Three Kingdoms of Korea [Quenched]

[natty dread]

Three Kingdoms of Korea

Graphics: Natty_dread
Gameplay: Industrial Helix

UPDATES:

XML - download/file.php?id=290
Large- http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4477/korea28.png
Small- http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/790/korea28s.png

v28
XML: download/file.php?id=290

[bigimg]http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4477/korea28.png[/bigimg]
[bigimg]http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/790/korea28s.png[/bigimg]

[spoiler=older versions]Small image
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/733/korea26s.png[/bigimg]

Large image
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/5862/korea26.png[/bigimg]


XML: download/file.php?id=123

v23
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7531/korea23s.png[/bigimg]

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/2026/korea23.png[/bigimg]

v22

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/411/korea22.png[/bigimg]

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9785/korea22s.png[/bigimg]

v21
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3379/korea21.png

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6950/korea21s.png

v20.2
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6696/korea21c.png[/bigimg]

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6950/korea21s.png[/bigimg]

v20.1
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4259/korea20.png

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8482/korea20s.png

v20
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4259/korea20.png
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8482/korea20s.png
v19
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9640/korea19.png
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/9056/korea19s.png
v18 Large
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8647/korea18.png
v18 Small
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5582/korea18s.png
v17
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/9756/korea17.png
v16.2
http://img858.imageshack.us/img858/1203/korea16.png
v16
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/1203/korea16.png
v15
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4448/korea15.png
v14.2
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6022/korea14.png
v14.1
http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/6022/korea14.png
v14
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/6022/korea14.png
v13
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3372/korea13.png
v12.2
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3808/korea12.png
v12.1
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/3808/korea12.png
v12
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3808/korea12.png
v11
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/1734/korea11.png
v10.1
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3558/korea10.png
v10
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3558/korea10.png
v9.2
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1491/korea9.png
v9.1
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1491/korea9.png
v9
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1491/korea9.png
v8.1
http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/666/korea8.png
v8
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/666/korea8.png
v7.3
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8598/korea7t.png
v7.2
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/446/korea7.png
v7.1
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/446/korea7.png
v7
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/446/korea7.png
v6
http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/9619/korea6.png
v5
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8269/korea5.png
v4.3
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/8187/korea4.png
v4.2
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8187/korea4.png
v4.1
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8187/korea4.png
v4
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7311/korea4w.png
v3.2
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1905/korea3.png
v3.1
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9320/korea3k.png
v3
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1905/korea3.png
v2
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6683/korea2.png
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6683/korea2.png
First version:
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4300/korea1o.png[/spoiler]

[spoiler=888 tests]Large with 888:s
[bigimg]http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5904/korea18888.png[/bigimg]
Small with 888:s
[bigimg]http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/856/korea18s888.png[/bigimg][/spoiler]

[spoiler=Colourblind tests]Protanopia
[bigimg]http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8531/koreaprot.png[/bigimg]
Deuteranopia
[bigimg]http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/6715/koreadeut.png[/bigimg][/spoiler]
Gameplay:

47 territories in 6 bonus areas
includes 5 capitals and 7 castles

No regular territory bonus: any amount of territories gives +3 troops (so starting territory amounts do not matter on 2 player games)

All capitals start with 2 neutrals each
All castles start with 3 neutrals each
Both Wa territories start with 1 neutral each

All territories adjacent to capitals (except Jinhan which has a castle) are starting positions with 3 troops, a total of 9 territories

The other 24 territories start normally.

2-3 player games: 12 territories/player
4 player games: 8 territories/player
5 player games: 6 territories/player
6 player games: 5 territories/player
7-8 player games: 4 territories/player

Each bonus area only gives a bonus if it's corresponding capital is held, with exception of Wa, which gives a bonus if you hold both territories. If you hold either Wa territory and any capital, you get a negative bonus (troop penalty).

Each castle territory gives a +1 bonus.

Wa: 2 territories, +2 bonus, -4 if either territory is held with a capital
Gaya: 4 territories - 3 shared with Silla, 1 with Baekje - +1 for every 2 w/capital
Silla: 12 territories - 3 shared with Goguryeo, 3 with Gaya, 1 with Baekje - +2 for each territory w/capital
Goguryeo: 24 territories - 3 shared with Silla, 1 with Baekje, 4 with Tang - +1 for each territory w/capital
Baekje: 9 territories - 1 shared with Gaya, 1 with Goguryeo, 1 with Silla - +1 for each 2 w/capital
Tang: 8 territories - 4 shared with Goguryeo - +3 for each 2, w/capital

Territories with junks connect to other territories that have junks of same colour:

- tamna, kyuyshu, aragaya, hwangsanbeol & honshu attack each other
- teng-chou & gyaongju attack each other
- teng-chou, liaoning & shabei attack each other
- honshu & chonsong fortress attack each other

[Victor Sullivan]

Nice graphics! The font in the legend is hard to read, but I suppose that's more graphics.

[natty dread]

Thanks. All the icons + the mountains are sort of placeholders, I'll look into drawing fancier ones in graphics... Fonts will be open for debate as well.

[Victor Sullivan]

My main concern is with all the striped territories, pretty much only one maybe two people will be able to hold a bonus at one time. In addition, Goguryeo would be impossible to hold, and the bonus would only be used as overkill.

[natty dread]

Do you understand how the bonuses work?

[Victor Sullivan]

Do you understand how the bonuses work?

Oh, haha... I thought that was in addition to a standard continent bonus that wasn't listed on the map... Ol' Sully's jut embarrassing himself, carry on with your regular duties...

[Industrial Helix]

I've got a lot via graphics suggestions...

The title would benefit from capital letters and you wrote it in Chinese, not Korean. One would think Korean would be more appropriate But overall, I'm glad to see some effort to bring foreign language into CC.

Mountains are gorgeous... if anything let the texture of the map come through more.

Those capitals and castles that you apparently copied are just little ditties I threw in the gameplay map... this might take some research into what a Korean Castle and capital look like. Perhaps even into what Pyongyang looks like versus Seoul.

The stripes... I think diagonal might look more dynamic. Regardless, I think the outline scheme kind of clashes with the filled in scheme of the stripes. I wonder if there is a better way to depict the regions and the dual regions.

And the colors... I'd be in favor of desaturating them. I think we're going for the old map look, so the colors ought to look old and worn as well.

My fault but, Kaya in the legend should be Gaya.

As for gameplay, I'm thinking Hanju ought to border Ungjin Baekje is a little bottled up there.

Kyushu and Honshu should border... maybe draw a little line or something?

When ever it is that you feel like you wanna put neutral values on there, territories with castles or capitals start at 3 neutral.

Gaya... I figure we'll need two neutrals or four starting positions... maybe make it six starting positions if we include Wa.

And in the legend, Wa's bonus needs to read something closer to -4 for holding a capital and either Honshu or Kyushu... its my original bad wording, I know, sorry.

[natty dread]

The title would benefit from capital letters and you wrote it in Chinese, not Korean. One would think Korean would be more appropriate

One would think, but according to my research, the Korean alphabet was not invented at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanja

Those capitals and castles that you apparently copied are just little ditties I threw in the gameplay map... this might take some research into what a Korean Castle and capital look like. Perhaps even into what Pyongyang looks like versus Seoul.

I actually did draw them myself, but yeah, I used your design. Yes, we should look into it.

The stripes... I think diagonal might look more dynamic. Regardless, I think the outline scheme kind of clashes with the filled in scheme of the stripes. I wonder if there is a better way to depict the regions and the dual regions.

If we have to choose between outline/filled, I'd go with outline for this map... If we can just think of something for the double regions.

And the colors... I'd be in favor of desaturating them. I think we're going for the old map look, so the colors ought to look old and worn as well.

My fault but, Kaya in the legend should be Gaya.

Will do.

Kyushu and Honshu should border... maybe draw a little line or something?

In that case, I'd suggest we replace the red & green junks with line routes as well... if there's going to be sea routes represented by lines, then we might as well make those connections easier to see.

And in the legend, Wa's bonus needs to read something closer to -4 for holding a capital and either Honshu or Kyushu... its my original bad wording, I know, sorry.

Ok... are the other legend wordings ok?

[natty dread]

Here's some things taken care of

[bigimg]http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6683/korea2.png[/bigimg]

One more thing comes to mind... perhaps Goguryeo could have a second capital? It has so many territories, it seems a bit unfair that only 1 player can benefit from them...

Also, I'm going to go ahead and post a design brief.

[natty dread]

Slight update: alternate font for legend & title.

Also, I plotted out some enlargened 88:s to the smallest parts to see if they work for the small version - they should.

[bigimg]http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6683/korea2.png[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6038/korea288.png[/bigimg]

[Industrial Helix]

Ok, if we're going to b historical about the title, then its old Korean we want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Korean#Old_Korean

You're right about using both lines and junks, I think I'd prefer Junks. Go back to the original scheme and add in two more connecting Honshu and Kyushu?

As for the starburst style you showed me via PM... i'm not really feeling it.

What do you think about getting as many names onto the territories represented as possible? I think it might make things a little more streamlined.

[natty dread]

Ok, if we're going to b historical about the title, then its old Korean we want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Korean#Old_Korean

Ok.. can you find out what the Three Kingdoms were called in old korean? And how it was spelled? I'll adjust the text accordingly.

You're right about using both lines and junks, I think I'd prefer Junks. Go back to the original scheme and add in two more connecting Honshu and Kyushu?

Ok, that seems reasonable.

As for the starburst style you showed me via PM... i'm not really feeling it.

Yeah that was just an experiment...

What do you think about getting as many names onto the territories represented as possible? I think it might make things a little more streamlined.

Way ahead of you... they will be in the next update

Also, what about the Kaema/Salsu border? Should Kaema border Salsu only, or should the border be lower so that Kaema borders Lelang? The shape of Salsu as it is now seems a bit... well, convoluted. And Kaema is a dead end...

[Industrial Helix]

Ok, if we're going to b historical about the title, then its old Korean we want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Korean#Old_Korean

Ok.. can you find out what the Three Kingdoms were called in old korean? And how it was spelled? I'll adjust the text accordingly.

...and as it turns out, the Koreans used Hanja before they developed Hangul to express their phonetics. Kind of like how the Japanese use Chinese characters but ascribe totally different sounds to them. So, in short, using Chinese characters is totally time appropriate.

I dunno if you knew that and just sent me on a goose chase to prove your point, lol. But point taken.

[natty dread]

...and as it turns out, the Koreans used Hanja before they developed Hangul to express their phonetics. Kind of like how the Japanese use Chinese characters but ascribe totally different sounds to them. So, in short, using Chinese characters is totally time appropriate.

I dunno if you knew that and just sent me on a goose chase to prove your point, lol. But point taken.

No I didn't, I swear... I mean I did think that chinese characters were used but I thought maybe you knew something I didn't...

[natty dread]

next iteration - more junks, better icons, general rearranging of stuff...

[bigimg]http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1905/korea3.png[/bigimg]

[natty dread]

Ok I think maybe I should make the map a notch brighter:

[bigimg]http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9320/korea3k.png[/bigimg]

[natty dread]

An alternative solution for the striped areas:

[bigimg]http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1905/korea3.png[/bigimg]

[theBastard]

ofcourse I saw your start in HCS, but I had not energy and time to comment or help you. great gameplay, great graphics. I more like version where all regions are stripped, so not only borders. it is much more "redable".
also the change of font helps.

one question: did/do you think to do castles "independent" areas? it should be fine.

[Industrial Helix]

I like the new solution better visually... but I wonder if it shows the mixed regions well enough.

As for the castles or palaces as independent regions... I wasn't planning on it. The castle and palace just indicate the territory's value.

[natty dread]

Thanks.

I like the new solution better visually... but I wonder if it shows the mixed regions well enough.

As for the castles or palaces as independent regions... I wasn't planning on it. The castle and palace just indicate the territory's value.

I thought the same thing (of both parts of the post).

[natty dread]

Maybe if I make the coloured area thicker for the striped areas?

[Industrial Helix]

Maybe if I make the coloured area thicker for the striped areas?

That might do it... I was thinking maybe a sort of dashed outline might work as well (alternating colors).... which now that I think about it, is essentially what you have now. Maybe make the lines longer?

[natty dread]

Hm, yeah. I'll see what I can do.

[natty dread]

Well here I widened the stripes, and I also tweaked the colours somewhat.

I think it looks better now.

[bigimg]http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7311/korea4w.png[/bigimg]

[Victor Sullivan]

Now tang and silla look veeeerry similar in color...