Strategy Talk! Current Topic: Paranoia

[Fircoal]

Thinking about that. Maybe we could have a whole thread dedicated to each persons opinion on the role and sticky it. Or have a thread filled with a blurb on each role. I think it'd be interesting and beneficial to try.

[pancakemix]

Thinking about that. Maybe we could have a whole thread dedicated to each persons opinion on the role and sticky it. Or have a thread filled with a blurb on each role. I think it'd be interesting and beneficial to try.

That was one of my initial ideas for this thread, more specifically to write a consensus blurb and have it in the first post. That should still be doable if people want that.

New topic: Bandwagoning

[Fircoal]

I agree that our next topic should be bandwagonning. ;3

[Victor Sullivan]

BANDWAGONING KICKS ARSE!!!

-Sully

[Rodion]

I've heard things about the 4th (for instance) vote on a wagon being a "primary scum position". Does anyone give any credit to these premade common mafia conceptions? They could be easily WIFOMed.

[shieldgenerator7]

I've found that when bandwagoning you have to give a reason for why you're joining the bandwagon or else if you just BW then you get a lot of scum points. It's funny how town needs a BW to form in order to have a lynch but the BW process can help root out scum, or make players seem scummy.

[safariguy5]

I've found that when bandwagoning you have to give a reason for why you're joining the bandwagon or else if you just BW then you get a lot of scum points. It's funny how town needs a BW to form in order to have a lynch but the BW process can help root out scum, or make players seem scummy.

It's more the frequency at which you bandwagon. Doing it occasionally is ok, but having most or all of your votes be the bandwagon variety can really get you on the scumdar.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Is there really any "strategy" to bandwagonning? That's more of just an aspect of the game rather than anything requiring strategy. I really don't know what you could say about it.

[F1fth]

I would say that bandwagoning itself is not inherently scummy. Townies are almost always in the dark and will have to join bandwagons too and ones they aren't necessarily sure about. The manner in which the player joins the wagon is what's important.

Does the player...
... give supporting evidence or just agree with someone else?
... seem confident about the lynch?
... draw attention to their vote or slip it under the radar?

And other things along those lines. I also feel that how the person reacts to the accusation of bandwagoning can be more significant than the bandwagon vote itself but that's more of a personal opinion.

[pancakemix]

Is there really any "strategy" to bandwagonning? That's more of just an aspect of the game rather than anything requiring strategy. I really don't know what you could say about it.

There are a few aspects to it I think, namely:

1. How to react to bandwagoning (town)
2. How to get away with it (scum)

Bandwagoning is often a necessary evil, especially early on and in larger games. Not everyone on a wagon is going to be scum, so how does one go about separating them?

On the other side, how does one get separated into the more desirable group?

[Mr. Squirrel]

2. How to get away with it (scum)

Typically, if I am scum, I will never hop on a bandwagon. I will either construct my own case and let others bandwagon it, or I will just ignore the bandwagon and let the townies argue amongst themselves and lynch each other. I steer clear of it entirely. Hopping onto a lynch that goes south can be disastrous to a mafia member and often will lead to their lynch. In my opinion, its better to start the wagons so you know just where it is going. This same strategy should be applied to cops and docs so that they aren't suspected by town and don't have to claim until they are ready.

[strike wolf]

I have a few things I like to look for:

1. How strong is the case behind the bandwagon?
2. How close to deadline?
3. How often does the person jump on bandwagons compared to how often do they attempt making their own cases?
4. Where on the bandwagon did the person join?
5. How experienced is the person wagon jumping?

[pancakemix]

One other aspect to consider: the bandwagon as a necessary evil, especially in larger games. Let's face it: things don't get done unless people bandwagon on D1.

[ben.cleuch]

Hope this is the right thread. As bandwagoning has been quiet a while now. Can I ask that cult/recruiter is the next topic. I am new and have no idea what it means.
ps I am not one honest.

[shieldgenerator7]

Hope this is the right thread. As bandwagoning has been quiet a while now. Can I ask that cult/recruiter is the next topic. I am new and have no idea what it means.
ps I am not one honest.

we know you're not in real life. And BTW we don't talk about ongoing games in this forum. We talk about strategy and what not and it's alright to ask questions like that. But don't give away info to ongoing games.

In Mafia games, there are usually two factions: Town and Mafia, the uninformed majority and the informed minority, respectively. These are the usual parties. but in some games, they also have a Cult, which is basically a Mafia faction except with two major differences: a Cult has a recruit ability, so it can grow; and the Cult does not have a night kill, but the Mafia does. A Cult is a very dangerous force in a game simply because it can grow; former townies can become cult goons. The Cult Recruiter role is the one that recruits townies into the cult. I hope that helps

[Victor Sullivan]

Cult - The most badass faction.

-Sully

[safariguy5]

Hope this is the right thread. As bandwagoning has been quiet a while now. Can I ask that cult/recruiter is the next topic. I am new and have no idea what it means.
ps I am not one honest.

we know you're not in real life. And BTW we don't talk about ongoing games in this forum. We talk about strategy and what not and it's alright to ask questions like that. But don't give away info to ongoing games.

In Mafia games, there are usually two factions: Town and Mafia, the uninformed majority and the informed minority, respectively. These are the usual parties. but in some games, they also have a Cult, which is basically a Mafia faction except with two major differences: a Cult has a recruit ability, so it can grow; and the Cult does not have a night kill, but the Mafia does. A Cult is a very dangerous force in a game simply because it can grow; former townies can become cult goons. The Cult Recruiter role is the one that recruits townies into the cult. I hope that helps

Cult generally win when they outnumber town, but remaining mafia will usually deprive cult of a win as the mafia may be able to kill the recruiter then whittle down cult numbers. So I generally don't declare a cult victory unless all mafia are dead.

[strike wolf]

I have no experience playing as cult but in general experience usually by day 3 the need to kill the cult recruiter starts to get to the point where it is notably more urgent than killing mafia (earlier in smaller games but cult is usually not used in smaller games). Tend to win when they outnumber town but like Safari said they mafia tends to off set that. I've also seen a couple of games where an SK was used to guise a cult game as a regular mafia game.

[safariguy5]

I have no experience playing as cult but in general experience usually by day 3 the need to kill the cult recruiter starts to get to the point where it is notably more urgent than killing mafia (earlier in smaller games but cult is usually not used in smaller games). Tend to win when they outnumber town but like Safari said they mafia tends to off set that. I've also seen a couple of games where an SK was used to guise a cult game as a regular mafia game.

As for who the cult recruiter targets, as both having played as recruiter and recruited, there are generally two good targets, both of which should be targeted to keep town from guessing the recruits

1. The real active townish players, especially when they are claimed.
2. The submarining players who you don't think are mafia.

Usually if cult recruits mafia, the recruiter dies, but those two recruitment targets give cult the best chance of winning.

[strike wolf]

My general recruiting strategy whether cult or mason has been to recruit active intelligent/experienced town-looking players (someone you trust to be of use without exposing him/herself or me of being aligned though I would care less about that if I was a mason recruiter than I would as cult). If I was cult I probably would as safari said mix in inactive players unlikely to be scum.

[nagerous]

Cults are a serious danger to the town and I think often moderators underestimate their potential strength when attempting to balance a game. I've seen many a game where the town think they are doing well and hitting mafia when all of a sudden they are hit by a surprise cult that emerges from the shadows to win the game.

When playing as a cult leader, my advice tends to be to recruit your enemies, reading into the game and who is clicking onto you is vital as often they are also a power role and are much better on your side than against you . Normally when someone has their eye on you, they tend not to rest until you are either lynched, dead or have claimed and this poses an issue for a cult leader!

[strike wolf]

That's a good plan with one potential draw back. If that person's attitude shifts towards that person the town might notice.

[safariguy5]

Cults are a serious danger to the town and I think often moderators underestimate their potential strength when attempting to balance a game. I've seen many a game where the town think they are doing well and hitting mafia when all of a sudden they are hit by a surprise cult that emerges from the shadows to win the game.

When playing as a cult leader, my advice tends to be to recruit your enemies, reading into the game and who is clicking onto you is vital as often they are also a power role and are much better on your side than against you . Normally when someone has their eye on you, they tend not to rest until you are either lynched, dead or have claimed and this poses an issue for a cult leader!

Part of the reason why I do post cult recruitment flavor when I mod my games. Also, the people who are against you could be mafia, so that doesn't always work.

[strike wolf]

I have an interesting topic. Let's say in a theme game or otherwise you are given a character (doc, cop or otherwise) and you have reason to suspect that the character might be paranoid or insane. How do you treat the role?

In the case of a possibly paranoid or insane cop, I don't think you have much choice but to continue on as you would normally until your results from investigations prove otherwise all the while being cautious but not overly so in pursuing any guilty results.

As far as doc, i think it depends on whether you think you may be paranoid or insane. IF you think you are insane then caution is needed the problem...you may just be a regular doc and your absence from the game could prove fatal. If you think you might be paranoid, I would say it's best to keep your actions where you would normally send them until you have reasonable proof that you are indeed paranoid in which case you should proceed in treating the role like a jailkeeper.

I think though in all these situations it's important not to over think. Don't question the sanity or paranoia of every character you see as overthinking will probably convince you that you are.

[safariguy5]

I have an interesting topic. Let's say in a theme game or otherwise you are given a character (doc, cop or otherwise) and you have reason to suspect that the character might be paranoid or insane. How do you treat the role?

In the case of a possibly paranoid or insane cop, I don't think you have much choice but to continue on as you would normally until your results from investigations prove otherwise all the while being cautious but not overly so in pursuing any guilty results.

As far as doc, i think it depends on whether you think you may be paranoid or insane. IF you think you are insane then caution is needed the problem...you may just be a regular doc and your absence from the game could prove fatal. If you think you might be paranoid, I would say it's best to keep your actions where you would normally send them until you have reasonable proof that you are indeed paranoid in which case you should proceed in treating the role like a jailkeeper.

I think though in all these situations it's important not to over think. Don't question the sanity or paranoia of every character you see as overthinking will probably convince you that you are.

Sanity cops are much more common than sanity docs. That said, if there is another sanity version of your role, you might be insane or paranoid. Another good tipoff is if there are other investigative or protective roles other than yourself, because a mod will usually put more than one less powerful power roles to keep game balance.