Re: Thyseneal: V 3.6 ::REVAMP::

[pamoa]

if you go for #4
you may think about giving a +5 bonus to thyteria
as it will be more attackable

[lord voldemort]

i like number 2 as well...

really like this map

[the.killing.44]

I think you need to go on trial for overuse of Apple Chancery.

Also, you'd be surprised how much simpler the road bonuses would work if you just put the icons next to the blurbs in the legend. I'm not going to dig through all that text to find out which road is which.

Also, #2.

[The Bison King]

[bigimg]http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6470/thysenealrisk800ultrafi.jpg[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9968/thysenealrisk600ultrafi.jpg[/bigimg]

I think you need to go on trial for overuse of Apple Chancery.

Guilty

Ok so here it is, the Island of Solaria added in. It seemed to be the most popular single pick and it was my favorite as well. We can just remove the neutrals on Rolloland and Dalmus, they were never really needed. Also the images look WAAAY better on this version. I'll Pm Ender516 about updating the XML.

So my big question is what happens when you add a territory during beta?? will it just appear in preexisting games? will you be able to attack it?

[mattattam]

Are you going to change the bonus as well? Especially since Dalmus is not an island what about +2 for any 3 and/or +3 for any 4

[The Bison King]

Not really. I was just going to leave it as it is and just allow players different opportunities as to how they can collect 3 islands

[MrBenn]

As long as the new territory is ended AT THE END OF THE XML FILE (ie after all the other territories) then it should be fine. If the order of existing territories are changed, then things get a bit mixed up.

[ender516]

As long as the new territory is ended AT THE END OF THE XML FILE (ie after all the other territories) then it should be fine. If the order of existing territories are changed, then things get a bit mixed up.

Noted. I think I knew this from some other map. I will try to provide an update in the next six to twelve hours. I will drop the starting neutrals on Rolloland and Dalmus. But I think we will still need starting positions to break up the drop of the three-region zones, won't we?

[The Bison King]

Noted. I think I knew this from some other map. I will try to provide an update in the next six to twelve hours. I will drop the starting neutrals on Rolloland and Dalmus. But I think we will still need starting positions to break up the drop of the three-region zones, won't we?

Yes, but I was leaving that up to you. Hold on let me dig back a little bit. I think someone posted something that seemed pretty solid along those lines...

[The Bison King]

every 3 territories bonus zone so Arleus and Itherania
I suggest as following

Sarle (1 border)
Arleus (end of a road)

Azuran (extremity of Arkleus territ)
Thierland (end of two roads)

Itheria (centre of bonus zone)
Cancella (centre of bonus zone)

Credit to Pamoa, this looks pretty good don't you think?

[ender516]

every 3 territories bonus zone so Arleus and Itherania
I suggest as following

Sarle (1 border)
Arleus (end of a road)

Azuran (extremity of Arkleus territ)
Thierland (end of two roads)

Itheria (centre of bonus zone)
Cancella (centre of bonus zone)

Credit to Pamoa, this looks pretty good don't you think?

Yes, as far as it goes, but...

Okay, if we remove the starting neutrals, then we have four bonus zones with three territories: Arleus, Ifnal, Itherania, and the Chunjaris-Theraland road bonus. Using MrBenn's Bonus Probability Calculator, we find that on a map with 51 starting territories, with only one such bonus, 6.53% of 1v1 games, 9.80% of 1v1v1 games, and 4.23% of 4 player games would have someone drop the bonus. Of course, with four such bonuses, we would have even more games where these bonuses were dropped, granting an unfair advantage. The scheme we had been discussing, where we put one territory from each bonus into starting positions would only help 1v1 and 1v1v1 games. WIth only three starting positions, they would be ignored in games with 4 or more players. However, if we were to distribute the twelve territories among 4 starting positions, we could extend the benefit.

Discounting my comment about a 51-territory map, we still have a problem in four zones, don't we? I will check this out more later this evening.

[The Bison King]

Ifnal Is 5 territories not 3. As for the Chunjaris to Theraland, well it's only +1. Is that really much of a problem? Also isn't Theraland already a start position? Let's just make Chunjaris a start position as well and problem solved right?

[MrBenn]

+1 isn't much of a game-breaker, but if we can avoid it where possible, even better

(ie, if it can;t be fixed, then so bit)

[The Bison King]

+1 isn't much of a game-breaker, but if we can avoid it where possible, even better

(ie, if it can;t be fixed, then so bit)

So is my above post a feasible solution?

[ender516]

Okay, not sure how I got Ifnal into this, sorry about that.

To deal with the road bonus, we can divvy it up among the starting positions, but we would have to add another territory, not part of any of the bonuses we are breaking, to keep things balanced. I would suggest adding the regions to cover the Chunjaris/Theraland road and breaking it up evenly, and bringing Scaralact into the mix to be divided along with Sarle and Itheria, so that Itherania is still evenly divided. Now when I tried to add the extra regions, I looked more closely at pamoa's combinations. Note the number of borders on each region:

1. 1. Sarle (1 border)
   2. Arleus (end of a road)(7 borders)
2. 1. Azuran (extremity of Arleus territ) (3 borders)
   2. Theraland (end of two roads) (2 borders)
3. 1. Itheria (centre of bonus zone) (5 borders)
   2. Chancella (centre of bonus zone) (4 borders)

The player that gets the second group has only five borders to defend, as opposed to 8 for the first, and 9 for the third. Not very fair, in my view. But when we add the extra regions I suggested, I think we can balance things a bit more.

How about this mix? Below, I have added the italicized regions and swapped regions around to make the total border count in each group as nearly equal as possible (10, 10, and 9) and everybody gets one of the regions that is the centre of a zone. The first group has both the easiest region to defend (Sarle, 1 border) and the toughest (Arleus, 7 borders). The second group has to defend the same number of borders. The third group has one less border to defend, but one of its regions is not directly part of the bonuses that we are dealing with. However, that outlier region, Scaralact, could help to defend the Itherania bonus, which in turn involves one end of the Chunjaris/Theraland road, so overall, it helps build the bonuses.

1. 1. Sarle (1 border)
   2. Arleus (end of a road)(7 borders)
   3. Dalmus (centre of bonus zone) (2 borders)
2. 1. Itheria (centre of bonus zone) (5 borders)
   2. Azuran (extremity of Arleus territ) (3 borders)
   3. Chunjaris (end of a road) (2 borders)
3. 1. Scaralact (3 borders)
   2. Chancella (centre of bonus zone) (4 borders)
   3. Theraland (end of two roads) (2 borders)

I welcome comments while I work on adding the new territory to the XML. I may post a version with that new territory before we finalize the starting positions, just so we can do coordinate checks.

[The Bison King]

Okay, not sure how I got Ifnal into this, sorry about that.

To deal with the road bonus, we can divvy it up among the starting positions, but we would have to add another territory, not part of any of the bonuses we are breaking, to keep things balanced. I would suggest adding the regions to cover the Chunjaris/Theraland road and breaking it up evenly, and bringing Scaralact into the mix to be divided along with Sarle and Itheria, so that Itherania is still evenly divided. Now when I tried to add the extra regions, I looked more closely at pamoa's combinations. Note the number of borders on each region:

1. 1. Sarle (1 border)
   2. Arleus (end of a road)(7 borders)
2. 1. Azuran (extremity of Arleus territ) (3 borders)
   2. Theraland (end of two roads) (2 borders)
3. 1. Itheria (centre of bonus zone) (5 borders)
   2. Chancella (centre of bonus zone) (4 borders)

The player that gets the second group has only five borders to defend, as opposed to 8 for the first, and 9 for the third. Not very fair, in my view. But when we add the extra regions I suggested, I think we can balance things a bit more.

How about this mix? Below, I have added the italicized regions and swapped regions around to make the total border count in each group as nearly equal as possible (10, 10, and 9) and everybody gets one of the regions that is the centre of a zone. The first group has both the easiest region to defend (Sarle, 1 border) and the toughest (Arleus, 7 borders). The second group has to defend the same number of borders. The third group has one less border to defend, but one of its regions is not directly part of the bonuses that we are dealing with. However, that outlier region, Scaralact, could help to defend the Itherania bonus, which in turn involves one end of the Chunjaris/Theraland road, so overall, it helps build the bonuses.

1. 1. Sarle (1 border)
   2. Arleus (end of a road)(7 borders)
   3. Dalmus (centre of bonus zone) (2 borders)
2. 1. Itheria (centre of bonus zone) (5 borders)
   2. Azuran (extremity of Arleus territ) (3 borders)
   3. Chunjaris (end of a road) (2 borders)
3. 1. Scaralact (3 borders)
   2. Chancella (centre of bonus zone) (4 borders)
   3. Theraland (end of two roads) (2 borders)

I welcome comments while I work on adding the new territory to the XML. I may post a version with that new territory before we finalize the starting positions, just so we can do coordinate checks.

Uh yeah, looks fine to me. You have my blessing.

[ender516]

Okay, here is the new version of the XML:
Thyseneal.1.4.xml
It adds Solaris and its two-way connection with Neilkush Taiga, removes the neutral starts on Rolloland and Dalmus, and adds the starting positions outlined above.

[The Bison King]

Awesome! I'll check out the coordinates tomorrow morning.

[The Bison King]

Coordinates look good, I only see one problem though. You didn't include Solaria in the Island bonus.

[ender516]

I will fix this tonight. I have no access to fileden here at work.

EDIT: Here we go:
Thyseneal.1.5.xml

[The Bison King]

#-o I will fix this tonight. I have no access to fileden here at work.

EDIT: Here we go:
Thyseneal.1.5.xml

Ahh! I just now noticed that since it's an edit. I checked it out and it all looks good to me.

[The Bison King]

For Beta Re-Upload:

Large:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6470 ... ltrafi.jpg
Small:
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9968/t ... ltrafi.jpg
XML:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/11/9/ ... al.1.5.xml

(did I do that right?)

[natty dread]

map says Rollaland
xml says Rolloland

[The Bison King]

map says Rollaland
xml says Rolloland

That's my bad, I'll fix it.

[MrBenn]

map says Rollaland
xml says Rolloland

That's my bad, I'll fix it.

Let's do that before getting the files uploaded