tanks [bigimg]http://wio.ru/tank/ww1t/mk4germ.jpg[/bigimg]
but they also build tanks, A7V[bigimg]http://www.4600n200e.com/mediac/400_0/media/DIR_16708/Wotan.jpg[/bigimg][bigimg]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfzOQnZwo7bgKSpBYhl82Tsp3z1I6GWD1QE9HOQF9eEy_rWNuRgg[/bigimg]
Renault FT17, France, was also caputed by Germans (still in use by Afganistan 2005)[bigimg]http://www.4600n200e.com/mediac/400_0/media/DIR_17650/f3000b.jpg[/bigimg]

[Flapcake]

Flapcake, i see you made some progress, well done.
However, the gameplay (from existing graphics) looks to me as though its going to be fought on land regions, rather than in the trenchs (except in no-mans' land). Is that your intention?

Hi Cairnswk, as it is for now it could be that, but i havent fully set the gameplay yet, the trenches are quite small but it would be nice to integrate them more in the game

[jeraado]

I hope you'll forgive my many suggestions (this is my first time giving map feedback), but I think this could be a really interesting map and this prompted lots of thoughts.

May I suggest:
- As already suggested, add the imperial Austro-hungarian flag
- Removing the symmetry between the Allied and German trenches. Since both sides had different strategies in trench formation, it would be interesting to see on a map, and may provide some different strategic challenges. Since players will probably receive terts on both sides of the map it shouldn't give anyone an unfair advantage, and you could balance the bonuses without making them identical
- Artillery and mortars were pretty much the key to trench warfare. You could add these in to bombard perhaps no-mans-land and the front lines.
- You could also add machine guns to target specific terts
- As it stands, it looks like making a break over no-mans-land is really the only way to go between the lines. You could add a flanking movement which could bypass the bombardments to provide another option for travelling between the lines
- The airforce was mainly used in trench warfare for artillery spotting. Not sure if it is possible to code, but rather than attacking tanks, you could use the airforces to either allow artillery to bombard other artillery, or to prevent opposition artillery from bombarding (if someone held all airforce terts/aerial supremacy)
- Have you considered adding troop decay somewhere? To me a trench warfare map just screams out for that, either representing the disease and conditions on the front-lines or the destruction in no-man's-land

Also, and I apologise for this in advance, have you considered realigning the map so that the combatants are to the left and right, rather than top and bottom? This would better signify the geographic location of trench warfare along the franco-german lines.

I know a lot of my suggestions seem to focus on other features rather than the actual trenches, but I think that if you want to capture the feel of trench warfare in this map, it's really all about creating plenty of opportunities for destruction (bombardment), but ultimately the need for a brave but very costly break across no-mans-land to finish off the enemy. One last thought - when it comes to decorating the map remember that often the focus of these battles were around small landmarks, such as hills or buildings. They may have wound up heavily shelled, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for you to have some creative license in order to make it look as interesting a possible.

[koontz1973]

- The airforce was mainly used in trench warfare for artillery spotting. Not sure if it is possible to code, but rather than attacking tanks, you could use the airforces to either allow artillery to bombard other artillery, or to prevent opposition artillery from bombarding (if someone held all airforce terts/aerial supremacy)

Great idea but I will take it one step further.

Step one - add cannon to both sides. Cannot fire on anything but can attack same sides plane.
Normal territ starting neutral (say 2 for now)
Step two - from the plane, give it the ability to bombard all of the enemy's front lines.
Killer neutral set at 1 or 2.

This gives the appearance of a more natural war setting of having the planes spotting for the gunners. The killer neutral allows for being shot down.

Having the canon on both sides might negate having the tanks but have a play around.

[Flapcake]

I hope you'll forgive my many suggestions (this is my first time giving map feedback), but I think this could be a really interesting map and this prompted lots of thoughts.

May I suggest:
- As already suggested, add the imperial Austro-hungarian flag
- Removing the symmetry between the Allied and German trenches. Since both sides had different strategies in trench formation, it would be interesting to see on a map, and may provide some different strategic challenges. Since players will probably receive terts on both sides of the map it shouldn't give anyone an unfair advantage, and you could balance the bonuses without making them identical
- Artillery and mortars were pretty much the key to trench warfare. You could add these in to bombard perhaps no-mans-land and the front lines.
- You could also add machine guns to target specific terts
- As it stands, it looks like making a break over no-mans-land is really the only way to go between the lines. You could add a flanking movement which could bypass the bombardments to provide another option for travelling between the lines
- The airforce was mainly used in trench warfare for artillery spotting. Not sure if it is possible to code, but rather than attacking tanks, you could use the airforces to either allow artillery to bombard other artillery, or to prevent opposition artillery from bombarding (if someone held all airforce terts/aerial supremacy)
- Have you considered adding troop decay somewhere? To me a trench warfare map just screams out for that, either representing the disease and conditions on the front-lines or the destruction in no-man's-land

Also, and I apologise for this in advance, have you considered realigning the map so that the combatants are to the left and right, rather than top and bottom? This would better signify the geographic location of trench warfare along the franco-german lines.

I know a lot of my suggestions seem to focus on other features rather than the actual trenches, but I think that if you want to capture the feel of trench warfare in this map, it's really all about creating plenty of opportunities for destruction (bombardment), but ultimately the need for a brave but very costly break across no-mans-land to finish off the enemy. One last thought - when it comes to decorating the map remember that often the focus of these battles were around small landmarks, such as hills or buildings. They may have wound up heavily shelled, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for you to have some creative license in order to make it look as interesting a possible.

Hi Jeraado
I think my main idea was a specifik battle, like The Battle of the Marne 1914 (Englang+France vs. germany) maby I change the title
the map are in the remodeled stage and who knows where it ends, about the atack direction, I like the way it is now bedst, it gives a more atack forward and defence in a cornor feeling, rater than from side to side (ping pong)
The airforce was also used to drop bombs by hand on tanks and at atack over no man land, they had machinguns for air battle.
Lets se where this baby goes, Im always happy for info and suggstions for insperation.