How Do You Stop a Crazed Gunman?

[Augustus Maximus]

Probably more than there has been in the situations where 1 person has a gun and no one else does. As we have seen from the absurdly high death tolls.

[40kguy]

jump up and down yelling "shoot me shoot me" the gunman will be so confused you can just run away with out geting shot.

[PLAYER57832]

Probably more than there has been in the situations where 1 person has a gun and no one else does. As we have seen from the absurdly high death tolls.

and how often do those incidents happen? Also, again, is arming everyone really the best way to prevent these tragedies?

[Phatscotty]

Until police response time is 5 seconds or until there is a government person with a gun on every street corner, we are just gonna have to wait until the gunman runs out of bullets.

You stop a crazed gunman by shooting him

You are in a crowded street with 200 like minded individuals, someone pulls a gun, someone else screams "he's got a gun", the gunman fires, 199 people draw their Desert Eagles.......



How many survivors will there be?

Rule #1 You don't pull out your gun if you don't know who you're gonna shoot. You don't fire your gun if you don't know who you are firing at. If there are too many people take cover and wait for a clean shot or run. Every gun owner I know has already thought the responsibilities through, and has had to get a permit from the Sheriff, and most have had training and all of them fire regularly. One of them is a cop and one is an Iraq vet. The rest of us are just law abiding, second amendment practicing citizens.

[Phatscotty]

Probably more than there has been in the situations where 1 person has a gun and no one else does. As we have seen from the absurdly high death tolls.

and how often do those incidents happen? Also, again, is arming everyone really the best way to prevent these tragedies?

How often do bystanders get hit by police or citizen fire is the more relevant question. I've never heard a story like that, that's why your question is unreasonable, to me anyways.

[Phatscotty]

as for how many survivors there will be, the answer is going to be almost all of the time, "more".

[PLAYER57832]

Probably more than there has been in the situations where 1 person has a gun and no one else does. As we have seen from the absurdly high death tolls.

and how often do those incidents happen? Also, again, is arming everyone really the best way to prevent these tragedies?

How often do bystanders get hit by police or citizen fire is the more relevant question. I've never heard a story like that, that's why your question is unreasonable, to me anyways.

[sigh] there have been severl in the news lately, but here is the thing.. one reason they are not more common is that most people don't go around carrying guns.

And, that is the way most people like it.. even people who are quite attached to their guns. Most people want to live in a world where guns are available for sports, hunting and yes, in specific narrow cases, defense. However, we don't want to have to carry them every day.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Could just make guns legal so if someone decides to go on a crazed massacre he'll be reminded at least a good portion of that said crowd will be carrying something.

Case closed, next.

[PLAYER57832]

Could just make guns legal so if someone decides to go on a crazed massacre he'll be reminded at least a good portion of that said crowd will be carrying something.

Case closed, next.

guns are legal... both here and in Norway.

[Metsfanmax]

I think Phatscotty wants us to admit that we would rather have some innocent people die in tragedies like these, if it meant saving more lives in the long run because of the collective sum of individual events (like people breaking into homes) that result in gun deaths. Fine, I'm totally willing to admit that if the data supports it.

[Phatscotty]

I think Phatscotty wants us to admit that we would rather have some innocent people die in tragedies like these, if it meant saving more lives in the long run because of the collective sum of individual events (like people breaking into homes) that result in gun deaths. Fine, I'm totally willing to admit that if the data supports it.

innocent people are all that have died in these tragedies. Should they be protected or should not they?

I would bet money that from now on there will always be someone with a gun on the island.

[PLAYER57832]

I think Phatscotty wants us to admit that we would rather have some innocent people die in tragedies like these, if it meant saving more lives in the long run because of the collective sum of individual events (like people breaking into homes) that result in gun deaths. Fine, I'm totally willing to admit that if the data supports it.

innocent people are all that have died in these tragedies. Should they be protected or should not they?

I would bet money that from now on there will always be someone with a gun on the island.

The point is it is impossible to protect everyone always.. unless you want to take my afore-mentioned "secure room" option.

So, as a society we make choices on what will result in the least harm to the fewest people. Overall, limiting the guns in society reduces harm. Are there exceptions? Sure, to everything.

[safariguy5]

There are survival techniques to escape a gunman, stay low, try to move behind obstacles, zig zag your flight path.

[PLAYER57832]

There are survival techniques to escape a gunman, stay low, try to move behind obstacles, zig zag your flight path.

Yeah, play dead... etc. Kids tried them. Kids still died. A lot of those things don't work when you are swimming. And, a lot of those things don't work when you are a paniced teenager.

[Baron Von PWN]

Ok scotty. You say the best way to stop someone on a shooting rampage is for some bystander to have a gun and shoot the rampager. What I would like to know is if there is a single documented case where nut job starts a shooting rampage but is put down by a civilian bystander who happened to have a gun. I seriously curious to see if you have more than bluster to back up your claims.

[Baron Von PWN]

There are survival techniques to escape a gunman, stay low, try to move behind obstacles, zig zag your flight path.

The island was pretty tiny, not very far to run.

[Phatscotty]

Ok scotty. You say the best way to stop someone on a shooting rampage is for some bystander to have a gun and shoot the rampager. What I would like to know is if there is a single documented case where nut job starts a shooting rampage but is put down by a civilian bystander who happened to have a gun. I seriously curious to see if you have more than bluster to back up your claims.

Yes. I tried looking for it the other day. It was fairly recent, I think it was a Florida school council, where some guy with a gun was chiding the council and holding them hostage, and some dude in the back crept in the room and shot the gunman in the leg, and the gunman managed to lunge at his target still and pop off a couple shots but the hero shot him again,and no innocent people died. It happens from time to time. I think the gunman might have lived, or maybe the guy shot himself? I can't remember but you can bet when it happens it does not get national headlines. I know it was shown in this forum.

Unfortunately, this is what happens all too often.

A 25-year-old man who recently landed a new job at Ameriprise Financial and was engaged to be married was shot to death in his south Minneapolis home overnight, and police tracked a bloody trail from the crime scene in pursuit of the killer.

Shea Stremcha may have been killed after interrupting a burglarybut Police Sgt. Stephen McCarty said that "at this point in the investigation it is too early to rule out all other possible motives."

Police were called to the home, on 45th Avenue and just north of E. Lake Street, shortly after 3 a.m. Wednesday. Stremcha was dead by the time police arrived. No arrests have been made.

"People need to know that he was taken way too soon," said Alex Albers, a longtime buddy of Stremcha's who grew up with him in Northfield. "He had everything going for him."

Stremcha and his wife-to-be had moved into the home within the past year. The neighborhood of well-tended bungalows sits just two blocks off West River Parkway. Neighbors said they rarely have any serious crime.

On Wednesday morning, a law-enforcement bloodhound followed a trail of red drops from the home's side door, through the back yard and north through the alley. Police used ultraviolet lights in an effort to track the blood, and they removed the side door and boarded up the home.

"It's weird because I just met him," said Ashley Crain, who lives two doors north of the killing. "We were sleeping and our neighbor was getting murdered."

"They seemed like real sweethearts," Jerry Wehrley, another neighbor, said of Stremcha and his fiancee. "We're pretty spooked."

Albers, who now lives in Breckenridge, Colo., said he last saw his school friend when Stremcha headed out west to visit and go skiing.

"He was always a little smarter than me so I figured if I hung out with him I would end up doing better in school," said Albers. His friend had a multitude of interests, taking up pole vaulting, alpine skiing and cross-country running in high school. Stremcha also loved motorcycles, Albers said. He was a painter, and earned a bachelor's degree in art in 2008 at St. John's University in Collegeville, Minn.

"He was always kind of a jokester and upbeat. He could get along with anybody," said Jessica Wildes, an art student at the College of St. Benedict who shared several classes with Stremcha.

After college, Stremcha began looking for something more financially stable, said Albers, and eventually landed an interview at Ameriprise.

"He got the interview and the next day he was telling me how excited he was to get going on the job," Albers recalled.

Stremcha started working there about a year ago, said Ameriprise spokesman Benjamin Pratt. "We are deeply saddened by this tragedy," Pratt said. "Our thoughts are with Shea's family." Anyone with information about the killing should call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477).

Paul Walsh • 612-673-4482

Matt McKinney • 612-217-1747

[Woodruff]

Could just make guns legal so if someone decides to go on a crazed massacre he'll be reminded at least a good portion of that said crowd will be carrying something.

Guns already are legal.

Case closed, next.

Looks like we'll have to re-open it.

[GreecePwns]

Ok scotty. You say the best way to stop someone on a shooting rampage is for some bystander to have a gun and shoot the rampager. What I would like to know is if there is a single documented case where nut job starts a shooting rampage but is put down by a civilian bystander who happened to have a gun. I seriously curious to see if you have more than bluster to back up your claims.

Don't expect this to be answered. Especially when I have presented a prominent recent case in which the opposite happened. Not only did the armed civilian in Arizona not shoot, he nearly shot the wrong person:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41018893/ns ... wrong-man/

[Woodruff]

Ok scotty. You say the best way to stop someone on a shooting rampage is for some bystander to have a gun and shoot the rampager. What I would like to know is if there is a single documented case where nut job starts a shooting rampage but is put down by a civilian bystander who happened to have a gun. I seriously curious to see if you have more than bluster to back up your claims.

Don't expect this to be answered. Especially when I have presented a prominent recent case in which the opposite happened. Not only did the armed civilian in Arizona not shoot, he nearly shot the wrong person:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41018893/ns ... wrong-man/

But wait...Scotty always responds to any point made, doesn't he? He wouldn't avoid a valid point simply because it disagreed with his preconceived notions...surely not!

[Phatscotty]

Ok scotty. You say the best way to stop someone on a shooting rampage is for some bystander to have a gun and shoot the rampager. What I would like to know is if there is a single documented case where nut job starts a shooting rampage but is put down by a civilian bystander who happened to have a gun. I seriously curious to see if you have more than bluster to back up your claims.

Don't expect this to be answered. Especially when I have presented a prominent recent case in which the opposite happened. Not only did the armed civilian in Arizona not shoot, he nearly shot the wrong person:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41018893/ns ... wrong-man/

I answered before you posted this. Do you just skip my posts?

Don't expect an answer?

Again, the answer is yes.

[Metsfanmax]

Yes. I tried looking for it the other day. It was fairly recent, I think it was a Florida school council, where some guy with a gun was chiding the council and holding them hostage, and some dude in the back crept in the room and shot the gunman in the leg, and the gunman managed to lunge at his target still and pop off a couple shots but the hero shot him again,and no innocent people died. It happens from time to time. I think the gunman might have lived, or maybe the guy shot himself? I can't remember but you can bet when it happens it does not get national headlines. I know it was shown in this forum.

In that case, it was a security guard who wounded the gunman. You know, someone whose job it is to save people.

[safariguy5]

There are survival techniques to escape a gunman, stay low, try to move behind obstacles, zig zag your flight path.

Yeah, play dead... etc. Kids tried them. Kids still died. A lot of those things don't work when you are swimming. And, a lot of those things don't work when you are a paniced teenager.

I'm just saying, it is possible to cut down on the body count without pulling out guns and trying to kill the shooter. Obviously it won't work in all cases, but there are methods to increase survival rates.

[Woodruff]

Yes. I tried looking for it the other day. It was fairly recent, I think it was a Florida school council, where some guy with a gun was chiding the council and holding them hostage, and some dude in the back crept in the room and shot the gunman in the leg, and the gunman managed to lunge at his target still and pop off a couple shots but the hero shot him again,and no innocent people died. It happens from time to time. I think the gunman might have lived, or maybe the guy shot himself? I can't remember but you can bet when it happens it does not get national headlines. I know it was shown in this forum.

In that case, it was a security guard who wounded the gunman. You know, someone whose job it is to save people.

But it was the magical gun that did it.

[Phatscotty]

There are survival techniques to escape a gunman, stay low, try to move behind obstacles, zig zag your flight path.

Yeah, play dead... etc. Kids tried them. Kids still died. A lot of those things don't work when you are swimming. And, a lot of those things don't work when you are a paniced teenager.

I'm just saying, it is possible to cut down on the body count without pulling out guns and trying to kill the shooter. Obviously it won't work in all cases, but there are methods to increase survival rates.

yup.