[Feedback] Invitations, Abuse, Changes and Possible Changes

[Bruceswar]

unless, of course, you really think this is a business decision and that "invite-farming" is driving away potential long-term customers. THAT'S what you really need to determine, and none of our opinions matter on that score!

This is the main reason farming was put to an end as far as ?'s go. This is same reason this is being looked into. A few bad apples can spoil a whole bunch of apples. I too wish we did not have to deal with this, but the bottom line is $$$. Anything that can be used to try and keep some of that money from leaving will be tried.

[Dako]

Yes, I think public games should be limited to invites at your own team only.

Private is ok I think.

Keep in mind, and make sure to read carefully, this is for both public and private---all Opponent Invitations (Tournaments, Non-Team Games, etc excluded).


--Andy

Why cant it be made for just public? A private game should be able to invite whoever, as they made it with the intention of inviting the players one would think. I think the public games are the only ones being absued as far as ive seen.

I agree basically with what Dako said.

I agree with Dako and Gold Knight - private games should remain as they are, public can be changed to stop any abuse there.

If we were to make it so private games are not the same as public games the abusers would just make them private and invite people till they fill up.

But in private games you cannot wait for other to join and sending random invites will barely fill your game.

[Frankly, my dear]

I GOT A KEY BY THE THREE WHEN CHIRP SHORTY CHIRP BACK!!

[zeractal]

I would have thought that if you wanted to set up a game (amongst friends) it would be no harder setting up a private game and telling the other players via private messages then inviting them all, especially since you would all have to agree to the map and settings before its set up so ultimately just have to 'reply' to the previous pm once with the correct game number and password for them to join.
This also means if someone drops out or doesn't join in 24hours a stranger can't join by mistake.

[ganguscalm]

1st of all , thank you Andy for all you do to keep this web site a fun place for us all .
As a senior member and Advisory Council member in Xi games ( Xi , the greatest club in all CC ) , I don't see the harm in just leaving it as it is . We help our friends fill there games with other players that meet our standards . Don't change a thing ! If you meet a " Dumb Arss " in public games , the " friend or Foe " system works just fine . Personally , I think you/we/I as players in CC should be able to make his/her own choices . The weak minded , bad attitude , juvenile players will " weed " them selves out .

[Teflon Kris]

Sorry, I've not read everything, but would suggest:

No invitations for the other team in public games.

Yes, definitely in private games. This is especially the case for things like clan war games (where it would be handy to have a Private Game Label too - although this is a seperate topic).

Invitations for your own team in speed doubles (although this is really a seperate topic of speed invites).

[stahrgazer]

(if you have to do something, i agree with dako: leave private invites as they are, it is nice and convenient. trash the public invites only)
peace

Devil's advocate: If you trash a public invite system, you're skewing the options toward premium players (freemie players cannot make private games). That may be what the site wants to do, one more reason to get premium "Look, with premium, you can send invites as well as set passwords." Of course, doing this will not prevent a premium player who wants to invite noobs to games, from creating private games and sending noobs the passwords.

I've still not seen an explanation of why the practice is considered an abuse if it's legal (not against any CC rules) to do.

[Leehar]

(if you have to do something, i agree with dako: leave private invites as they are, it is nice and convenient. trash the public invites only)
peace

Devil's advocate: If you trash a public invite system, you're skewing the options toward premium players (freemie players cannot make private games). That may be what the site wants to do, one more reason to get premium "Look, with premium, you can send invites as well as set passwords." Of course, doing this will not prevent a premium player who wants to invite noobs to games, from creating private games and sending noobs the passwords.

I've still not seen an explanation of why the practice is considered an abuse if it's legal (not against any CC rules) to do.

I thought it was already the case that only premium people could send invites... I don't think I've ever seen a freemium invite as of yet....
I also could offer some examples of why abusing something has no direct relationship with legality, but I would have thought you'd be smart enough to figure it out by yourself..

[stahrgazer]

I also could offer some examples of why abusing something has no direct relationship with legality, but I would have thought you'd be smart enough to figure it out by yourself..

Could you, now? And here, I thought there was some sort of anti-abuse rule on CC. Hmmm, what was that rule, let me think

Unwritten Rules

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits.

hmm...

So my point is, if whatever they're going to change the invite system from its current really convenient state to something less convenient, is supposedly being changed to prevent an ABUSE they don't want happening, then why aren't any of the standard anti-abuse disciplines being done, to limit the instances and maybe enable keeping a fairly convenient invite system as convenient as it currently is?

[ender516]

I am not speaking in any official capacity here, but I think that a change to the mechanism of the site that would reduce or eliminate the unwanted behaviour automatically and impartially is far preferable to introducing a new rule, which would likely be enforced only upon complaint, subject to interpretation, and a further burden on the moderators.

[stahrgazer]

I am not speaking in any official capacity here, but I think that a change to the mechanism of the site that would reduce or eliminate the unwanted behaviour automatically and impartially is far preferable to introducing a new rule, which would likely be enforced only upon complaint, subject to interpretation, and a further burden on the moderators.

And I think it should be both or neither; if it's unwanted abuse, it should be disciplined. Apparently these folks think they found evidence that some sort of change is required; i.e. that someone is using the system to such a degree that it's being considered gross abuse enough to possibly require changing the system.

If it's not gross abuse enough to require discipline, then why change the system? If it doesn't matter enough to specifically warn people from doing it, well, I think there are other changes members would like to see in advance of something that isn't problem enough to enforce a rule about; especially when the change will eliminate one real nice convenience the site added - a convenience that has been very popular for all players, not just tournament organizers, not just clan members, not just premiums, but all players.

The logic I'm seeing here seems to be, "It's okay as long as it doesn't affect MY preferred games." This change is going to affect someone's preferred or occasional games... and why? To make something that, apparently, isn't even against the rules, impossible to do? I would understand the need for the change much more if what they're programming against was against the rules and that rule was being enforced.

[General Brewsie]

I would not like to see the ability to invite opponents curtailed. Occasionally an opponent beats me so badly that I ask if he thinks he can do it twice in a row and I tell him to accept my invitation to give me another lesson in humility. These are usually darned good players and we end up with challenging, interesting matches.

I say please don't take that fun out of the games.

[AndyDufresne]

Thanks for all the feedback so far, especially the comments included in this topic.


--Andy

[shocked439]

If these abuses are garnering this much attention why should you punish those of us who use the invite system for legitimate purposes? Clearly define what an abuse of the invite system is, and enforce it. Or state the invite system is flawed but acceptable and no recent activities can be defined as abuse. Restricting it in it's entirety does not seem fair to 97% of the site.

[Slaylark]

I am not speaking in any official capacity here, but I think that a change to the mechanism of the site that would reduce or eliminate the unwanted behaviour automatically and impartially is far preferable to introducing a new rule, which would likely be enforced only upon complaint, subject to interpretation, and a further burden on the moderators.

And I think it should be both or neither; if it's unwanted abuse, it should be disciplined. Apparently these folks think they found evidence that some sort of change is required; i.e. that someone is using the system to such a degree that it's being considered gross abuse enough to possibly require changing the system.

If it's not gross abuse enough to require discipline, then why change the system? If it doesn't matter enough to specifically warn people from doing it, well, I think there are other changes members would like to see in advance of something that isn't problem enough to enforce a rule about; especially when the change will eliminate one real nice convenience the site added - a convenience that has been very popular for all players, not just tournament organizers, not just clan members, not just premiums, but all players.

The logic I'm seeing here seems to be, "It's okay as long as it doesn't affect MY preferred games." This change is going to affect someone's preferred or occasional games... and why? To make something that, apparently, isn't even against the rules, impossible to do? I would understand the need for the change much more if what they're programming against was against the rules and that rule was being enforced.

everything stahr has argued is valid and correct. I couldnt agree more.. well said Stahr.

[JP007]

double ditto on the Slaylark and Stahrgazer wrote above.
I have not EVER seen any problems or abuse what so ever with the invite system since it was implemented.

[Big Yuma Ripper]

If these abuses are garnering this much attention why should you punish those of us who use the invite system for legitimate purposes? Clearly define what an abuse of the invite system is, and enforce it. Or state the invite system is flawed but acceptable and no recent activities can be defined as abuse. Restricting it in it's entirety does not seem fair to 97% of the site.

Just seen this, agree with what is said above, Don't let a few cheap scats ruin it for everybody else

[BoganGod]

Sorry folks, haven't taken the time to read through all posted here, time poor at present need sleep. Though there are some abusing the invite system, the system as it stands works fine. Maybe the guidelines/rules could be adjusted to ban some of the more unsavoury invite practises. I use the invite system mainly to invite teammates, but is very useful to invite the other team. For example if I've arranged to play a private quads against a few decent players from another clan, rather than exchanging password etc. I just send invite to first player who invites the rest of the team, I'm sure other people use invite system the same way. Would be a shame to see something that is working dicked around with because of a few bad eggs. I fully understand that the rules must fit all, but as requested previously in this mini essay maybe tighten up the rules rather than changing the system. Thats my 2cents worth. Bogan out

[macbone]

I sometimes invite friends to play against them in team games, but making the game a Private game would accomplish the same end, and I wouldn't mind. I voted no to the change, but if the abuses are that egregious, then I won't complain loudly if the system's changed. =)

[stahrgazer]

I sometimes invite friends to play against them in team games, but making the game a Private game would accomplish the same end, and I wouldn't mind. I voted no to the change, but if the abuses are that egregious, then I won't complain loudly if the system's changed. =)

I agree with you here; but I still wonder, if the abuses ARE that egregious, why is there no rule and disciplines going on for those known instances?

Can't say mods and such don't have time to look and merit the whippings, if someone looked enough to find enough evidence to think a system program needs to prevent it.

I'd really like to see a rule and attempts at the discipline to curb the trend, BEFORE a program change that reduces convenience to a majority of others.

[Dako]

Because it is easy to create a new rule, but lots of rules are not good. And if it is possible to prevent the abuse automatically by the system - it is better to do so. Less work for mods - more work in other areas. This is the case when you can handle things on automated level rather than by human power (in case of trolling, pornography and so on).

[Elijah S]

I think a second poll should be started asking players if they think CC should have the right to put these kind of notices in our control panel. It seems kindof presumptive of the administration to just drop these in a place which, in my opinion, should be completely private. -Hence the title Personal Menu.

[Dako]

Go ahead and start it.

[stahrgazer]

Because it is easy to create a new rule, but lots of rules are not good. And if it is possible to prevent the abuse automatically by the system - it is better to do so. Less work for mods - more work in other areas. This is the case when you can handle things on automated level rather than by human power (in case of trolling, pornography and so on).

I guess the main problem is, I can't see why an invite system is an abuse when people have been cleared of gross abuse when they set up games with near-noobs in any other form; and at least being part of a team could give the near-noob a fighting chance.

Personally, I'd rather see the invited system EXPANDED to include speed games, rather than restricted "just in case someone invites a noobie to a game so whaaa whaaa a full team can't join THAT game"

[nietzsche]

May I say all this is gay?