Wikileaks exposes the truth behind the war in Iraq

[Pedronicus]

And it's not pretty

well, it's pretty fucking ugly.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/22/iraq-war-logs-military-leaks

[Juan_Bottom]

Condemning this fresh leak, however, the Pentagon said: "This security breach could very well get our troops and those they are fighting with killed. Our enemies will mine this information looking for insights into how we operate, cultivate sources and react in combat situations, even the capability of our equipment."

More fear mongering.

This is amazing, there's not a lot of new information there, depending on how well informed you are. But it's information that is backed by the Pentagon, and not just coming from backwoods Iraqi journalist. This is amazing. God bless the whistle-blower. And never forget the one who was arrested earlier. Good luck to you both.

[ViperOverLord]

In two Iraqi cases postmortems revealed evidence of death by torture. On 27 August 2009 a US medical officer found "bruises and burns as well as visible injuries to the head, arm, torso, legs and neck" on the body of one man claimed by police to have killed himself. On 3 December 2008 another detainee, said by police to have died of "bad kidneys", was found to have "evidence of some type of unknown surgical procedure on [his] abdomen".

More innuendo and 'fear mongering.'

[Iliad]

In two Iraqi cases postmortems revealed evidence of death by torture. On 27 August 2009 a US medical officer found "bruises and burns as well as visible injuries to the head, arm, torso, legs and neck" on the body of one man claimed by police to have killed himself. On 3 December 2008 another detainee, said by police to have died of "bad kidneys", was found to have "evidence of some type of unknown surgical procedure on [his] abdomen".

More innuendo and 'fear mongering.'

Or you know facts.

But hey ignoring the evidence can be easy if you're really set on what the truth is already.

[ViperOverLord]

In two Iraqi cases postmortems revealed evidence of death by torture. On 27 August 2009 a US medical officer found "bruises and burns as well as visible injuries to the head, arm, torso, legs and neck" on the body of one man claimed by police to have killed himself. On 3 December 2008 another detainee, said by police to have died of "bad kidneys", was found to have "evidence of some type of unknown surgical procedure on [his] abdomen".

More innuendo and 'fear mongering.'

Or you know facts.

But hey ignoring the evidence can be easy if you're really set on what the truth is already.

Go ahead and look up 'innuendo.' I did not debate the merit of the 'facts.'

[BigBallinStalin]

In two Iraqi cases postmortems revealed evidence of death by torture. On 27 August 2009 a US medical officer found "bruises and burns as well as visible injuries to the head, arm, torso, legs and neck" on the body of one man claimed by police to have killed himself. On 3 December 2008 another detainee, said by police to have died of "bad kidneys", was found to have "evidence of some type of unknown surgical procedure on [his] abdomen".

More innuendo and 'fear mongering.'

Or you know facts.

But hey ignoring the evidence can be easy if you're really set on what the truth is already.

Go ahead and look up 'innuendo.' I did not debate the merit of the 'facts.'

Yeah, you're just acting like typical VOL again.

[john9blue]

Yeah, good ol' VOL. Wrong 100% of the time, every time, regardless of what he says or what the facts are!

[DirtyDishSoap]

All I gotta say about this is that if, say, I was captured by insurgents, can't say I'd be treated just and well. Just a little FYI...

[CreepersWiener]

All I gotta say about this is that if, say, I was captured by insurgents, can't say I'd be treated just and well. Just a little FYI...

Yeah, they would insurge up your butt with some type of electrical device and start cooking you from the inside out. I would say if Iran came over here (if they had the capability) and started shooting at military targets...I bet they would kill ten times as many civilians as what we have. And can we quit calling them "insurgents"? They are THE ENEMY.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I'm going with the civilian term, sorry.

[Army of GOD]

DDS, how many people did you torture?! >=(

[CreepersWiener]

DDS, how many people did you torture?! >=(

We don't call it "torture" anymore, it's called an "enhanced interrogation technique".

[DirtyDishSoap]

DDS, how many people did you torture?! >=(

Turn that frown, upside down!

[Juan_Bottom]

I can't speak for everyone, but I think that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than people who use kids as suicide bombs. Besides this, America signed a special international agreement binding them to just such standards.

[Pedronicus]

I can't speak for everyone, but I think that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than people who use kids as suicide bombs. Besides this, America signed a special international agreement binding them to just such standards.

Don't worry Juan

It's evident that the majority of Americans on this site would rather reply to the f*ck Saudi Arabia thread, rather than face the facts that their brave soldiers are actually a bunch of ignorant cunts.

[thegreekdog]

I can't speak for everyone, but I think that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than people who use kids as suicide bombs. Besides this, America signed a special international agreement binding them to just such standards.

Don't worry Juan

It's evident that the majority of Americans on this site would rather reply to the f*ck Saudi Arabia thread, rather than face the facts that their brave soldiers are actually a bunch of ignorant cunts.

Seriously Juan. Look at all the Brits posting in this thread (I mean, just dozens of them); clearly they are concerned about their own military forces; at least more so than the Americans around here.

Also Pedro - are they all ignorant cunts? Are all of them ignorant cunts except DDS? Or are there like a handful who aren't ignorant cunts? I'm just trying to get a sense of whether it's the entire armed forces or just some isolated crazies.

This whole thing definitely disturbs me. I was pretty sure a few years ago that the United States military wouldn't hesitate to use torture. I was also pretty sure that the United States military wouldn't be disciplining Iraqi forces (or their own forces) for cases like shooting prisoners or people that surrendered and the like. So, I was not surprised. It does, however, bother me for two reasons. First, the United States (and its allies) are supposed to be paragons of virtue, even in war. I don't think this is an attainable standard (war being what it is), but I'd like to think that at least the top officials in the U.S. military would take this sort of thing seriously. Second, this will anger a whole lot of people who we don't want to anger. It sounds like the Iraqi army has some issues to deal with as well (vis-a-vis torture).

On a related note, and something I've brought up before, when Pedro says "their brave soldiers," the most important part is the word "their." Ideally, I do not want "our brave soldiers" killing innocent civilians or prisoners or torturing people. However, I will continue to support them because they are "our brave soldiers."

[ballong]

Is anyone surprised by all this?

[oVo]

It's no surprise. Very sad, but it's a continuing battle zone and I expect actions that are FUBAR. The attempts to keep such facts under wraps is also no surprise.

There is no such thing as a sanitary war. There are no winners in a war.
Everyone loses... except weapon manufacturers, bankers and flies.

I have been disappointed in many of the directives given to forces on the ground as to conduct exposed during Rumsfeld's reign as Secretary of Defense. Which led to Abu Graib, etc. and the continued and escalated rendition of "suspects" and people of interest, which began long before the Bush presidency. Also the continued lack of accountability by high placed government officials for poor decisions implemented badly who remain untouchable and above the law, while "bad apples" take the fall for carrying out their orders and following the established operating procedures.