London [All Cities] Riot 2011

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderator: Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.
User avatar
mandyb
Posts: 964
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:10 am

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by mandyb »

radiojake wrote:I've been thinking about this a little - The main difference I can see from these recent riots compared to other riots in history (from what I've been able to gather, obviously I wasn't present at any) is the distinct lack of reasoning behind the riots, short of acquiring and looting consumer goods. We've had race riots with particular communities fighting for more access to economic oppurtunity, but this riot didn't seem to have any of that - Infact, it's almost as if our consumer culture has something to do with it. We are bombarded with messages through advertising that tell us success if measure through consumer goods - Plasma TVs, Laptops, igadgets, designer clothing, etc, etc (all useless shit) - If there wasn't such emphasis on this consumer lifestyle, would people have looted the things that they are otherwise unable to attain?

All I know is if I happened to be involved in these riots, I would not have been stealing any Plasmas, but I sure as hell would have been smashing them to pieces - Over-consumption is the death-knell for our culture.

Just something I've been thinking about -


Anyone following the news would have heard this theory presented several times - even the x-factor has been blamed and it's not unlikely that consumer culture was, and is, a huge part of the problem.

People have come to expect something for nothing or in the case of x-factor, overnight success and fortune for a few nights 'work'. They see images of people enjoying a lifestyle they want to have despite the fact that it misrepresents the majority of society. It's all comes down to hunger for that which they do not have and being lured into a belief that they have every right to get it, and get it with minimal effort.

The violence and aggression that came along with the looting was frightening and the lack of humanity shown unbelievable. But, that aside, the parrells drawn between the theft during the riots and the governmen'ts underhandedness and expenses abuse are all too easy to see. An easy buck is something not only the poorer side of town wants.

There is no excuse for what happened, in my mind, and the perpetrators are the absolute dreggs of Britain...lowest of the low...but when you look at those supposedly setting an example, it can only be cause for more despair. And by example I mean both governmental and parental.
Thuggery has not been effectively responded to for too long...it's taken this large scale riot to get it talked about it, and who knows if anything good will actually come out of it...

But on a positive note, I still love Britain: for all the lawless and disgusting animals it has, there are many more decent people with proper values and morals - people who know right from wrong and forge ahead with whatever tools they have to make the best life they can for themselves and their children. People who can watch television without being hypnotised by it. And people who don't look to their government for everything.
Image
PLAYER57832
Posts: 3085
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Gender: Female
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by PLAYER57832 »

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Ministers plan removal of rioters’ benefits

Ministers are drawing up controversial plans to remove benefits from those convicted of taking part in the riots that engulfed England last week, in a move Liberal Democrats and independent experts have condemned as counter-productive and overly expensive.

Officials in Number 10 and the department for work and pensions are putting together plans for the harsh punishment of those found guilty of even the most minor infringements during the riots after a public petition calling for such a move gathered nearly 200,000 signatures.

David Cameron will lay the ground for such a move on Monday.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c8970a8c-c688 ... z1V3ZuHpNZ


I don't really understand this move, and here's why...if they can prove that an individual was one of the looters (which I would hope they would have to do in order to remove their benefits), then why not just prosecute them under the law? I don't understand the need for this. Or do they not actually have that level of proof and just want to make a general sweep?

Not only that, but it begins with the assumption that most of the rioters were "on the dole", which does not seem to be true. And, I have a hard time condemning a 12 year old for the rest of his life becuase he acted like a complete ass when he was 12, and goaded on by a mob of others.
Last edited by PLAYER57832 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
jbrettlip
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:30 pm
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by jbrettlip »

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Ministers plan removal of rioters’ benefits

Ministers are drawing up controversial plans to remove benefits from those convicted of taking part in the riots that engulfed England last week, in a move Liberal Democrats and independent experts have condemned as counter-productive and overly expensive.

Officials in Number 10 and the department for work and pensions are putting together plans for the harsh punishment of those found guilty of even the most minor infringements during the riots after a public petition calling for such a move gathered nearly 200,000 signatures.

David Cameron will lay the ground for such a move on Monday.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c8970a8c-c688 ... z1V3ZuHpNZ


I don't really understand this move, and here's why...if they can prove that an individual was one of the looters (which I would hope they would have to do in order to remove their benefits), then why not just prosecute them under the law? I don't understand the need for this. Or do they not actually have that level of proof and just want to make a general sweep?

Not only that, but it begins with the assumption that most of the rioters were "on the doll", which does not seem to be true. And, I have a hard time condemning a 12 year old for the rest of his life becuase he acted like a complete ass when he was 12, and goaded on by a mob of others.


Wow, I agree 100% with Player. Except whether they were on the doll, or a real live girl, I don't see the correlation.
Image
nothing wrong with a little bit of man on dog love.
User avatar
Phatscotty
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm
Gender: Male

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by Phatscotty »

jbrettlip wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Ministers plan removal of rioters’ benefits

Ministers are drawing up controversial plans to remove benefits from those convicted of taking part in the riots that engulfed England last week, in a move Liberal Democrats and independent experts have condemned as counter-productive and overly expensive.

Officials in Number 10 and the department for work and pensions are putting together plans for the harsh punishment of those found guilty of even the most minor infringements during the riots after a public petition calling for such a move gathered nearly 200,000 signatures.

David Cameron will lay the ground for such a move on Monday.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c8970a8c-c688 ... z1V3ZuHpNZ


I don't really understand this move, and here's why...if they can prove that an individual was one of the looters (which I would hope they would have to do in order to remove their benefits), then why not just prosecute them under the law? I don't understand the need for this. Or do they not actually have that level of proof and just want to make a general sweep?

Not only that, but it begins with the assumption that most of the rioters were "on the doll", which does not seem to be true. And, I have a hard time condemning a 12 year old for the rest of his life becuase he acted like a complete ass when he was 12, and goaded on by a mob of others.


Wow, I agree 100% with Player. Except whether they were on the doll, or a real live girl, I don't see the correlation.


it's "on the dole".

This guy says a lot of the rioters are drug dealers and gang-bangers, and I have seen a few articles no talking about gangs thriving in the riots.
User avatar
jbrettlip
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:30 pm
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by jbrettlip »

Of course there will be part of the criminal element out there. And since they are organized and focused (go take tv's etc) they will profit. That is why a "looters shot on sight" strategy would have worked well.
Image
nothing wrong with a little bit of man on dog love.
User avatar
Phatscotty
Posts: 3714
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm
Gender: Male

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by Phatscotty »

jbrettlip wrote:Of course there will be part of the criminal element out there. And since they are organized and focused (go take tv's etc) they will profit. That is why a "looters shot on sight" strategy would have worked well.


nagerous wrote:
Image
User avatar
saxitoxin
Posts: 13415
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:01 am
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by saxitoxin »

After previously offering to deploy the Indian Army to London, India - the world's largest democracy - is now calling for UN Security Council action against the UK regime.

India's Ambassador to the United Nations Hardeep Singh Puri says the UN Security Council (UNSC) has not yet examined the United Kingdom's violent crackdown on protests in Britain.

Commenting on the silence of the UN over the large-scale violence recently employed by the UK government against protesters, the Indian UN envoy said the permanent members of the Security Council have not yet attended to the issue, IRNA reported Tuesday.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/194203.html
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
User avatar
mandyb
Posts: 964
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:10 am

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by mandyb »

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Ministers plan removal of rioters’ benefits

Ministers are drawing up controversial plans to remove benefits from those convicted of taking part in the riots that engulfed England last week, in a move Liberal Democrats and independent experts have condemned as counter-productive and overly expensive.

Officials in Number 10 and the department for work and pensions are putting together plans for the harsh punishment of those found guilty of even the most minor infringements during the riots after a public petition calling for such a move gathered nearly 200,000 signatures.

David Cameron will lay the ground for such a move on Monday.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c8970a8c-c688 ... z1V3ZuHpNZ


I don't really understand this move, and here's why...if they can prove that an individual was one of the looters (which I would hope they would have to do in order to remove their benefits), then why not just prosecute them under the law? I don't understand the need for this. Or do they not actually have that level of proof and just want to make a general sweep?

Not only that, but it begins with the assumption that most of the rioters were "on the dole", which does not seem to be true. And, I have a hard time condemning a 12 year old for the rest of his life becuase he acted like a complete ass when he was 12, and goaded on by a mob of others.

I thought it was only suggested that they were going to remove transport benefits from those found guilty....and that that would be given back should they prove themselves 'law-abiding citizens'....

As for those on the dole, I would love to see real percentages of those involved and their state of employment - the majority I am certain were the unemployed and were the instigators. Sure, there may have been employed and 'respectable' people that jumped in to the maelstrom...a ballerina, a postman, a charity worker, a couple of uni students; but these were opportunists along for the ride...just as despicable, but not the reason it started in the first place.

And It may be hard to condemn a 12-year-old as it's undoubdedly a case of 'what we see, we become', but some of the little darlings have been known to terrorise neighbourhoods, are capable of robbery, burglary, assault and even rape -they need to be punished for that despite their age and so do the parents. But it will never be for life....these are British kids - they'll be free to get back to their old routines in the flick of a lamb's tail. I had to laugh at the police being 'given permission' to ask a looter or crime offender to remove his face covering.....cracking down? getting tough?...jesus
Image
User avatar
radiojake
Posts: 678
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:29 pm
Location: Adelaidian living in Melbourne

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by radiojake »

Phatscotty wrote:Ministers plan removal of rioters’ benefits

Ministers are drawing up controversial plans to remove benefits from those convicted of taking part in the riots that engulfed England last week, in a move Liberal Democrats and independent experts have condemned as counter-productive and overly expensive.

Officials in Number 10 and the department for work and pensions are putting together plans for the harsh punishment of those found guilty of even the most minor infringements during the riots after a public petition calling for such a move gathered nearly 200,000 signatures.

David Cameron will lay the ground for such a move on Monday.


Right. So what happens to those who are convicted of rioting who have a job? Do they lost their superannuation? Do they lose their prospective tax breaks? Do they lose their job? This plan seems rather short sighted and over-reactive.
-- share what ya got --
Pedronicus
Posts: 2080
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:42 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Busy not shitting you....

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by Pedronicus »

I'm surprised that these riots have just stopped. the day and the next day after the Monday when all of London seemed to be in flames - there were old bill everywhere. But here we are a week on and all that Police presence as evaporated.

What wasn't reported in the mainstream media was just how far and wide the looting was. Anywhere in the outskirts London with shops was attacked. The sports and mobile phone shops in virtually every shopping centre were hit. The only ones that made it onto the news were the ones where the rioters torched some buildings and gave the helicopter cameraman a convenient shot.

The Police claim that the have arrested around 2-3000 rioters so far. It's a drop in the ocean. A hell of a lot of people have gotten away with it.

I can only assume that the reason the Riots have stopped is because there's nothing left to steal.

I wanted to buy a water pistol (one of those big ones that you pump up to pressurise the water) to apply paint to walls for graffiti. Entered my post code for the model I had seen on the Argos website.... No Stock within 5 mile radius. tried another model - same results.

If our economy is heavily based on consumption on teh high street, the upcoming financial reports on GDP and sales and shit are going to fall through the floor next month. It's going to be interesting to see how the politicians cover up this drop in sales .
Image
Highest position 7th. Highest points 3311 All of my graffiti can be found here
User avatar
Woodruff
Posts: 5093
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by Woodruff »

Pedronicus wrote:I wanted to buy a water pistol (one of those big ones that you pump up to pressurise the water) to apply paint to walls for graffiti. Entered my post code for the model I had seen on the Argos website.... No Stock within 5 mile radius. tried another model - same results.


Dude...you don't dare. I think they might be illegal: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=151529
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
User avatar
saxitoxin
Posts: 13415
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:01 am
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by saxitoxin »

Pedro's comment - more valid as it's a first-hand perspective - reminds me of the idea "4 Meals From Anarchy" that the British Secret Police operate under ... the Times did a story about it a few years ago ...

MI5’s maxim is that society is “four meals away from anarchy”. In other words, the security agency believes that Britain could be quickly reduced to large-scale disorder, including looting and rioting in the event of a catastrophe that stops the supply of food.

There is evidence that the breakdown of order could be caused partly by the first pangs of hunger but more likely by panic.

It is likely that the people affected would immediately buy up all the food available. As supplies ran out, the public might try to break through cordons or start competing violently for available food.

It is estimated that after as little as four missed meals, a “law of the jungle” would take over, in which citizens resorted to looting or violence to find food.

The possible breakdown in order, MI5 believes, could occur in isolated pockets or, less probably, across the country.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 492642.ece


Unlike the continent, Britain doesn't have a gendarmerie to reinforce the civil police and must rely on inefficiently and hastily reallocated local police as in the riots. Outside of Britain and Germany I can't think of a single other European nation that doesn't have a gendarmerie of some type (though in the former DDR we had the Combat Groups of the Working Class [KdA] and the three MfS Guards Regiments). That seems to be a peculiarly British thing as Australia, N-Z and the U.S. don't either. I supposition establishment of such a force in the UK will be a touchpoint of further EU integration.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
User avatar
saxitoxin
Posts: 13415
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:01 am
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by saxitoxin »

saxitoxin wrote:Pedro's comment - more valid as it's a first-hand perspective - reminds me of the idea "4 Meals From Anarchy" that the British Secret Police operate under ... the Times did a story about it a few years ago ...

MI5’s maxim is that society is “four meals away from anarchy”. In other words, the security agency believes that Britain could be quickly reduced to large-scale disorder, including looting and rioting in the event of a catastrophe that stops the supply of food.

There is evidence that the breakdown of order could be caused partly by the first pangs of hunger but more likely by panic.

It is likely that the people affected would immediately buy up all the food available. As supplies ran out, the public might try to break through cordons or start competing violently for available food.

It is estimated that after as little as four missed meals, a “law of the jungle” would take over, in which citizens resorted to looting or violence to find food.

The possible breakdown in order, MI5 believes, could occur in isolated pockets or, less probably, across the country.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 492642.ece


Unlike the continent, Britain doesn't have a gendarmerie to reinforce the civil police and must rely on inefficiently and hastily reallocated local police as in the riots. Outside of Britain and Germany I can't think of a single other European nation that doesn't have a gendarmerie of some type (though in the former DDR we had the Combat Groups of the Working Class [KdA] and the three MfS Guards Regiments). That seems to be a peculiarly British thing as Australia, N-Z and the U.S. don't either. I supposition establishment of such a force in the UK will be a touchpoint of further EU integration.


I hate to reply to my own notice, but on lark I just bing-dot-commed my own post and find this comment -

But John Schindler, a colleague here at the Naval War College, isn't so sanguine about the British military's capability to act as a panacea. "The U.K. is in a very tight spot here," he told me. "Having reconfigured the force for expeditionary warfare, plus the drastic Cameron cuts, the British army is caught. Since the U.K. lacks any paramilitary force like Italy's carabineri, this [function] by default falls on the army. And the number of infantry battalions at home is now so small, I doubt the army actually could restore order in more than one or two cities at a time."

http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/arti ... y-equation
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
User avatar
Fruitcake
Posts: 2194
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:38 am

Re: London [All Cities] Riot 2011

Post by Fruitcake »

'Our Father, which art in prison
Only mum knows his name.

Thy riots come.
Read it in the Sun, In Birmingham, as it is in London

Give us this day our welfare bread,
And forgive us our looting,

As we are happy to loot those who defend stuff against us.

And lead us not into employment
But deliver us free housing.

For thine is the spliff, the BlackBerry and the lager,

Forever and ever,

Innit'.
Image

Due to current economic conditions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off
Post Reply

Return to “Acceptable Content”