prognostication

SultanOfSurreal · Post by **SultanOfSurreal** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:37 am

i just wanted to post this now, knowing how badly i'll be trashed for it, so in two years i can bring the thread back and laugh at all of you. so file this one away, if you please: obama will win reelection in 2012 with at least 300 electoral votes.

please to note i'm not saying this is necessarily a good thing -- i mean, it's better than having one of the deranged fascists from the republican party, but as per usual, the simpering center-right politics of democrats in general and obama in particular is nothing if not frustrating in its own right.

no. i'm merely making an observation based on the history of such things, that obama is decidedly favored to win a reelection bid. not that any of the conservatives here will stop their furious masturbation long enough to acknowledge it, but such is life

saxitoxin · Post by **saxitoxin** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:35 am

SultanOfSurreal wrote:

HapSmo19 · Post by **HapSmo19** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:39 am

That about sums it up.

Army of GOD · Post by **Army of GOD** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:14 am

I did'nt know sultan was from Croatia...

nietzsche · Post by **nietzsche** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:18 am

It's our tragic nature all over again, both boots are filled with rocks but we need to decide for one :-$

PLAYER57832 · Post by **PLAYER57832** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:03 am

SultanOfSurreal wrote:i just wanted to post this now, knowing how badly i'll be trashed for it, so in two years i can bring the thread back and laugh at all of you. so file this one away, if you please: obama will win reelection in 2012 with at least 300 electoral votes.

please to note i'm not saying this is necessarily a good thing -- i mean, it's better than having one of the deranged fascists from the republican party, but as per usual, the simpering center-right politics of democrats in general and obama in particular is nothing if not frustrating in its own right.

no. i'm merely making an observation based on the history of such things, that obama is decidedly favored to win a reelection bid. not that any of the conservatives here will stop their furious masturbation long enough to acknowledge it, but such is life

Well, you can bring back this one, too.

I don't believe you are correct. You might have been, before corporations were given a blank slate to advertize their political opinions, with no regard to facts or truth. People will continue to get just barely enough to eat, have some kind of house. Most of the public has already been convinced that even basic health care is "not a right". They oppose a healthcare bill that actually includes most provisions people want. Tea partiers come in and talk about "lower taxes".. and people believe it even though details are noticeably absent. (Only when an idea is already approved, then the Tea Partiers come in and say "oh, yeah... we were for that!") People have bought the corporate line of goods lock, stock and barrel. Never mind that the unemployment rate is at 9.6% EXACTLY when the wealthies people in our country are getting far, far wealthier and havein FAR fewer limits on their activities. All we have to do, according to both Tea Partiers and the Republicans is just open more doors to the wealthy, remove all those "nasty Obama restrictions" --things like the consumer protection agency tasked with halting credit card abuses, limiting banks ability to invest without having the funds to back risk... etc.

More and more will be taken away, but only gradually. It's classic Machiavelli. Give the people just enough to keep them from revolting. Meanwhile, ensure that any means they have of revolt are taken away.

Unions -- KILL THEM, "Nasty things" that just demand too much. (sometimes that is even true) Environmental rules? Forget them -- who cares if future generation's world is destroyed, if there is no longer clean water, if most people can no longer even have a decent garden for fear of contaminated soils? As long as a few people are getting wealthy, giving a few jobs here and there ... THAT is what matters.

The country has been fed a load of corporate goods and buys into it lock, stock and barrel. Voices of opposition barely exist. the liks of Glenn Back and Sarah Palin generate huge audiences, whilst folks like Noam Chamski and Ralph Nadar are not even covered except in remote liberal backwaters.

I don't know and honestly don't care if Obama gets re-elected. I do know this country and therefore the world are headed for some pretty nasty times for anyone who is truly wealthy. Oh, and for once, I will clarify what I mean by "wealthy". I don't mean those making more than $250,000. I don't even mean those with 2.5 million or so under their belts. It mikght, just barely, include those who bring in, regularly more than a couple million every year. However, mostly it means those who snear at that type of income as "unworthy", "chicken change". I mean folks who's incomes we don't really know, because so much is "hidden" in various ways -- tied up in multiple investments, etc. I mean the people who you don't hear about, but who can pick up the phone for any politician and (provided they have any sense) get an immediate audience. Except.. mostly they cannot be bothered. Too obvious. Nay, they prefer to work behind the scenes.

So, no. The folks have spoken. They want Machiavelli to lead, and that is EXACTLY whom they will get. Whomever is in office just doesn't matter. The true princes don't get elected, they buy elections. That was the only thing tested this past November 2nd.

rockfist · Post by **rockfist** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:45 am

History says you are correct about Obama being re-elected, but every election cycle is different and like in a football game where one team is favored the score will be zero zero before the election so we will see.

If you think the Democrats are center right, it only explains how far left you are.

PLAYER57832 · Post by **PLAYER57832** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:21 am

No, it explains how much people have bought into the Republicans "change terminology" plan they have worked on for 30 years.

See, rather like James T. Kirk, they knew they could not win honestly, so they simply cheated and changed the game. Or, in this case, the entire set of political definitions until people who are normally very middle of the road, pro working America, etc find themselves fighting unions, for corporate abuses, and against things like universal healthcare and minimum wages.
... and folks like Nightstrike actually believe that sex education means "teaching proper techniques of sex" , science behind issues like global climate change, not to mention evolution are just "non existant".. and oh yeah, anything short of pillaring homosexuals means suddenly our country will be homosexual, because, its so "catching", (don't ya know...).

rockfist · Post by **rockfist** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:03 am

By Kirk, do you mean Mark Kirk? If so..wow, just wow. His opponent ran a bank into the ground with unsound lending practices (of which I know more than most since I am in the same industry in the same town) which cost the taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. I simply can't believe anyone would support someone who did that...the fact that Alexi got ANY votes tells me people just mindlessly enter the voting booth and mark the box for someone with the "correct" letter by their name. I am sure it happens on both sides but damn. I don't like Kirk, but I any vote against him was likely to get Alexi. I don't vote straight ticket, but I have to believe that anyone voting for Alexi did so only on a straight party line vote. Alexi was by far the worst candidate the Dems put up for any Senate seat and that includes Alvin Greene.

PLAYER57832 · Post by **PLAYER57832** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:15 am

rockfist wrote:By Kirk, do you mean Mark Kirk?

No

, James T. Kirk , Star Trek Kobayshi Moru, a fictional Star Fleet academy test with no winnable solution. (used to test future commander's response to failure)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru
this is not one of Wikki's better articles, but here is the pertinent part:

James T. Kirk took the test three times while at Starfleet Academy. Prior to his third attempt, Kirk surreptitiously reprogrammed the simulator so that it was possible to rescue the freighter. This fact finally comes out in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, as Kirk, Saavik and others appear marooned, near death. Saavik's response is, "Then you never faced that situation. Faced death." Kirk replies, "I don't believe in the no-win scenario." Despite having cheated, Kirk had been awarded a commendation for "original thinking."

anyway, my point was that the Republicans realized 30 years ago they were losing ground and, instead of improving their tactics to meet what people wanted, they instead changed public perception of what is good versus what is bad. Quite an accomplishment, really. Too bad the changes in our country under their rule matches the changes that have come prior to the demise of all great civilizations.

rockfist · Post by **rockfist** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:24 am

Hmm, could you explain what those changes are?

I've seen the changes that the Democrats have made in the same light...voting ourselves goodies all day long (the games in Rome), not wanting to fight on foreign shores to protect our economic interests (the American Revolution from the British perspective or the 2nd Punic war from the Catheginian perspective).

Timminz · Post by **Timminz** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:39 am

There is no mainstream left-wing party in the US. Your "lefty" Democrats are further to the right than the vast majority of the western world.

In other words: words have meaning. Learn to understand, and use them properly please.

Phatscotty · Post by **Phatscotty** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:46 am

Timminz wrote:There is no mainstream left-wing party in the US. Your "lefty" Democrats are further to the right than the vast majority of the western world.

Freedom does that

rockfist · Post by **rockfist** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:47 am

Because what the rest of the world has done is so sucessful...learn to understand that many of us in the US do not want to become the "rest of the western world." Europe and much of the "rest of the western world " are moving more towards austerity because they have finally woken up to their bankrupt system, while we are now doing the same things that got Europe into trouble because of our "not leftwing" leadership. In order to define what reality is, you must first live in it.

PLAYER57832 · Post by **PLAYER57832** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:04 am

rockfist wrote:Because what the rest of the world has done is so sucessful...learn to understand that many of us in the US do not want to become the "rest of the western world." Europe and much of the "rest of the western world " are moving more towards austerity because they have finally woken up to their bankrupt system, while we are now doing the same things that got Europe into trouble because of our "not leftwing" leadership. In order to define what reality is, you must first live in it.

LOL... and you believe this, because you have been fully indoctrinated.

As per what has changed:

"family values" had gone from meaning things that support families ability to take care of themselves, live as they wish and now means being antagonistic to "certain groups" who disagree. Homosexuals have to be ousted from society because accepting them would lead to corruption of our youth, etc. Sex education cannot be allowed, nevermind that it has been proven the most effective way to both limit unwanted pregnancies AND abortions. Abortion is all entirely voluntary.. all "grey areas" (removing miscarried children; removals when the mother's life is in dangerl; children with very, very serious problems.. etc.) none of these are personnal matters any longer, they are the business of whomever has the loudest voice in church.

Unions are no longer "fighting for people", they are instead "against corporations" and therefore "against jobs".

Any limits to "free trade" .. shipping jobs overseas, etc is now " limiting commerce"

Taxing the wealthiest is now "impeding the economy" -- never mind that the economy moves by average people BUYING THINGS and average people cannot buy things when they have to put every dime into healthcare.

Oh, yes, and healthcare is suddenly an "optional expense".

rockfist · Post by **rockfist** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:08 pm

When you use terms like "indoctrinated" people are not likely to listen.

Timminz · Post by **Timminz** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:33 pm

When you attempt to redefine words, in order to make yourself seem more moderate, you appear as though you don't actually know how to understand English.

saxitoxin · Post by **saxitoxin** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:55 pm

Timminz wrote:There is no mainstream left-wing party in the US.

+1

It aggravates me to no end that I keep liking one of the GANG OF 5 more each day.

PLAYER57832 wrote:
rockfist wrote:Because what the rest of the world has done is so sucessful...learn to understand that many of us in the US do not want to become the "rest of the western world." Europe and much of the "rest of the western world " are moving more towards austerity because they have finally woken up to their bankrupt system, while we are now doing the same things that got Europe into trouble because of our "not leftwing" leadership. In order to define what reality is, you must first live in it.

LOL... and you believe this, because you have been fully indoctrinated.

Player, this is a frequent refrain of yours which is endlessly amusing as you are one of the most mind-wiped, robotic drones I've ever seen. You happily, glazy-eyed cheerlead a party that is identical in every meaningful way to the one you oppose mindful only of your desire to put theory over praxis.

You pull facts out of the air to fit your cartoonish, Green Goblin-vs.-Spiderman, battle of good vs. evil worldview and, on the very rare occasion, someone calls you to carpet, you slink away back into the shadows.

You horribly misrepresented Nader's position in another thread based on a thumbsketch understanding of his theology assuming that - because he was also to the left - he might in any way agree with the mechanical clockwork of the thinking that gets uploaded into your brain each day. When confronted you blithely ignored it and forged ahead. Like someone who sees UFOs, you get little whiffs or scents of information here and there and, unable to cognate them, simply fill in the gaps with a cartoonish reality you think makes sense.

TA1LGUNN3R · Post by **TA1LGUNN3R** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:29 pm

Saxitoxin wrote:You pull facts out of the air to fit your cartoonish, Green Goblin-vs.-Spiderman, battle of good vs. evil worldview

That sounds much more entertaining than anything else in this thread.

-TG

rockfist · Post by **rockfist** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:07 pm

Timminz wrote:When you attempt to redefine words, in order to make yourself seem more moderate, you appear as though you don't actually know how to understand English.

I am not attempting to seem moderate. In an ideal world my views would be moderate, but I am under no illusion that they are in this one. There always seems to be a new generation of naive people willing to believe in the failed economic views the left and socialism preach, but on the other hand people with my type of views did a pretty damn good job defining a "liberal." And it stuck. 20% of the people in this election defined themselves as liberal.

john9blue · Post by **john9blue** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:12 pm

player keeps talking about indoctrination, and republicans changing the meaning of words... all i know is that i was hardly ever exposed to politics as a kid, and picked up my political views relatively recently without any influence from anyone i know IRL. not sure how that counts as indoctrination, but w/e.

PLAYER57832 · Post by **PLAYER57832** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:36 pm

saxitoxin wrote:You horribly misrepresented Nader's position in another thread based on a thumbsketch understanding of his theology assuming that - because he was also to the left - he might in any way agree with the mechanical clockwork of the thinking that gets uploaded into your brain each day. When confronted you blithely ignored it and forged ahead.

Hmm... I post one piece of information, given by Nader and suddenly I am "misrepresenting" his position?

Nay, you are utterly misrepresenting what I say.. but you know that.

saxitoxin · Post by **saxitoxin** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:44 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:You horribly misrepresented Nader's position in another thread based on a thumbsketch understanding of his theology assuming that - because he was also to the left - he might in any way agree with the mechanical clockwork of the thinking that gets uploaded into your brain each day. When confronted you blithely ignored it and forged ahead.

Hmm... I post one piece of information, given by Nader and suddenly I am "misrepresenting" his position?

Nay, you are utterly misrepresenting what I say.. but you know that.

Are you still hoping this -

- tactic will work for you?

Here is what you said:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=93718&p=2854416&hilit=+nader+healthcare+reform#p2854405

Here was my response:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=93718&p=2854416&hilit=+nader+healthcare+reform#p2854416

Here was your reply:

*crickets*

You are a drone, Player. You are a piece of robotic machinery whose brain operates with large clockwork wheels that occasionally get wound. What makes you dangerous is that somehow you believe you are a freethinker and everyone else is "indoctrinated." (In fairness, they probably are, but certainly no less than you.)

In your own, immortal words:

PLAYER57832 · Post by **PLAYER57832** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:08 pm

saxitoxin wrote:You are a drone, Player. You are a piece of robotic machinery ........

I see, so to you every thread is now about attacking me, now? That's a lot of power you have handed me.

saxitoxin · Post by **saxitoxin** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:17 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:You are a drone, Player. You are a piece of robotic machinery ........

I see, so to you every thread is now about attacking me, now? That's a lot of power you have handed me.

Come again? I couldn't hear over the shrieking ...

PLAYER57832 wrote:you are an idiot
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=93718&p=2854242&hilit=PLAYER57832+idiot#p2854242

Too bad such a good painter has to be an idiot
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=129719&p=2850555&hilit=PLAYER57832+idiot#p2850555

only an idiot or someone with a firm agenda would believe hat
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=126445&p=2782197&hilit=PLAYER57832+idiot#p2782197

this guys an idiot
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=126994&p=2798470&hilit=PLAYER57832+idiot#p2798470

she is an idiot is based on multiple idiotic comments she has made.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=127081&p=2797171&hilit=PLAYER57832+idiot#p2797171

he is some kind of idiot
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=126445&p=2782197&hilit=PLAYER57832+idiot#p2782197

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