Woodruff wrote:The teachers had the Democrat senators leave the state? The teachers had the President of the United States indirectly rip Governor Walker and challenge the Constitutional and procedural grounds? The teachers called for recalls on all Republican senators?
Those are some damn powerful teachers. No wonder you guys fear them so much.
Oh sorry, I assumed the teachers' unions represented the interests of the teachers.
Yes, and what does that have to do with the above? Or are you now agreeing that the teachers had some legitimate reason to complain?
Woodruff is quibbling with me and it's annoying.
I'm not quibbling. I'm pointing out a stupid statement.
thegreekdog wrote:If the teachers unions are supposed to represent the interests of the teachers and the teachers unions are getting Democratic senators to leave the state, etc., then, yes, I think the teachers are the ones doing this.
So your contention is that the Senators left the state only because the union told them to? And your contention is that the President of the United States ripped Governor Walker because the union told him to? Well hell, that's a damn powerful union...no wonder you fear them so much.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
thegreekdog wrote: Perhaps the unions could have "given more" in prior years to avoid this sort of thing happening, as an example.
Greekdog, this is the part that gets me. See, they HAVE given more in prior years. That IS why they now have more benefits than other people, because they did not take wage increases in the past. It was a trade they made.
Precisely my point.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
GreecePwns wrote:It isn't that he removed the rights that I have a problem with. It is the way he did so and the way his other actions have shown his policies more about punishing his political opponents than anything else.
There is no right to collective bargaining: it's a privilege. People have the right to assemble and petition as they wish, but no level of government has to listen to those requests, which makes collective bargaining not a right. Collective bargaining has been used in some (or most) state governments (but not even the federal government), but what has been "bargained" can no longer be afforded, so changes have to be made. In order to prevent the solutions being implemented today from being removed (and the excesses increased), the privilege of bargaining for non-salary compensation has been limited.
GreecePwns wrote:If anything Scotty, this is all pro-speculation. There is no guarantee all these businesses move to Wisconsin. I see Walker noticed the potential for loss when he cut tax credits to the lowest income tax bracket by $16 million. So much for shared sacrifice. It seems the tax credits will be paid by the lower class of Wisconsin.
In other news, Rockefeller's dog just drank the milk of a starving child.
People complained when no one paid federal income tax, but when the time comes to help these people get jobs the same people propose policies which make said jobs as lower-paying as possible, so as to mitigate the effects of job creation. The people spend almost every dollar they make. If anything, the tax credit should go to the lowest tax bracket so as to directly effect sales tax collected instead of this speculative handout to businesses paid off the backs of the lower class.
It is guaranteed already one company has, and I do not know every single company that has moved from my state, pretty much just the ones that make the news. I would bet you there is already another company that has already moved from Iowa or Illinois.
I'm sorry that you don't understand. We will just have to wait and see, so far in the first month there are 900 people in WI who will have a job that did not have one or had a worse one before, and 900 people who have options for healthcare.
Phatscotty wrote: I'm sorry that you don't understand. We will just have to wait and see, so far in the first month there are 900 people in WI who will have a job that did not have one or had a worse one before, and 900 people who have options for healthcare.
A NET gain or just a gain in one area.. that is the real question. And the "net" includes teachers, by-the-way.
Phatscotty wrote: I'm sorry that you don't understand. We will just have to wait and see, so far in the first month there are 900 people in WI who will have a job that did not have one or had a worse one before, and 900 people who have options for healthcare.
A NET gain or just a gain in one area.. that is the real question. And the "net" includes teachers, by-the-way.
So I assume you'll be counting the number of teachers whose pink slips were rescinded when the cut to benefits bargaining took place?
Phatscotty wrote: I'm sorry that you don't understand. We will just have to wait and see, so far in the first month there are 900 people in WI who will have a job that did not have one or had a worse one before, and 900 people who have options for healthcare.
A NET gain or just a gain in one area.. that is the real question. And the "net" includes teachers, by-the-way.
a job is a job, and these seem like some pretty good jobs (if you caught the average salaries I posted a couple pages back). It seems you might be confused. We are talking about Hutchinson Technologies moving from Minnesota to Wisconsin.
PopeBenXVI wrote:I thought I should share this pic I took of a bunch of Union thugs this past Sunday. I had to turn around to get a picture of that sign. I am sure he is the only one who thinks that way. LOL! http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=1 ... 4fdb1f3b00 Hope the picture link works - My first attempt at linking a pic:/
I'm pretty sure that's an anti-union individual carrying that sign.
that's what i thought too... "i'm entitled to your tax money" is too blatantly selfish to be serious... lol
Well, if one racist sign at a tea party rally makes them own the label then this one stands too. We already know many of the public union protestors do believe they are entitled to our tax money which is why they are protesting in Madison. It's for their pensions and benefits funded by the taxpayer. The burden of proof is on you that he was against them. I think he is Pro Union and a classic example of what is wrong with many of them.
PopeBenXVI wrote:I thought I should share this pic I took of a bunch of Union thugs this past Sunday. I had to turn around to get a picture of that sign. I am sure he is the only one who thinks that way. LOL! http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=1 ... 4fdb1f3b00 Hope the picture link works - My first attempt at linking a pic:/
I'm pretty sure that's an anti-union individual carrying that sign.
that's what i thought too... "i'm entitled to your tax money" is too blatantly selfish to be serious... lol
Well, if one racist sign at a tea party rally makes them own the label then this one stands too. We already know many of the public union protestors do believe they are entitled to our tax money which is why they are protesting in Madison. It's for their pensions and benefits funded by the taxpayer. The burden of proof is on you that he was against them. I think he is Pro Union and a classic example of what is wrong with many of them.
i know. i'm not so stupid as to criticize an entire movement based on the opinions of a person off the street.
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
Phatscotty wrote: I'm sorry that you don't understand. We will just have to wait and see, so far in the first month there are 900 people in WI who will have a job that did not have one or had a worse one before, and 900 people who have options for healthcare.
A NET gain or just a gain in one area.. that is the real question. And the "net" includes teachers, by-the-way.
So I assume you'll be counting the number of teachers whose pink slips were rescinded when the cut to benefits bargaining took place?
Looks what they did. Maybe the people who get laid off can get a job in landscaping.
It will be just like a public sector union job. Skip work and get paid to make a mess, and then have someone pay you to clean it up. And you don't even have to pay dues!
Unbelievable.
Oh well, here comes the Tea Party to save the day. tea partiers to clean up mess left by protesters in Madison
Woodruff wrote:The teachers had the Democrat senators leave the state? The teachers had the President of the United States indirectly rip Governor Walker and challenge the Constitutional and procedural grounds? The teachers called for recalls on all Republican senators?
Those are some damn powerful teachers. No wonder you guys fear them so much.
Oh sorry, I assumed the teachers' unions represented the interests of the teachers.
Yes, and what does that have to do with the above? Or are you now agreeing that the teachers had some legitimate reason to complain?
Woodruff is quibbling with me and it's annoying.
I'm not quibbling. I'm pointing out a stupid statement.
thegreekdog wrote:If the teachers unions are supposed to represent the interests of the teachers and the teachers unions are getting Democratic senators to leave the state, etc., then, yes, I think the teachers are the ones doing this.
So your contention is that the Senators left the state only because the union told them to? And your contention is that the President of the United States ripped Governor Walker because the union told him to? Well hell, that's a damn powerful union...no wonder you fear them so much.
Yes, this is precisely my contention. If the union was not "damn powerful" the Democrats would not have left the state and the president would have kept his mouth shut.
Phatscotty wrote: I'm sorry that you don't understand. We will just have to wait and see, so far in the first month there are 900 people in WI who will have a job that did not have one or had a worse one before, and 900 people who have options for healthcare.
A NET gain or just a gain in one area.. that is the real question. And the "net" includes teachers, by-the-way.
So I assume you'll be counting the number of teachers whose pink slips were rescinded when the cut to benefits bargaining took place?
Why would I? That "bargain" was just thrown in the trash by Walker. To go back on previous promises is, in itself dispicable.
PopeBenXVI wrote:I thought I should share this pic I took of a bunch of Union thugs this past Sunday. I had to turn around to get a picture of that sign. I am sure he is the only one who thinks that way. LOL! http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=1 ... 4fdb1f3b00 Hope the picture link works - My first attempt at linking a pic:/
I'm pretty sure that's an anti-union individual carrying that sign.
that's what i thought too... "i'm entitled to your tax money" is too blatantly selfish to be serious... lol
Well, if one racist sign at a tea party rally makes them own the label then this one stands too. We already know many of the public union protestors do believe they are entitled to our tax money which is why they are protesting in Madison. It's for their pensions and benefits funded by the taxpayer. The burden of proof is on you that he was against them. I think he is Pro Union and a classic example of what is wrong with many of them.
All you're doing here is making yourself look unrepentantly and proudly stupid. Wait...are you pimpdave?
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
thegreekdog wrote:Oh sorry, I assumed the teachers' unions represented the interests of the teachers.
Yes, and what does that have to do with the above? Or are you now agreeing that the teachers had some legitimate reason to complain?
Woodruff is quibbling with me and it's annoying.
I'm not quibbling. I'm pointing out a stupid statement.
thegreekdog wrote:If the teachers unions are supposed to represent the interests of the teachers and the teachers unions are getting Democratic senators to leave the state, etc., then, yes, I think the teachers are the ones doing this.
So your contention is that the Senators left the state only because the union told them to? And your contention is that the President of the United States ripped Governor Walker because the union told him to? Well hell, that's a damn powerful union...no wonder you fear them so much.
Yes, this is precisely my contention. If the union was not "damn powerful" the Democrats would not have left the state and the president would have kept his mouth shut.
Wow. My opinion of you has changed considerably.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
john9blue wrote:Because Woodruff's opinion of somebody is an accurate indicator of their worth as a human being.
As it should be.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
Woody, how come you aren't busting out facts and "how things really work"? forgive me if you already stated, but I think you are a teacher. Are you in a union?
Phatscotty wrote:Woody, how come you aren't busting out facts and "how things really work"? forgive me if you already stated, but I think you are a teacher. Are you in a union?
I've already discussed this. (Not sure if it's directly in this particular thread or not.)
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
Yes, indeed. PZ Myers (along with Cronon), has a point here:
William Cronon is a professor of history at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, and he recently wrote an op-ed for the New York Times that placed the recent labor troubles in Wisconsin in historical context — he explained how many of the progressive policies in that state were actually the product of Republican lawmakers, that the state has long been a battleground between the progressive and conservative wings of the Republican party, and that a good part of the liberalism in the state is due to a reaction against the autocratic hand of Joe McCarthy, who violated the traditions of the state and its people and basically inspired a lot of revulsion. And it concludes by pointing out that Governor Walker is making the same mistakes as McCarthy, forgetting the lessons of good government
and ....
The response has been interesting (in the sense of the Chinese curse) for Cronon. The Wisconsin Republican party is dunning him with an open records request demanding all emails that he has received mentioning any of the players in the recent labor conflicts in Wisconsin. Why? Because they're planning a witch hunt with Cronon as the prey, and they want to find any damning connection that will allow them to claim that Cronon is an apparatchik and propagandist, rather than an independent historian with a serious scholarly focus. Cronon himself has put together an analysis of the request — it's an effort to silence a critic with intimidation.
Well, hello there, Joe McCarthy! How nice of the Rethuglicans to confirm the comparison in his op-ed for him.
I had forgotten that McCarthy was a from Wisconsin.....
Juan_Bottom wrote:Also, what are taxpayer rights? To live here?
I can answer that! When one votes for a certain governor and certain legislators, one expects a certain result. For example, I voted for Governor Chris Christie expecting him to reduce spending and taxes. To the extent he doesn't do that because he's pressured by someone other than the majority of the people that voted for him, I will vote for someone else who will cut spending and reduce taxes.
taxpayer right #1 No taxation without representation. If a majority of taxpayers are unhappy about where their tax dollars are being spent, they have the right to elect someone who says they will no longer spend money/less money in that area.
I pay sales tax on things I buy in the US. What representation should I get in terms of US government?
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
