WWII - Eastern Front-statistic page 1 [Quenched]5000 finish

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:55 pm

qwert wrote:Mistake Ruben-Guiscard tell that i have problems with eye becouse i dont have magnifying glases to see these huge diference.

Oh it's okay qwert. I am just contributing to reach page 80 because a few pages before I said that this thread would reach some page in the 80s before the map got quenched. :lol:

Nikolai · Post by **Nikolai** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:00 pm

Um... I had a hard time understanding that. Sorry. I think what you're asking me is if it's okay to dismiss people who don't see a difference between the jagged and smoothed borders as being somehow incompetent - less smart, or having poor eyesight, or some such. The answer to that is no. However, this doesn't change the fact that the difference is there, very noticeable by people who actually look, and that it would be a good and useful change to the map.

Does that accurately answer your question?

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:01 pm

well its look that we will have record in views 20000 :wink:

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:05 pm

I think we might be running into a language barrier, so I found an online English-Serbian translator. See if this doesn't make sense qwert:

Oni ne oskudica za te pokret određeni član granica , oni oskudica te dodati jedan zamagliti efekt da izvrši njima pogled uglađivač.

My apologies if that doesn't make sense, I obviously don't speak Serbian.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:05 pm

qwert wrote:Do you belive that all members can understand what these smooth mean,if you see Guiscard example only people with magnifying glases can see diferent, and even some member say that no see diference,ofcourse Guiscard then say that hes got problems with eye(these tell me)

But you used a magnifying glass to find errors in Australia. :wink:

As far as that goes, I can see what you're pointing out... however, it's not an issue of thickness or smoothness. The problem in the Australia map is the brush I used to draw the lines. Nobody mentioned this when it was in development though, and as I've said I'm happy to revamp it at some point.

I guess I just don't understand why someone would argue over a point that takes mere minutes to fix. In the time taken to write one post in the forum this whole thing could have been fixed. I guess if qwert's really angry he might type really fast, so maybe it's two posts. :wink:

I really don't think a poll is going to be the best option. There's a simple change to be made, it's not worth making a poll over. It's not a case of does this version look better or that one. I think it's pretty universal that the smooth borders look better.

Also, I'm just curious. Wouldn't this map have to earn Final Forge again before being quenched?

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:07 pm

Yes Nikolai, and hes also take hes role in map making, not only 10 or 15 people, becouse for some changes you must have a lot more people, and that vote pool must be understanding for all people, with question who everybody can understand like "Do you think that borders in map have some problems for you" in these way everybody can understand better.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:11 pm

Samus its look that yours translator dont work good,becouse these words dont make sence. i realy can not understand these. But these problem is with all translators becouse our language is not easy to learn.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:14 pm

Keyogy, you must understand that many people dont think like you do. You think that these best and other people see no diference, also i dont see diference, and when you put these two map in normal view so many people will see that no diference.

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:19 pm

qwert wrote:Samus its look that yours translator dont work good,becouse these words dont make sence. i realy can not understand these. But these problem is with all translators becouse our language is not easy to learn.

Sorry, I tried.

But qwert, if you don't see the difference, why not just do the way people want? I don't see any reason NOT to change it.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:23 pm

qwert wrote:Keyogy, you must understand that many people dont think like you do.

That's a good thing though. I'd be worried if other people were sharing my thoughts. :shock:

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:24 pm

But i see, why everybody scare of vote pool(expecialy Keyogy),I repeat again these borders newer be problem even in Final Forge, and Andy refuse to heard Majority vote.

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:33 pm

no one is scared of a poll qwert. It just has no point. Andy has the final say. He wants them changed. They will need to be changed before your map continues.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:44 pm

I want to see what majority thinks, and nobody can refuse these even Andy too.

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:45 pm

yes he can. Who else is going to quench your map? The quench fairies? Andy is the only person able to quench it. And if HE isnt happy he wont quench it.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:52 pm

These i say, if you see title(waithing andy final decision)
And like Keyogy say"i will be happy to rework my map in future " ofcourse if my map be quenched and if a lot people demand. But first i must know what andy think, and for now its look that hes ignoring and dont want to tell me clean answer- "yes", or "no,abandone map" and then let majority blame hem for failure not me.

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:54 pm

qwert, if you want to see what the majority thinks then just listen to us! GO through the last 10 pages of babble and you will clearly see that most people have asked you to smooth the lines. As the map maker, it is then your responsibility to follow those requests.

If you really want a poll then that is fine. However make sure you word it appropriately so the poll means something. In fact don't even ask if people prefer the borders smooth or not. How about you simply refer to Guiscard's simple image.

Make the question "Which of the rivers in these images looks better" and have the options be 1 and 2. (and refer to the page the image comparison is on).

But the point is that a poll is unnecessary. The majority has already replied to you that #2 looks better (the image where the border is smoother). A proper poll will simply reflect that opinion I'm sure, and then you will see what the majority wants. No one is afraid of you making a poll, people just think its a waste of time because the general opinion is pretty obvious- The jagged borders aren't a huge deal or mistake, but the map would look better if you applied a simple fix.

That's what everyone is saying.

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:56 pm

qwert wrote:These i say, if you see title(waithing andy final decision)
And like Keyogy say"i will be happy to rework my map in future " ofcourse if my map be quenched and if a lot people demand. But first i must know what andy think, and for now its look that hes ignoring and dont want to tell me clean answer- "yes", or "no,abandone map" and then let majority blame hem for failure not me.

He won't tell you "no, abandon the map" he'll tell you "no, fix the jagged borders" as he did last time he posted in there. If you thne refuse to fix the borders (as the majority have requested you to) and you abandon the map, there will be no one to blame except for yourself.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:02 pm

qwert wrote:But i see, why everybody scare of vote pool(expecialy Keyogy),I repeat again these borders newer be problem even in Final Forge, and Andy refuse to heard Majority vote.

LOL. Why would I be scared of a poll?

If there is a poll on this issue, disucssion in this thread would indicate people would want to see smooth borders anyway. If the poll was to give a different result I still think you should smooth the borders, it is a small thing to improve the map.

Have a look at the Eight Thoughts thread. Coleman and Widowmakers are making changes that contradict the poll results to improve the map. See what I mean, when I say polls are not always a good idea? I think they're good for things like "which font do you like better?" or "which colour do you like better?". I see no reason to have a poll which basically translates to "do you want my map to look better?".

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:03 pm

Thanks sully, i meant to put these guiscard example but i want to put only A and B, and with 3 option"Yes""no" and "No diference", and you right these waste of time becouse borders is good.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:05 pm

Then you dont mine to put vote poll Keyogy.Thanks

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:15 pm

I personally don't mind if you put up a poll. Nobody can stop you, it's your right to do so. I just think it's pointless.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:32 pm

Page 74...only 6 more to go! Was it only yesterday when we had 67 pages?

Anyway on a positive note Qwert has now learnt how to write 'majority'. I bet your English teacher will be happy with the time you spend in the foundry Qwert! :lol:

Personally I would like to start learning a couple of words in Serbian in exchange for this...so what is majority in Serbian?

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:33 pm

KEYOGI wrote:I personally don't mind if you put up a poll. Nobody can stop you, it's your right to do so. I just think it's pointless.

Agreed. If you put up the poll and people tell you to add the blur effect, are you going to then?

Nikolai · Post by **Nikolai** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:33 pm

qwert, if I did adequately answer your question, what are you arguing about? The only person who thinks the current borders are clearly better is you. We all either want to see them smoothed or don't care. The majority has spoken, is speaking, and will continue to speak. And you can't possibly have the arrogance, after all your talk about following the will of the majority, to assume that you, by yourself, represent a majority against what I number as nearly 20 people, many of whom are skilled mapmakers. Just make the change, put up the image, and we'll all be able to see if it's really better.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:40 pm

Samus wrote:
KEYOGI wrote:I personally don't mind if you put up a poll. Nobody can stop you, it's your right to do so. I just think it's pointless.

Agreed. If you put up the poll and people tell you to add the blur effect, are you going to then?

Of course he would. Qwert's mind works like that.

However I wouldn't be so sure the majority would actually vote for that. There are many lurkers in the foundry and it's possible that they all side with Qwert!