[CC2] - LoW (24-17) OSA (of 41) - Final

[jpcloet]

I feel better knowing at least 2 of the CD's have significant legal backgrounds.

[stahrgazer]

Okay.. Moderators. Others.

Please.

While the incidents here shined some light on some questions about how to handle negotiations, and rules, and pre-defined disciplinary actions for violations...

These issues are now SEPARATE from the LoW v OSA Conqueror's Cup challenge.

Perhaps one of the mods will be kind enough to start another thread - borrow anything you want from this thread..

but perhaps some of the Moderators will also adhere to my plea that remaining discussions take place OUTside of this thread.

My concern is, the issue already had two clan tempers flying, and a few others jumping into what began as a minor nuisance.

I wouldn't like to see my claws come back out over things that are now non-issues for this challenge.

Okay?
Thankies

[Namor]

I'm confused as I have examples where he asked for the rule and some where he wanted part of the rule and others where the actions infer the rule. I've asked the CLA to better clarify the common understanding of the rule. That will help everyone.

As jp says, we are currently trying to pen a standard description of the rule, based on 2-3 that have already been used by different clans. Once we have that finalised, it will be available for any clan, to copy and paste into their 'Terms of Engagement', if they wish to use the fog rule.

I would stress, at this point, that no clan would be under any obligation to accept the rule, this is only to simplify things for those that want to use it.

Please list all conquer-style maps so we avoid any confusion!

Feudal, Poland, AoR, Woodboro etc. Generally speaking, any map where the enemy DON'T border one another at the start. You should be safe taking a turn, if you aren't able to capture a territory from your opponent. Also, taking a nuetral tert wouldn't alter the opening map for the other team either.

My challenge back to you is that the average player won't know as to which games the rule applies to or does not. For the time being when you create the game you might consider putting 12H in the gaming label. Eg "LOW Home games set 2, 12H applies"

Great idea JP, don't know why it wasn't thought of before.

[eddie2]

i am just going to make one comment followed by a reason for it.

comment
this is all bollocks.

The twelve hour fog rule is not a valid rule on the site it comes into the same bracket as truces in games. where if a truce is broken it is frowned upon but no action can be taken for this type of breach. like no action should be taken if someone breaks the fog rule. What i have read is that you want to punish someone if they jump to next game / start turn this can easily be done if you are in a rush.

only comment by me.

eddie2

[Deadpool]

The issue was, LoW felt OSA wasn't "hearing us" properly about agreements and violations thereof; when it got to every agreement, plus the insults, I reacted. You've seen me do it before. Maybe calling for them to be totally disqualified over it was "too much" but- it got them to listen.

Apology accepted! I assume this also includes comparing the clan members to children and calling ALL of the members little boys.

It is so hard to get people to listen sometimes...the end justifies the means.

[Qwert]

eddie2, like people explane to me, its valid rule,when two chalenging clan make agrement, and these is not official rule in Clan games.
These talk need to be finish,and let LOW and OSA to decide what to do.

[stahrgazer]

I'm not planning to change game label to indicate fog.

Instead, I'm putting a note beneath fog games, as follows:
"This is a fog of war game.
Neither team shall start their turn until 12 hours after game initialization (when the last player joined) unless at least one member of the opposing team posts a note that it's okay to start, in the game chat.*"

Below the list, the following:

"*failure to comply with the fog of war 12-hour playing ban on noted games will result in the opposing team getting the choice of a remake or requesting the lost information, within 24 hours of the erroneous start. (Based on Chuuuuck's ruling from round 1)"

I request a similar indication from OSA on games they feel the rule should apply to; wording is of course their choice.

I still maintain that if we make the rule apply to every fog game, there's no question as to when it does and doesn't apply; no need to make different game labels, no need for confusion.

But with that note I'm adding to the list of games we'll send, there's still no confusion.

[chemefreak]

EVERYONE:

As Stahr requested above, let's allow this thread go back to focusing on this war. If you have a comment about the 12 Hour Fog Rule please contact your CLA representative as the CLA Forum is the proper place for this debate.

Thanks.

[TheMissionary]

Little late, but good luck to both sides. LoW by 8.

[Hamanu]

Well, to stray off topic..

The games are pretty dynamic so far. OSA is definitely not an easy opponent

Oh, and there's a hive game tossed into the mix so be prepared for a loooong wait for the final score.

Now we can go back to the 12hr fog debate

[stahrgazer]

reptile, I condensed all the "please post to first post" information here:

As originally agreed, the skirmishes will continue with the 12-hour don't-play fog of war rule; the only difference is the modification by Chuuuuck to exclude conquer-type maps where it doesn't matter anyway.
To avoid confusion, each clan is to indicate in their game sends where the rule shall or shall not apply.

"This is a fog of war game.
Neither team shall start their turn until 12 hours after game initialization (when the last player joined) unless at least one member of the opposing team posts a note that it's okay to start, in the game chat.*"

Below the list, the following:

"*failure to comply with the fog of war 12-hour playing ban on noted games will result in the opposing team getting the choice of a remake or requesting the lost information, within 24 hours of the erroneous start. (Based on Chuuuuck's ruling from round 1)"

As originally directed by Chuuuuck, LoW will send its Round 2 quads, beginning with World2.1, one by one, as soon as the LoW members playing those games have cleared slots. (Purpose: to get all skirmish quads started, and hopefully ended, without delaying the tournament).

As originally agreed, LoW understands that OSA may have a delay in filling the games (their members, especially their freemium members, playing those games may be involved in other games.)

No other agreements made prior to the start of the games applied to round 2.

All games will be exchanged by the Round 2 deadline established by Chuuuuck for the overall tournament.

[stahrgazer]

I'm confused as I have examples where he asked for the rule and some where he wanted part of the rule and others where the actions infer the rule. I've asked the CLA to better clarify the common understanding of the rule. That will help everyone.

As jp says, we are currently trying to pen a standard description of the rule, based on 2-3 that have already been used by different clans. Once we have that finalised, it will be available for any clan, to copy and paste into their 'Terms of Engagement', if they wish to use the fog rule.

I would stress, at this point, that no clan would be under any obligation to accept the rule, this is only to simplify things for those that what to use it.

Please list all conquer-style maps so we avoid any confusion!

Feudal, Poland, AoR, Woodboro etc. Generally speaking, any map where the enemy DON'T border one another at the start. You should be safe taking a turn, if you aren't able to capture a territory from your opponent. Also, taking a nuetral tert wouldn't alter the opening map for the other team either.

My challenge back to you is that the average player won't know as to which games the rule applies to or does not. For the time being when you create the game you might consider putting 12H in the gaming label. Eg "LOW Home games set 2, 12H applies"

Great idea JP, don't know why it wasn't thought of before.

See how legalese you have to be when you deviate?
"NO GAME with FOG of WAR should be played for at least 12 hours unless a member of the opposing team says it's okay to start," is ever so much easier to comprehend.

Edit: added,
which is EXACTLY why I worded the original round 1 suggestion that simply. To make sure it was very easy to follow, so that I didn't have to get into listing what does and doesn't constitute an appropriate-for-fog-rule map. Chuuuuck decided otherwise, benga got confused, and I'm complying by stating where it will apply for each and every game where it will apply - and asking OSA to do the same.

[stahrgazer]

Please take further general discussion regarding "fog of war" rules for CC to this thread:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=438&t=140285&view=unread#unread

[Leehar]

Well, to stray off topic..

The games are pretty dynamic so far. OSA is definitely not an easy opponent

Oh, and there's a hive game tossed into the mix so be prepared for a loooong wait for the final score.

Now we can go back to the 12hr fog debate

Lol, your comment is the off-topic one?

I didn't really actually see that much fog debate brought in other than with it's relevance to the application which would seem appropriate to the matter at hand that has hopefully been solved to everyone's satisfaction.
I still felt it was a mountain made out of a molehill, but now that it's resolved I suppose everyone can get back to bashing each other game-wise which is the done thing usually in these wars?
Best of luck OSA, your chances may be slim, but I'm still looking for an upset

[stahrgazer]

I still felt it was a mountain made out of a molehill,

Well, I still believe that violating every molehill makes for a legitimate mountain.

[reptile]

LoW draws first blood

Game 8660111

[stahrgazer]

LoW draws first blood
Game 8660111

Yes. OSA put up a mighty fine battle, but LoW cleaned up Iraq.

Edit: Added.
With that game completed, LoW can (and did) send the next quads, the tiebreaker:
Game 8708448 World 2.1 required quads - no spoils, chained, sunny

[aaronvollrath]

Game 8660123 Prison Riot – No spoils, Chained, Sunny

the game number is wrong on this one. it points to conquerman game...

[stahrgazer]

Game 8660123 Prison Riot – No spoils, Chained, Sunny

the game number is wrong on this one. it points to conquerman game...

Sorry about that>>>>>>Game 8660133

[reptile]

Game 8660123 Prison Riot – No spoils, Chained, Sunny

the game number is wrong on this one. it points to conquerman game...

Sorry about that>>>>>>Game 8660133

Ok, i changed the game # to the correct one, then replaced the players in the player count as well.

Also added the required World 2.1 quads game to LoW's round 1 game list... have not added those players yet. will wait until it starts to be on the safe side.

[stahrgazer]

Game 8660123 Prison Riot – No spoils, Chained, Sunny

the game number is wrong on this one. it points to conquerman game...

Sorry about that>>>>>>Game 8660133

Ok, i changed the game # to the correct one, then replaced the players in the player count as well.

Also added the required World 2.1 quads game to LoW's round 1 game list... have not added those players yet. will wait until it starts to be on the safe side.

erm.. technically World2.1 is round 2.

Per Chuuuuck's request prior to games starting, as any larger game clears from round 1, we should send another large game from round 2 to get those going prior to the deadlines, and he specifically requested we start those round 2 "early sends" with that W2.1 game.

Matter much? No; just, I'd rather show we sent w2.1 early for round 2 than late for round 1 (especially given OSA had specifically requested we hold 2.1 for round 2)

and, again, sorry for that typo on supermax

[reptile]

fixing that now

[reptile]

Game 8681361 has finished as a low victory.

current score 2-0

[stahrgazer]

Update:

Three games complete, three Legends of War victories (and 4th real close.)

Game 8660111 Battle for Iraq Triples - No Spoils, Chained, Foggy - LoW Win
CrazyIrishman/bfunny27/stahrgazer

Game 8665171 England - Escalating, Chained, Sunny - LoW Win
fairman/Crazyirishman/Condor


Game 8681361 Middle Ages - Flat, Chained, Fog - LoW Win
Condor/Hamanu/bfunny27/DBandit70

Wooohoooo Legends!!!!!


Game 8681349 Africa - Escalating, Chained, Sunny - probable LoW Win
WidowMakers/dcc1220/Crazyirishman

[Leehar]

Africa isn't actually finished yet even if the result is beyond doubt...