Baltic States [3/10] V33 P34 Beta!!

[natty dread]

The Central Estonian area is a bit too close to the sea colour... it looks like it's flooded.

As for trees... try making them a bit smaller and less uniform - some variation in size, and not going in a totally straight line, make them look a bit more natural.

Also, move the border between Saldus / Jelgava to the right a bit - it's hard to see the Saldus - Siauliai connection. Also, Jurbarkas - Marijampolë... are they supposed to connect?

The gameplay seems pretty solid... Although, the northern part could use at least one more easy bonus - the south has so many easy bonuses it seems a bit lopsided. Maybe an impassable on the north side of Tartu, making SE Estonia have 2 borders?

And maybe an impassable between Tukums & Riga?

[Augustus Maximus]

Rather than making a straight line with the trees, a grouping/cluster of trees would look better.

[TaCktiX]

I'll agree that the grid lines are distracting in the top and middle of the map, but at the bottom they're practically invisible because of the territory colors. It's a nice idea, but some work is likely going to be needed to handle the yellow/blue/red scheme you've got territory-wise.

[Gillipig]

A nice standard map I'd say but is there place for another baltic map? "Baltic Crusades" is in the final forge and is quite similar in location! Although game play differs a lot I suspect the number of players who are going to try this map when it's cleared for beta shortly after the other baltic map has already been there is going to be few!

[jigger1986]

I think this map looks great! Not being a map maker I cant really give to much feedback, but from the point of view of just your average CC schmo I really like it and would like to play it!

Please keep it up.

-jig

[Coleman]

I think this map looks great! Not being a map maker I cant really give to much feedback, but from the point of view of just your average CC schmo I really like it and would like to play it!

CC schmos are more than welcome. I'd like to think we are all CC schmos (is schmos the correct pural?). If you want to stop in and comment more often that would be awesome.

graphics
As for me (although DiM's post suggests the first topic may not have the latest version) the legend doesn't seem to match the slightly washed look the rest of the map has. I don't know if you just need to fade it slightly or throw in some slightly more greyish pixels here and there but something like that may improve the look.

gameplay
Some of your +2 regions seem a bit too hard to hold to be worth only 2. For example: South Lithuania, while only containing 4 territories and defendable by 2 is not comprable to South America in Classic (which is what I assume you tried to base bonuses off of). Kaunas can be attacked by 3 different territories, and Vilnius by 2. Wherase South America had two 1v1 edges. I would suggest in the current case that South Lithuania be made worth 3, or that more unpassable borders are added.

There are similar examples of this with other regions.

The alternative is to lower some of the larger regions by one but that increases the amount of region breaking in the gameplay as they become harder to reinforce.

[Bruceswar]

interesting points coleman. I am gonna run another check on the bonus values. Been a slammed week. I should have another update soon. As far as the bonus colors and or legend. I did not apply the grunge to it. I can test it out and see how it looks.

Rather than making a straight line with the trees, a grouping/cluster of trees would look better.

That is something I am working on. I am working on a better tree structure.

I think this map looks great! Not being a map maker I cant really give to much feedback, but from the point of view of just your average CC schmo I really like it and would like to play it!

Please keep it up.

-jig

Thank you. I am not giving up.


I will have another update soon. I plan on looking into the lines and seeing what I can do with them.

[Bruceswar]

The Central Estonian area is a bit too close to the sea colour... it looks like it's flooded.

As for trees... try making them a bit smaller and less uniform - some variation in size, and not going in a totally straight line, make them look a bit more natural.

Also, move the border between Saldus / Jelgava to the right a bit - it's hard to see the Saldus - Siauliai connection. Also, Jurbarkas - Marijampolë... are they supposed to connect?

The gameplay seems pretty solid... Although, the northern part could use at least one more easy bonus - the south has so many easy bonuses it seems a bit lopsided. Maybe an impassable on the north side of Tartu, making SE Estonia have 2 borders?

And maybe an impassable between Tukums & Riga?

I am working on fixing some of the colors. Central Estonia is one of them.

I can move the border over and or fix the trees to make sure both work better. To your second point, no but I need to fix the trees. That will fix the issue there.

As for the trees I am working on a totally new design.

[iancanton]

with the trees in, the gameplay looks better. however, below are some comments from earlier that seem to have been buried.

there's an unnecessarily-large number of bonus zones. west estonia and islands estonia can be combined usefully, for example, to form a proper continent in the classic sense. islands estonia especially ought to be eliminated as a stand-alone bonus because of its small size and isolated location.

thematically, lithuania is the largest country by area, population and size of economy, yet has the smallest number of regions! something a bit wrong there!

ian.

[Bruceswar]

Version 10

Whats new:
New Trees which still might change.
Redid the title.
Fixed some borders, there are still some graphical fixes left there. I will get to those soon.
Fixed some bonus colors per Natty's suggestion.
Move the border also per Natty's suggestion.
Main Border with a slight glow added to make it blend better

To Do:
To recheck all bonus values.
Clean up the map some more graphically.
Bring it all together visually.

[bigimg]http://musiciansheadquarters.com/balticv10.png[/bigimg]

[Bruceswar]

with the trees in, the gameplay looks better. however, below are some comments from earlier that seem to have been buried.

there's an unnecessarily-large number of bonus zones. west estonia and islands estonia can be combined usefully, for example, to form a proper continent in the classic sense. islands estonia especially ought to be eliminated as a stand-alone bonus because of its small size and isolated location.

thematically, lithuania is the largest country by area, population and size of economy, yet has the smallest number of regions! something a bit wrong there!

ian.

Sorry I missed responding to you. I just want to mention I really happen to like that there is a bunch of bonuses. It leads to many different ways to win this map given different drops. At your Lithuania point, I think the gameplay will be better for CC the way things are divided up. If others have concerns also I am open to ideas. I will be rechecking the bonus values to make sure they are all ok.


@ those of you who mentioned the lines going behind the play area. It did not look good at all so I left it. I do not think it is that distracting.This is one point I think I am gonna stand pretty firm on.

[DiM]

i agree with bruceswar on the lines issue. i like them as they are now.

[Victor Sullivan]

• There is a four-corner-thing going on @ Klaipeda-Liepaja-Saldus-Telsiai. That needs to be fixed.
• West and South Lithuania could stand to be contrasted a bit more.
• In the legend, order it from North to South (i.e. Estonia then Latvia then Lithuania).
• Bonuses:
  
  • West Latvia: +5
  • Central Latvia: +6 or +7
  • East Latvia: +4
  • Islands Estonia could potentially be reduced to just +1, but I'd say leave it as is for now and let Beta decide.

-Sully

[Bruceswar]

Here is what the bonus calculator says....

[bigimg]http://musiciansheadquarters.com/bonv.png[/bigimg]


N Lith 4
W Lith 4
S Lith 3
E Lat 5 or 6
SE Lat 3
C Lat 8
W Lat 4 or 5
SE Est 4
C Est 5
W Est 5
Is Est 2


I am not sure I agree with all those bonus values. What do you all think?

[koontz1973]

I am not sure I agree with all those bonus values. What do you all think?

Are all the impassables on the map yet?
Considering those figures do not tally up with sullys then I would suggest you leave it as is for now.
Bonus calculators are not infallible.

[Bruceswar]

Yeah I am gonna go closer to what sully has. That can still be hashed out.

[Bruceswar]

I am not sure I agree with all those bonus values. What do you all think?

Are all the impassables on the map yet?
Considering those figures do not tally up with sullys then I would suggest you leave it as is for now.
Bonus calculators are not infallible.

All the impassables are there. They might get a remake as in looks, but they are all in place.

[koontz1973]

Then leave them as is unless you get TOLD to change them. I like the fact that all bonuses are lowish.

All things can be fixed later.

[Victor Sullivan]

Then leave them as is unless you get TOLD to change them. I like the fact that all bonuses are lowish.

All things can be fixed later.

You can't just sit by and wait for the blue guys to make the end-all, be-all (be-all, end-all?) decisions... I'd like to think there are some non-cartos out there that are competent at map gameplay...

Who's got a keyboard and knows how to balance gameplay? This guy... (at least I'd like to think I'm mildly competent)

-Sully

[Bruceswar]

my next version will have some new bonus values added in.

[Gillipig]

I like that the map has several small bonuses to go for! You want to avoid the USA map mistake of just having one small bonus region. It could make for some interesting games. But I'm a little concerned that this map will be overshadowed by the other Baltic map! Simply because it will be released before this map and people will be less likely to play a baltic map on beta if they've already played one so recently.

[Bruceswar]

I think the other one has totally different game play. We shall see what the public thinks!

[TaCktiX]

When shall we be expecting another version with the updated bonus numbers?

[Bruceswar]

Should be within a day or so, I want to make sure I have a few things fixed also besides that.

[Bruceswar]

Here are 3 different versions of Baltic. Help me pick one to move forward with.

[bigimg]http://musiciansheadquarters.com/balticv11a.png[/bigimg]
[bigimg]http://musiciansheadquarters.com/balticv11.png[/bigimg]
[bigimg]http://musiciansheadquarters.com/balticv11b.png[/bigimg]



Image 1 is the normal look.

Image 2 has the water changed to make the land stand out

Image 3 is totally desaturated.



What has changed.

Eagle size / placement
Title Font

Central Lativa moved to 6
East Lativa moved to 4

Other minor graphical fixes.