Wisconsin State Employees & Budget Cuts

[Phatscotty]

WI senator calls the protesters slobs.

A bunch of protesters who can not even explain why they are protesting. (love he guy with the "It's not about the $$$$" sign, but when asked what the impact of the bill would be, he immediately answers "538 dollars a month")

[Iliad]

WI senator calls the protesters slobs.

A bunch of protesters who can not even explain why they are protesting.

Hmmm.

I bet no-one ever has created a video that shows the ignorance of Tea Partiers or health care protesters on the topics they're protesting, or even quite general ignorance on the state of politics.'

Nuh-uh, no sir.

Also the protesters who you claim cannot explain why they are protesting were able to explain very well. One even quite correctly pointed out that the unions are willing to compromise on benefits and wages to help close the deficit. The protesters answered the questions quite well, even the follow-up questions which were "If this bill doesn't pass what should be done about the deficit?" I already talked about one of the men who explained it well, but it's interesting to note that you will get either a stammer or a some soft response like "across the board" if you were to ask a Republican politician how they would cut the deficit.

[Phatscotty]

WI senator calls the protesters slobs.

A bunch of protesters who can not even explain why they are protesting.

Hmmm.

I bet no-one ever has created a video that shows the ignorance of Tea Partiers or health care protesters on the topics they're protesting, or even quite general ignorance on the state of politics.'

Nuh-uh, no sir.

Also the protesters who you claim cannot explain why they are protesting were able to explain very well. One even quite correctly pointed out that the unions are willing to compromise on benefits and wages to help close the deficit. The protesters answered the questions quite well, even the follow-up questions which were "If this bill doesn't pass what should be done about the deficit?" I already talked about one of the men who explained it well, but it's interesting to note that you will get either a stammer or a some soft response like "across the board" if you were to ask a Republican politician how they would cut the deficit.

sure, there were plenty of videos showing crap about the Tea Party. I didn't have a problem with them being shown. I probably got a good laugh out of them. I don't think these people knew what they were talking about (the money guy, the metro guy) not to mention a few deflections to others when asked. All they got right was the talking points. The benefits and the pension have not been cut as of today. as you know, saying what you will do is different from doing. I will believe it when I see it.

[thegreekdog]

You shouldn't, you should keep your receipts and claim it all back when you leave.

Really? That's awesome.

I think, technically speaking, if you purchase normally taxable property in Virginia (let's say), you shouldn't pay sales tax so long as you use said property outside the United States. But I'm not sure about that and there's no way in hell a vendor is not going to make you pay sales tax (unless of course you're buying online goods).

[Phatscotty]

Does it piss you off that illegal immigrants make a living here and use all our resrouces for free and pay less taxes than you do?

In fact, illegal immigrants generally do pay both income and social security taxes from their paychecks (that's why they need the false papers). They just will never recoup it.

yup. I won't even argue about the income and SS tax, but I disagree. Will only state the workers have an option of what to claim, there are a few options that allow you to pay virtually nothing, and then end up owing like 2k at the end of the year, and when the IRS catches up to them, they just get another SS #. But sure, technically they pay a little, but keeping it in the context symmetry started with, it does in no way mean they should be represented

[thegreekdog]

when the IRS catches up to them, they just get another SS #.

A quick word on this. When I participated in the Volunteer Income Tax Assistance program a few years back, one of my clients was a legal Mexican immigrant. He was getting notices from the Social Security Administration and from the IRS indicating that he had over $200K of income and was not paying enough taxes. We did some digging and found out there were seven different people using this gentleman's social security number (all of them illegal immigrants). Talking to the social security representative, I found out that this is a very common occurrence for Mexican-Americans.

I'm not passing judgment on immigration (legal or illegal), I'm simply thought this might be relevant.

[Phatscotty]

when the IRS catches up to them, they just get another SS #.

A quick word on this. When I participated in the Volunteer Income Tax Assistance program a few years back, one of my clients was a legal Mexican immigrant. He was getting notices from the Social Security Administration and from the IRS indicating that he had over $200K of income and was not paying enough taxes. We did some digging and found out there were seven different people using this gentleman's social security number (all of them illegal immigrants). Talking to the social security representative, I found out that this is a very common occurrence for Mexican-Americans.

I'm not passing judgment on immigration (legal or illegal), I'm simply thought this might be relevant.

relevant. My information is first hand, not like I can prove it. Every illegal I know has his story, and then what really happened. I have heard lots and lots of stories. I have seen lots and lots of their checks too.

[Symmetry]

You shouldn't, you should keep your receipts and claim it all back when you leave.

Really? That's awesome.

I think, technically speaking, if you purchase normally taxable property in Virginia (let's say), you shouldn't pay sales tax so long as you use said property outside the United States. But I'm not sure about that and there's no way in hell a vendor is not going to make you pay sales tax (unless of course you're buying online goods).

Absolutely- I suspect the details differ a bit from country to country within the EU, but look up the rules if you're visiting a European country from the US and are returning to the US. I think all you need to do is show the customs official the thing that you bought and a receipt. There's probably a form too, but if you've bought a lot of stuff it's worth the effort. In UK airports there's usually an office you can go to once you go through immigration. It's worth trying.

[Juan_Bottom]

Wait, taxpayer rights are to vote?...ok, but I'm a felon who pays taxes. And I have no right to vote... So that doesn't make sense to me then.

That cop looks like Assistant Director Skinner. Who gets the reference?

It's alright Phatscotty, it really does not matter what you say to them. They are all just so pissed that conservatives won many elections and are trying to deliver in what is supposed to be a representative republic. All their liberal hope and dream comments they were making after our immigrant president was elected are vanishing right before their eyes. They can't stand that Walker is wildly popular in such a short time. They would rather stand behind the Dem senator threatening the conservative woman with "Your F...ing Dead!" Thats what they believe as civil behavior when you lose an election and have no other recourse. At least, I have not heard any of them denounce any of their friends uncivil behavior so I can only conclude they agree with defecation in Capitol buildings and the sort.

Your behavior is uncivil and unhealthy to the conversation, and so I denounce you. You are a traitor to the Republic and deserve to be quartered.

[Phatscotty]

All people know ahead of time if you commit a felony you will lose some of your rights. In fact, losing my right is the number one motivator for me not to commit a felony. it works!

[Woodruff]

All people know ahead of time if you commit a felony you will lose some of your rights. In fact, losing my right is the number one motivator for me not to commit a felony. it works!

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that you're not significantly motivated by just doing the right thing?

[PLAYER57832]

when the IRS catches up to them, they just get another SS #.

A quick word on this. When I participated in the Volunteer Income Tax Assistance program a few years back, one of my clients was a legal Mexican immigrant. He was getting notices from the Social Security Administration and from the IRS indicating that he had over $200K of income and was not paying enough taxes. We did some digging and found out there were seven different people using this gentleman's social security number (all of them illegal immigrants). Talking to the social security representative, I found out that this is a very common occurrence for Mexican-Americans.

I'm not passing judgment on immigration (legal or illegal), I'm simply thought this might be relevant.

Yes, I actually had something along those lines happen to me, though I am not (to my knowledge ) Mexican. They also use children's Ids, etc.

And, yes, we have enough on immigration in other threads. However, I have heard more than a few people say that illegal immigrants (who pay in but don't take money out) may be helping to keep our SS system more solvent.

[john9blue]

All people know ahead of time if you commit a felony you will lose some of your rights. In fact, losing my right is the number one motivator for me not to commit a felony. it works!

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that you're not significantly motivated by just doing the right thing?

"right thing" my ass... i did the right thing a few years ago... unfortunately the state thought it was the wrong thing and i almost got convicted of a felony.

[PLAYER57832]

All people know ahead of time if you commit a felony you will lose some of your rights. In fact, losing my right is the number one motivator for me not to commit a felony. it works!

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that you're not significantly motivated by just doing the right thing?

"right thing" my ass... i did the right thing a few years ago... unfortunately the state thought it was the wrong thing and i almost got convicted of a felony.

You were convicted, so in the eyes of the law you are guilty.. period. Your only other route is to get the ruling overturned.

EDIT -- I should have said from the start that I vaguely remembered him talking about this and there were extenuating circumstances, but I did not remember. My point was not to make judgement on him, just to say that this is how the law works.

[jimboston]

Wait, taxpayer rights are to vote?...ok, but I'm a felon who pays taxes. And I have no right to vote... So that doesn't make sense to me then.

You lost that right when you decided to break the law.

[Juan_Bottom]

It's not a "right" if it can be taken away. You guys are suffering from a lack of English-language education. What you guys call "rights" everyone else calls "privileges."
So while I'm forced to continue paying taxes, I have no right to the privilege that you guys say that I'm paying for... which is to vote. It sounds to me like you're just talking out of your ass.

And I didn't break the law. Well, I did break the law, but accidentally. I hit a guy riding a bike with the passenger mirror of my brand new van. He fell of his bike and hit a road sign. When I looked back I saw the sign shaking, and thought that was what I hit. The traffic behind me kept moving, so I did too. When the cops asked me what happened I told the truth. Bam, felony. And I thought that I was doing the right thing. There was no "decision to break the law." I'm not a bank-robber or rapist or some shit, so try to not betray how judgmental you really are before even knowing what happened. Obviously I did not even know that it was a felony, or I probably would have lied and gotten away with it. Which is what my attorney would have had me do. In my home state, just two weeks before the accident they upgraded a few dozen crimes to felony status IN A FUND-RAISING EFFORT. Failure to render aid after an accident was one of them.

PLUS losing the right to vote is really only a conspiracy to keep blacks from voting. But lets not get into that.

[thegreekdog]

It's not a "right" if it can be taken away. You guys are suffering from a lack of English-language education. What you guys call "rights" everyone else calls "privileges."
So while I'm forced to continue paying taxes, I have no right to the privilege that you guys say that I'm paying for... which is to vote. It sounds to me like you're just talking out of your ass.

And I didn't break the law. Well, I did break the law, but accidentally. I hit a guy riding a bike with the passenger mirror of my brand new van. He fell of his bike and hit a road sign. When I looked back I saw the sign shaking, and thought that was what I hit. The traffic behind me kept moving, so I did too. When the cops asked me what happened I told the truth. Bam, felony. And I thought that I was doing the right thing. There was no "decision to break the law." I'm not a bank-robber or rapist or some shit, so try to not betray how judgmental you really are before even knowing what happened. Obviously I did not even know that it was a felony, or I probably would have lied and gotten away with it. Which is what my attorney would have had me do. In my home state, just two weeks before the accident they upgraded a few dozen crimes to felony status IN A FUND-RAISING EFFORT. Failure to render aid after an accident was one of them.

PLUS losing the right to vote is really only a conspiracy to keep blacks from voting. But lets not get into that.

In the interest of full disclosure, Juan, you did refer to collective bargaining as a right.

[PLAYER57832]

It's not a "right" if it can be taken away. You guys are suffering from a lack of English-language education. What you guys call "rights" everyone else calls "privileges."
So while I'm forced to continue paying taxes, I have no right to the privilege that you guys say that I'm paying for... which is to vote. It sounds to me like you're just talking out of your ass.

And I didn't break the law. Well, I did break the law, but accidentally. I hit a guy riding a bike with the passenger mirror of my brand new van. He fell of his bike and hit a road sign. When I looked back I saw the sign shaking, and thought that was what I hit. The traffic behind me kept moving, so I did too. When the cops asked me what happened I told the truth. Bam, felony. And I thought that I was doing the right thing. There was no "decision to break the law." I'm not a bank-robber or rapist or some shit, so try to not betray how judgmental you really are before even knowing what happened. Obviously I did not even know that it was a felony, or I probably would have lied and gotten away with it. Which is what my attorney would have had me do. In my home state, just two weeks before the accident they upgraded a few dozen crimes to felony status IN A FUND-RAISING EFFORT. Failure to render aid after an accident was one of them.

PLUS losing the right to vote is really only a conspiracy to keep blacks from voting. But lets not get into that.

A. when you have the funds, hire an attorney to get the charges reduced. If you were honest, it seems strange you would receive the maximum penalty. Keep your nose utterly clean, etc. in the mean time.

B. You are lucky you did not kill someone. This is not an accusation. It is my greatest fear. The field of vision in a van, SUV, truck, etc is limited. If you had, you would be living with the guilt for the rest of your life, not to mention being even worse trouble, so it is something to be happy about...

C. If you hit ANYTHING, you need to actually go back and check it out. You just do.. so something like this doesn't happen. Live and learn, but there it is.

D. Littering in a national park can be, I am told a felony as well... so, well, this is why there is legislation to give some people back their rights after some convictions. You might investigate that. Its a long way from fruition.

[Juan_Bottom]

Well yeah GD, that's why I said it couldn't be taken away.
I'm not saying that it won't be taken away because it is a right; I'm saying they shouldn't be able to take it away because it's a right.

A. when you have the funds, hire an attorney to get the charges reduced. If you were honest, it seems strange you would receive the maximum penalty. Keep your nose utterly clean, etc. in the mean time.

I was quoted 4 thousand and a couple trips to springfield when I took the deal. I'm guessing from my experience that it will be 10 times that amount. For something like three years I couldn't even get the state to the bargaining table. Their offer was the maximum 30 years in prison and a crapload of fines.

B. You are lucky you did not kill someone. This is not an accusation. It is my greatest fear. The field of vision in a van, SUV, truck, etc is limited. If you had, you woudl likely be in even worse trouble, so it is something to be happy about.

Skippity-doo-da!
No seriously I had a heart attack when I realized that I hit a person. I thought I had to have killed him. I am thankful for that, though I wish they were just a tad more lenient on me.

C. If you hit ANYTHING, you need to actually go back and check it out. You just do.. so something like this doesn't happen. Live and learn, but there it is.

You know, It was just one of those situations where I had other stuff going on... I had been out of state all week and was going home to see my girlfriend. I hit what I thought was a sign, and the cars behind me kept moving with me, so I didn't want to waste the time to go back and pick up a shattered mirror. PLUS I had just-just bought the van, so there were no plates or anything on it. I didn't want to attract too much attention.... little did I know...
Though oddly the fact that I just bought it helped me out in court.

D. Littering in a national park can be, I am told a feloney as well... so, well, this is why there is legislation to give some people back their rights after some convictions. You might investigate that. Its a long way from fruition.

The deal I took gave me $5000 give-or-take in fines and a class 4 felony. I also have my license revoked and no one in Springfield can even tell me why. I took the class 4 felony so some day I can have the felony expunged, but the conviction will still be there. And my DNA will remain in the FBI database. I've never been in trouble before and never will be again. I don't drink or anything.
My BFF from High school hit a car in a wal*mart parking lot on her lunch break. It was also her first day at a new job, and she didn't want to be late getting back from lunch. So she left a note on the car's windshield with her contact information on it. And she got a hit-and-run felony out of it too. Felonies really don't mean what people expect them to mean.
I know a guy who broke up with his girlfriend in the summer. He went shopping for a new air compressor while she went to the bank and emptied out their account. He was oblivious to this when he wrote out a check for a few hundred dollars. When the store called him about his check, he returned to pay them with cash. A detective was waiting for him,... so after he was put into cuffs he refused to give the store the money, and used it to bail himself out. He got a felony for writing a bad check over $200.

[john9blue]

The deal I took gave me $5000 give-or-take in fines and a class 4 felony. I also have my license revoked and no one in Springfield can even tell me why. I took the class 4 felony so some day I can have the felony expunged, but the conviction will still be there. And my DNA will remain in the FBI database. I've never been in trouble before and never will be again. I don't drink or anything.
My BFF from High school hit a car in a wal*mart parking lot on her lunch break. It was also her first day at a new job, and she didn't want to be late getting back from lunch. So she left a note on the car's windshield with her contact information on it. And she got a hit-and-run felony out of it too. Felonies really don't mean what people expect them to mean.
I know a guy who broke up with his girlfriend in the summer. He went shopping for a new air compressor while she went to the bank and emptied out their account. He was oblivious to this when he wrote out a check for a few hundred dollars. When the store called him about his check, he returned to pay them with cash. A detective was waiting for him,... so after he was put into cuffs he refused to give the store the money, and used it to bail himself out. He got a felony for writing a bad check over $200.

Yeah but you're all still bad criminals! According to Player I mean.

I've always wondered why people have such an aversion to moral relativism...

[Phatscotty]

State says damage to marble at Capitol could hit $7.5 million

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/117340918.html

[Woodruff]

All people know ahead of time if you commit a felony you will lose some of your rights. In fact, losing my right is the number one motivator for me not to commit a felony. it works!

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that you're not significantly motivated by just doing the right thing?

"right thing" my ass... i did the right thing a few years ago... unfortunately the state thought it was the wrong thing and i almost got convicted of a felony.

Sometimes, "doing the right thing" goes completely counter to what society and government think you should do. That shouldn't stop you from still doing the right thing.

[Phatscotty]

The right thing is to live within our means. Even in 2011, many people have not yet identified "their" means.

[Woodruff]

It's not a "right" if it can be taken away.

Then in your opinion there is no such thing as a "right"? Because there is not a right in existence that cannot be taken away.

[Woodruff]

The right thing is to live within our means.

Thank you, broken clock.