The Great Lakes -- [Quenched]

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:38 am

Okay, here's some more detailed stuff:

For the ports, I would very much like some sort of graphic that physically connects the lake and the land, like a pier. This will make it much more clear that it is only connecting those two territories. Due to the compactness of the area, I don't think Detroit would be able to continue to be a port with this graphic, given the port already in Taledo. I think the gameplay is fine without Detroit being a port.

You need to do something about the border around the lakes to indicate that, aside from the ports, they do not connect with the land territories. Perhaps do some sort of 3D land rise so that the land is above the lakes, and only the piers go down to it. (i.e., sink the lakes slightly)

For the bridges and lake connections, I thought a 3D bridge with a two-way arrow running underneath it would look good and be much more clear.

You need to shrink the mountains between Scranton and Harrisburg to make it more clear those territories connect.

I'm somewhat torn on the rivers. I think from a visual perspective they look great as is, but at the same time they are rather thin and often the divisions take a closer look. I could see a lot of people making the mistake that certain territories connect, like Madison and Minneapolis.

You need to move the boundaries for Evansville so that it no longer borders Dayton. This brings Indiana to 3 territories with 2 borders instead of 3 (now the same as Minnesota and Pennsylvania).

I would change North Bay to no longer be a port. This would both reduce Ontario to 4 borders instead of 5, and give the Great Lakes one territory that isn't a border (Lake Huron). Both regions would then be MUCH more holdable, whereas the way they are now neither is a viable region to go for.

I think nearly all of your bonuses are 1 lower than they should be, although since they're almost all like that it sort of works out to be fair in a way. I feel like you either need to add 1 to every bonus except for the Great Lakes, or bring that bonus down to 5. My vote would be adding 1.

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:42 am

WidowMakers...great looking start to your map, i like the concept.
* think it is too busy however with all the background flags - I liked the simplicity of your Mountain Kings and uncluttered appearance there and it had definite flavour. There is simply too much to concentrate on graphically in this one.
* Love the way it is laid in perspective - great graphic enhancement there
* Not sure about the lakes being territories
* is there any way the lines of longitude can be dulled/removed in the territories - my eye keeps wanting to wander to that meridian near the eastern borders of goshen, indianapolis and evansville, possibly because it seems such a prominent line that divides the map visually
* I won't even attemtp to comment on borders or territories as this is not my region, but it looks good.
Hope this helps.

Crowley · Post by **Crowley** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:09 am

Awesome visually!

Maybe just tone down the flags in the background.

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:26 am

this is a good start, however I am not a fan of the place names. naming each territory after a major city is rather bland and misrepresentative. For example, the area called Plattsburg is actually called North Country ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Country,_New_York ) and naming after a crappy dirty city like plattsburg ruins it for me.

jnd94 · Post by **jnd94** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:29 am

didnt you spell pittsburg wrong? I believe there is an h at the end.

MR. Nate · Post by **MR. Nate** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:08 am

Gorgeous! I love it!
I like the busyness of the map, it's fun.

Suggestions:
Maybe to clarify the ports, you could have the shores of the lake be an impassable border, with the actual ports being open, that way, it eliminates the confusion on which port can attack where.

Perhaps rename Peoria as East St. Louis. I know it's a rough town, but St. Louis sort of dominates that region, even though it's in Missouri, so you have to take that into account.

As to giving Toledo a port, and not Detroit, that's insane. Detroit is superior to Toledo in every way. If one of them loses a port, it HAS to be Toledo. Give Toledo's port to Cleveland, if needs be.

For the text, you could perhaps have it "standing up" perpendicular to the map itself, to highlight the text without the fading.

The bonuses seem low for Indiana and Illinois, if not for the rest of the map.

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:32 pm

MR. Nate wrote:As to giving Toledo a port, and not Detroit, that's insane. Detroit is superior to Toledo in every way. If one of them loses a port, it HAS to be Toledo. Give Toledo's port to Cleveland, if needs be.

Well, I only look at it from a map perspective. Clearly you cannot make them both ports, I only picked Toledo because Detroit's shoreline is smaller. I didn't really analyze it from the perspective of their real life importance. If the port will fit in Detroit, then by all means eliminate Toledo's port instead, or move it to Cleveland.

For the text, you could perhaps have it "standing up" perpendicular to the map itself, to highlight the text without the fading.

I'm assuming this is intended just for the bonus text, I like this idea as well.

Dmunster · Post by **Dmunster** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:25 pm

I like it alot. I agree that the bonuses for illinois indiana and ohio are low by 1, IMO.

coolpsp · Post by **coolpsp** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:28 pm

it's allmost perfect maybe if you made the colours easier to see.other than that it's perfect

Serbia · Post by **Serbia** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:28 pm

Samus wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:As to giving Toledo a port, and not Detroit, that's insane. Detroit is superior to Toledo in every way. If one of them loses a port, it HAS to be Toledo. Give Toledo's port to Cleveland, if needs be.

Well, I only look at it from a map perspective. Clearly you cannot make them both ports, I only picked Toledo because Detroit's shoreline is smaller. I didn't really analyze it from the perspective of their real life importance. If the port will fit in Detroit, then by all means eliminate Toledo's port instead, or move it to Cleveland.

Don't mess with Detroit! :twisted:

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:38 pm

Serbia wrote:
Samus wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:As to giving Toledo a port, and not Detroit, that's insane. Detroit is superior to Toledo in every way. If one of them loses a port, it HAS to be Toledo. Give Toledo's port to Cleveland, if needs be.

Well, I only look at it from a map perspective. Clearly you cannot make them both ports, I only picked Toledo because Detroit's shoreline is smaller. I didn't really analyze it from the perspective of their real life importance. If the port will fit in Detroit, then by all means eliminate Toledo's port instead, or move it to Cleveland.

Don't mess with Detroit!

I would never mess with Detroit! Only a fool would mess with a city whose crime rate was that high.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:27 pm

UPDATE NUMBER 2

Here is quick update with several of the changes.
48 territories and the names have been changed. Plus the territories borders have been adjusted along with the width

I know there is more but here is what I have so far.

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:10 pm

looks great...

I dont like how the legend text and descriptive text has the map angle perspective on it. it makes it hard to read.

is there a reason you dont give the map like a 5degree counter clock wise turn? I feel like i need turn my head sideways a bit to look at it.

Bad Speler · Post by **Bad Speler** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:46 pm

One point id like to bring up. Does Detroit border Lake Huron? I can see it borders the lake between Huron and Erie (St. Clair lake i think???), this could easily be mistaken either way.

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:47 pm

Instant hit!

Evil Pope · Post by **Evil Pope** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:58 pm

[edit]Ooop... Upon further review of the map, I was mistaken :oops:

Visually, the map is great. Some of the continents are a little hard to distinguish(i.e. Minnesota and Wisconsin.)

happy2seeyou · Post by **happy2seeyou** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:06 pm

I like it soo much better (the michigan part) now that Lansing is not a name of a territory. Grand Rapids is WAY better. But I was kinda shocked that Kalamazoo is on there. Anyhow, the map looks great. You always do well with your maps. congrats.

Serbia · Post by **Serbia** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:21 pm

Suggestion on the colors... Change Michigan to a dark blue, and make Wisconsin yellow. Just my opinion though... might help with the MN - WI problem mentioned earlier.

Serbia · Post by **Serbia** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:21 pm

Also, port cities can attack lakes, but can they attack each other?

everywhere116 · Post by **everywhere116** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:28 pm

I think petoskey should be renamed Mackinac

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:31 pm

Why is Ontario worth more than the Great Lakes?

happy2seeyou · Post by **happy2seeyou** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:47 pm

everywhere116 wrote:I think petoskey should be renamed Mackinac

And you should put in the Mackinac bridge. That would be neat. And how about in New York, you could put up the statue of liberty. Just a thought.

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:51 pm

Gilligan wrote:Why is Ontario worth more than the Great Lakes?

The Great Lakes are 5 territories with 5 borders. Ontario is 9 territories with 5 borders. Same borders, it's just more territories.

Big Jon · Post by **Big Jon** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:31 pm

Samus wrote:
Gilligan wrote:Why is Ontario worth more than the Great Lakes?

The Great Lakes are 5 territories with 5 borders. Ontario is 9 territories with 5 borders. Same borders, it's just more territories.

But each state has some territories that do not have borders and the Great Lakes have a border on each of its territories. I would think that this would be much harder to hold then any of the others. The whole map is about the Great Lakes, it should be the center of the game.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:49 pm

WidowMakers wrote:

I would:
Get rid of the 'gobe grid'
Make all the army shadows the same, right now some are red and some are white.
Have the mountains go off the map, I'm thinking around pittsburg and harrisburg the mountains should continue south.
Michigan should be reduced to 4.
Illinois should be 2
Great lakes should be 4, 5 at the most
Some words have wobly letters.

The Great Lakes -- [Quenched]

Re: The Great Lakes