Burning the Koran - Pastor Terry Jones

[Symmetry]

My newest poll has gotten me thinking. Lets take a step back from the murder, to the burning of the book. How about this for a poll:

What are the Extremist Muslims responsibility for the burning of the Koran?
1 None, the pastor was just looking for an excuse to burn it.
2 A little, you don't poke the bear.
3 They are both equally responsible.
4 A lot, the pastor can't control his reactions.
5 Completely, the burning wouldn't have occurred with the extremist Muslims actions.

This poll is based upon the idea that the only reason the pastor is burning the Koran, is because the extremist Muslims exist and go crazy. He probably did it to show how crazy the extremists are. If the extremist Muslims didn't exist, he never would have burned the Koran.

Kittens, dude, you left out the most important part.

I'd probably go 1) on this though, mainly because I don't think the poll is all that great, and that statement is probably the most accurate.

Bear in mind that he did this at the end of a show trial in which the judge and jurors were all members of his congregation. His point was that the Koran is fundamentally criminal, and the punishment was for it to be burned.

His beef was with the Koran itself. He thinks it's evil.

Can I ask how you voted in the current poll? Did you select #1 also?

You can, of course ask. And no I didn't.

Look, Bedub, heavily loaded questions are fun. You're not really asking people for their opinion though, you're trying to make them support your own, or not vote at all.

All of the poll options are your opinions or characterizations of those arguments. Just let people vote and argue the reasons out in thread. You won't be hurt if you let an opposing opinion be part of your poll. Can't say i blame you though- I've been called out for this before, but I think fairly.

[radiojake]

Nope, I'm not kidding you. If they had a problem with our country, they would have attacked our military, not innocent individuals. Sorry, but you can't blame America for the screwed up actions of other people in the world.

By the way Nightstrike, for the purpose of clarification and semantics, I do not consider the 9/11 attacks to be a justifiable reaction to US imperialism - I also do not consider the recent murders in Afghanistan as a justifiable reaction to the Koran burning. However, I have the intelligence to atleast acknowledge that the events are connected and completely related, and you can not detach them from each other.

You can not take events in isolation - Everything has a historical element. To ignore history and the relevance it has on modern day (and future) events makes you ignorant.

Finally, in regards to your 'if they have a problem with our country, they would have attacked our military' comment - Very interesting, seeing as the US still hasn't managed to get this right, and many, many, innocent civillians have died in Afghanistan, Iraq (and recently Libya) - Well and above the number of deaths in New York City and Washington some nine and a half years ago.

[bedub1]

This poll is, quite frankly, biased toward the pastor.

For one, "you don't poke the bear" depicts them as savages as if the pastor was not one. Secondly, the "a lot, killers can't control their reactions" is not the reason people would sympathize with them. In fact, a better poll would have including only the "completely option" without the "a lot" option OR ditched the little quips after each choice altogether.

Even better, instead of "who is responsible for the murders" one would ask "who came off looking worse to you in this situation?"

My problem is that the question itself is biased, as it assumes there is a relation between the two. In trying to re-write the poll, i went through like 4 different questions...and then like 5 different sets of responses/answers to the poll.

I like your question as to "who came off looking worse" but that only allows 2 options for the results, or possibly 3 with the 3rd being "they are both equally ___". And I'm really not sure if we can compare the "pastor" and the terrorists....

Anybody have any good poll idea?

I found this online earlier today...which I found interesting:

About two weeks ago, a so-called pastor named Terry Jones burned the Koran in Gainesville, Florida. Fox News and most other media ignored it.

But then the incredibly inept Hamid Karzai, president of Afghanistan, gave a speech saying that Jones should be arrested. That was all the nutty mullahs needed to whip up fringe elements in Afghanistan. They took to the streets, murdering perhaps as many as 38 innocent people. Reports are they even beheaded a few of them.

Of course, these people had nothing to do with the Koran burning, but the fanatical Muslims couldn't care less. They wanted to kill, so they killed.

Everyone involved in this story is disgusting. This Terry Jones idiot has blood on his hands. He had to know fanatical Muslims would go crazy. Karzai is simply a villain. Why on Earth are we supporting this guy? And once again, the Muslim problem in the world is illustrated for all to see.

Initially it was ignored like it should have been. But then the president of Afghanistan brought it up, bringing it into the light. Of course, they killed people who weren't even involved in the burning. Seems kinda silly....

[radiojake]

This poll is, quite frankly, biased toward the pastor.

For one, "you don't poke the bear" depicts them as savages as if the pastor was not one. Secondly, the "a lot, killers can't control their reactions" is not the reason people would sympathize with them. In fact, a better poll would have including only the "completely option" without the "a lot" option OR ditched the little quips after each choice altogether.

Even better, instead of "who is responsible for the murders" one would ask "who came off looking worse to you in this situation?"

My problem is that the question itself is biased, as it assumes there is a relation between the two. In trying to re-write the poll, i went through like 4 different questions...and then like 5 different sets of responses/answers to the poll.

I like your question as to "who came off looking worse" but that only allows 2 options for the results, or possibly 3 with the 3rd being "they are both equally ___". And I'm really not sure if we can compare the "pastor" and the terrorists....

Anybody have any good poll idea?

Why does it require a poll?

[BigBallinStalin]

Then you say, "That has nothing to do with it." Apparently, it does, but it doesn't matter to you because you're being a bigot.


(I lol'ed at "they hate our way of life, not because we attacked them first." That's pure Bush rhetoric, capitalized by Fox News. I can't believe people still buy that flimsy argument.)

I'm a bigot for believing that people are responsible for their own actions???

By the way, you can laugh all you want about them hating our way of life, it's still true.

You say, "It's their interpretation of their religion that makes them extremists, not the actions of people who are not of their religion."

I patiently show you where you're wrong and why.

You still fail to get it because you don't read carefully.

So, I recommend this book for you: How To Read and Why

[BigBallinStalin]

Nope, I'm not kidding you. If they had a problem with our country, they would have attacked our military, not innocent individuals. Sorry, but you can't blame America for the screwed up actions of other people in the world.

They are blaming America for the "screwed up actions" of American leaders and businesses.

Try reading through that list.

I think you're giving him way too much credit. We should put some pictures in there to help him out.

[thegreekdog]

I'd say hypocrisy is a symptom of stupidity

Hypocrisy makes me angrier than plain stupidity.

[Pirlo]

Nope, I'm not kidding you. If they had a problem with our country, they would have attacked our military, not innocent individuals. Sorry, but you can't blame America for the screwed up actions of other people in the world.

They are blaming America for the "screwed up actions" of American leaders and businesses.

Try reading through that list.

I think you're giving him way too much credit. We should put some pictures in there to help him out.

I think he's brainwashed, poor boy

[john9blue]

I'd say hypocrisy is a symptom of stupidity

Hypocrisy makes me angrier than plain stupidity.

agreed. i can deal with even the most extreme stupidity, but i can't deal with stupid people that don't REALIZE how stupid they are.

[puddytat]

If somebody burned the Koran, why not burn an equally important book as a response? I simply don't understand why people would resort to killing as a means for showing their displeasure at those whose opinion just happen to be opposite of their own.

[Symmetry]

If somebody burned the Koran, why not burn an equally important book as a response? I simply don't understand why people would resort to killing as a means for showing their displeasure at those whose opinion just happen to be opposite of their own.

What would be another book that you consider to be written directly by God?

[Lord and Master]

When you are a rational being, and so MUST realise that your so-called enemy is completely irrational by your standards, and you happily go on to blatantly contravene one of the things you KNOW will aggravate them beyond words... YES. IT'S YOUR FAULT.
And if there should bizarrely turn out to be such a thing as a god/allah then you DO deserve to have incurred he/she/it's wrath and BURN, you tosser.
Happily that's VERY unlikely and so you can just go about your business infuriating Blood-letting, People-murdering, Women-raping, Daughter-disfiguring, Infidel/Heathen/Foreigner-hating SOB's JUST LIKE YOU.

[Lord and Master]

Hell, the Israelis have kicked the ever-loving shit out of them on a couple of occasions...so they'd be stupid to attack our military. So they go the next route, which is terrorism.

Ummm... Surely the Israeli Military and the US Military is pretty much ONE and THE SAME..?

Do you call Palestinians Terrorists? When facing a much greater (Financially, Technologically and US-Interests-ially, but, of course, and this point really doesn't count for much with most people but... NOT MORALLY) Military who refuse to accept your legally democratically elected government as a legally democratically elected Government (convenient) and continually attempt to annexe your country and diminish your borders and curtail your rights... What would you do?

Yes I have been drinking... But still, when you deliberately piss poor people off, they will attempt to bite your balls if only 'cos they can't reach your throat. Yet.

[Woodruff]

Hell, the Israelis have kicked the ever-loving shit out of them on a couple of occasions...so they'd be stupid to attack our military. So they go the next route, which is terrorism.

Ummm... Surely the Israeli Military and the US Military is pretty much ONE and THE SAME..?

Nope. The Israeli military has no problem with women and homosexuals on the front lines. The United States military is still deathly afraid of those two things.

[puddytat]

If somebody burned the Koran, why not burn an equally important book as a response? I simply don't understand why people would resort to killing as a means for showing their displeasure at those whose opinion just happen to be opposite of their own.

What would be another book that you consider to be written directly by God?

Lemme see...

The Bible is one.

My point is this: If somebody burned a book that I happen to find important, would I kill him for it?
I'd probably burn his favorite book as retaliation instead.

I know my reasoning does appear overly simple, but that's just me.

[Pirlo]

If somebody burned the Koran, why not burn an equally important book as a response? I simply don't understand why people would resort to killing as a means for showing their displeasure at those whose opinion just happen to be opposite of their own.

What would be another book that you consider to be written directly by God?

Lemme see...

The Bible is one.

My point is this: If somebody burned a book that I happen to find important, would I kill him for it?
I'd probably burn his favorite book as retaliation instead.

I know my reasoning does appear overly simple, but that's just me.

you got to take into consideration that USA has been running a war in their country for 25 years. the people who did it are probably below 25 years old, which means they were born in a war, poverty & violence zone.

in other words, if I saw in the street a 30 years old guy fighting with a 10 years old kid, I'd definitely blame the adult who is supposed to be smart enough to avoid a fight with kids.

[puddytat]

If somebody burned the Koran, why not burn an equally important book as a response? I simply don't understand why people would resort to killing as a means for showing their displeasure at those whose opinion just happen to be opposite of their own.

What would be another book that you consider to be written directly by God?

Lemme see...

The Bible is one.

My point is this: If somebody burned a book that I happen to find important, would I kill him for it?
I'd probably burn his favorite book as retaliation instead.

I know my reasoning does appear overly simple, but that's just me.

you got to take into consideration that USA has been running a war in their country for 25 years. the people who did it are probably below 25 years old, which means they were born in a war, poverty & violence zone.

in other words, if I saw in the street a 30 years old guy fighting with a 10 years old kid, I'd definitely blame the adult who is supposed to be smart enough to avoid a fight with kids.

But others who think like them are not so young and should know better, right?

[Pirlo]

If somebody burned the Koran, why not burn an equally important book as a response? I simply don't understand why people would resort to killing as a means for showing their displeasure at those whose opinion just happen to be opposite of their own.

What would be another book that you consider to be written directly by God?

Lemme see...

The Bible is one.

My point is this: If somebody burned a book that I happen to find important, would I kill him for it?
I'd probably burn his favorite book as retaliation instead.

I know my reasoning does appear overly simple, but that's just me.

you got to take into consideration that USA has been running a war in their country for 25 years. the people who did it are probably below 25 years old, which means they were born in a war, poverty & violence zone.

in other words, if I saw in the street a 30 years old guy fighting with a 10 years old kid, I'd definitely blame the adult who is supposed to be smart enough to avoid a fight with kids.

But others who think like them are not so young and should know better, right?

I'm not defending them. and my point is to give you some ideas/clues about their differences between environments, conditions and the ways in which each party think.

people who live in shitty environments and are pissed off with their lives at constant risks would definitely react in a different way from people who live in a rich country and comfortable & peaceful environments.

is it that hard to understand?

[bedub1]

He's at it again:

County prosecutors filed a complaint Friday to keep Jones away from the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, saying his plans would breach the peace. A jury sided Friday with prosecutors, and Jones was led to jail and ordered not to appear at the mosque for three years.

"I was shocked," Jones said. "I was horrified."

"We were arrested and had not even committed a crime. ... It was clearly influenced by the mosque."

Dearborn Mayor John O'Reilly Jr. said the constitutional right to free speech cannot interfere with public safety, which was his concern if Jones protested at the mosque.

[Phatscotty]

interesting tidbit on that...

DEARBORN, Mich. (KABC) -- A Florida pastor's planned demonstration Friday outside a Michigan mosque was thwarted after a jury determined the protest would constitute a breach of the peace.

The Rev. Terry Jones was briefly arrested then released after posting a $1 bond he refused to pay earlier.

Jones had initially refused to pay the $1 bond because doing so would violate his freedom of speech.

The pastor had planned a demonstration Friday evening outside the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn.

one dollar? sounds like someone is just playing CYA concerning election negatives.

[b.k. barunt]

This just in:

b.k. barunt has just burned 16(countem!)16 copies of the Koran, and is holding 12 virgins hostage in a bar in Sun, Louisiana (hint - there's only one). He has agreed to accept full responsibility for any subsequent murders related to this highly inflammatory * * snigger * * act.


Honibaz

[Army of GOD]

This just in:

b.k. barunt has just burned 16(countem!)16 copies of the Koran, and is holding 12 virgins hostage in a bar in Sun, Louisiana (hint - there's only one). He has agreed to accept full responsibility for any subsequent murders related to this highly inflammatory * * snigger * * act.


Honibaz

Will you let me in if I say the password?

[b.k. barunt]

No password needed, just bring money and pot. I'll buy the beers.


Honibaz

[Borderdawg]

No password needed, just bring money and pot. I'll buy the beers.


Honibaz

Well now, look who's back! And on Easter at that!! Good to see ya, bk!

[b.k. barunt]

Hey Dawg. It's good to be seen. Just house and dog sitting for the wife for the day so i have a brief internet interlude before i fade back into the inbred wilderness outside of Bogalusa. Cheerio.


Honibaz