[Feedback Requested] Teammate Spoils

[Orange-Idaho-Dog]

I like the idea of being able to see my teammates spoils, but my own spoils should stay where they are. It's much easier to see at the spot they are now.

100% agree

I agree too.

Well put Forza.

[Bruceswar]

I agree w/ JP about this really taking away the guess work in team games. Part of the big element in team games is communication and if the puppet master can basically do turns remotely (which this just contributes to) you're basically making the game easier to turn into a 1v1 trips game. Also, players who are new to the site should learn that communication is big in team games and having to type down cards, etc. is an element which forces people to communicate. But public sentiment seems to want this done so I doubt any concerns against it voiced will have much sway.

I agree with you here.

[Dako]

The "sjow spoils" doesn't make the game easier. It just gives you some general information. Strategy lies within your ability to use this information to win. That is skill. Collecting data and doing math is not a skill.

[Bruceswar]

The "sjow spoils" doesn't make the game easier. It just gives you some general information. Strategy lies within your ability to use this information to win. That is skill. Collecting data and doing math is not a skill.

It shows good team communication. Call it what you like, but this is something that should be communicated. If people are to lazy to type out cards or use a script like yours then they have poor communication. They should be put at a disadvantage. Giving them a reason to be lazy or have poor communication is just a bad idea all around.

[Eyestone]

The "sjow spoils" doesn't make the game easier. It just gives you some general information. Strategy lies within your ability to use this information to win. That is skill. Collecting data and doing math is not a skill.

It shows good team communication. Call it what you like, but this is something that should be communicated. If people are to lazy to type out cards or use a script like yours then they have poor communication. They should be put at a disadvantage. Giving them a reason to be lazy or have poor communication is just a bad idea all around.

When you have a lot of team communication, the spoils info tends to be lost and you have to scroll back to find it. When you play quads with escalating or even flat rate this info can be crucial to plan a large attack, and it's just annoying to look through all of the chat and compile which colour cards the other players has.

Of course it is a good thing to get some help to keep track of the teams spoils without having to do extra work all the time. Dako's feature makes this a lot more easy, but there are always someone who doesn't use all features, so I think it's good that the site helps to give out this info. A team that don't communicate will not stand a chance against one that does in the long run anyways - but that's up to every individual player to find out, not for the site managers to tell them.

[Dako]

The "sjow spoils" doesn't make the game easier. It just gives you some general information. Strategy lies within your ability to use this information to win. That is skill. Collecting data and doing math is not a skill.

It shows good team communication. Call it what you like, but this is something that should be communicated. If people are to lazy to type out cards or use a script like yours then they have poor communication. They should be put at a disadvantage. Giving them a reason to be lazy or have poor communication is just a bad idea all around.

I disagree here. If we exaggerate your example we can say that graphics are bad for this game because if you cannot draw the map yourself and place armies there and see the board - you should be put at a disadvantage. And such assertion is just plain dumb. This game evolves. What was an awesome strategy (ie sharing spoils in chat) now is a common term and it doesn't really show your perfection over other players. The progress forces you to find a new way to have an upper hand - share fog information, comment moves or track dice rolls. You need to evolve as well. Just limiting other players will not make this site better - it is a poor way to distant good players from bad ones. I am sure that this improvement will actually improve the site and not downgrade it.

It is hard for me to write my thoughts exactly as I see them so please quote me and ask questions/clarifications if you disagree with me. I would really love to resolve this issue cause I see site-improvements as a step forward that forces good players to be even better.

[mpjh]

Automatically showing the spoils to teammates enhances communications between teammates.

[carlpgoodrich]

I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has already been suggested. I really like the format of Dako's script where you see the cards next to the players names on the right of the map. Maybe something like that where you just see the color of the card, with a hide/show for a line with all the territory info.

[General Brewsie]

I like the idea of being able to see my teammates spoils, but my own spoils should stay where they are. It's much easier to see at the spot they are now.

100% agree

I agree too.

Well put Forza.

Yes, this would be even better.

[Robespierre__]

I love love love this idea ... never even occurred to me that this was an option to make happen. Nice work!

[Chariot of Fire]

The "sjow spoils" doesn't make the game easier. It just gives you some general information. Strategy lies within your ability to use this information to win. That is skill. Collecting data and doing math is not a skill.

It shows good team communication. Call it what you like, but this is something that should be communicated. If people are to lazy to type out cards or use a script like yours then they have poor communication. They should be put at a disadvantage. Giving them a reason to be lazy or have poor communication is just a bad idea all around.

I disagree here. If we exaggerate your example we can say that graphics are bad for this game because if you cannot draw the map yourself and place armies there and see the board - you should be put at a disadvantage. And such assertion is just plain dumb. This game evolves. What was an awesome strategy (ie sharing spoils in chat) now is a common term and it doesn't really show your perfection over other players. The progress forces you to find a new way to have an upper hand - share fog information, comment moves or track dice rolls. You need to evolve as well. Just limiting other players will not make this site better - it is a poor way to distant good players from bad ones. I am sure that this improvement will actually improve the site and not downgrade it.

It is hard for me to write my thoughts exactly as I see them so please quote me and ask questions/clarifications if you disagree with me. I would really love to resolve this issue cause I see site-improvements as a step forward that forces good players to be even better.

I'm not quite sure you grasp Bruce's point here Dakes. The exaggerated example you gave bears no comparison to the point he was trying to make, which is that teams who have better systems of communication deserve to do better than those who don't.

What is unfair is that there are tools available that some can use and some can not (BOB, clickies, certain other scripts such as 'show spoils'). Anything along these lines should be implemented on a site-wide basis for all to use (which looks like is happening here with the team mates' spoils - good). As for all these tools making better players, I'd have to disagree. They just make it easier for lazy or poor players, in the same way that a fully-automated car does not make a better driver (yet its performance on the road is better & safer).

The way things are going, there will come a day when an 8 year old can register on the site and beat a seasoned player thanks to all the tools he is given. To me this deviates from the purity and strategy that this game is supposed to represent.

[Dako]

Do not tell me you are against fully-automated cars and think they are evil?

[Chariot of Fire]

Do not tell me you are against fully-automated cars and think they are evil?

I would be if I ran a driving school.

[jpeter15]

The "sjow spoils" doesn't make the game easier. It just gives you some general information. Strategy lies within your ability to use this information to win. That is skill. Collecting data and doing math is not a skill.

It shows good team communication. Call it what you like, but this is something that should be communicated. If people are to lazy to type out cards or use a script like yours then they have poor communication. They should be put at a disadvantage. Giving them a reason to be lazy or have poor communication is just a bad idea all around.

I disagree here. If we exaggerate your example we can say that graphics are bad for this game because if you cannot draw the map yourself and place armies there and see the board - you should be put at a disadvantage. And such assertion is just plain dumb. This game evolves. What was an awesome strategy (ie sharing spoils in chat) now is a common term and it doesn't really show your perfection over other players. The progress forces you to find a new way to have an upper hand - share fog information, comment moves or track dice rolls. You need to evolve as well. Just limiting other players will not make this site better - it is a poor way to distant good players from bad ones. I am sure that this improvement will actually improve the site and not downgrade it.

It is hard for me to write my thoughts exactly as I see them so please quote me and ask questions/clarifications if you disagree with me. I would really love to resolve this issue cause I see site-improvements as a step forward that forces good players to be even better.

I'm not quite sure you grasp Bruce's point here Dakes. The exaggerated example you gave bears no comparison to the point he was trying to make, which is that teams who have better systems of communication deserve to do better than those who don't.

What is unfair is that there are tools available that some can use and some can not (BOB, clickies, certain other scripts such as 'show spoils'). Anything along these lines should be implemented on a site-wide basis for all to use (which looks like is happening here with the team mates' spoils - good). As for all these tools making better players, I'd have to disagree. They just make it easier for lazy or poor players, in the same way that a fully-automated car does not make a better driver (yet its performance on the road is better & safer).

The way things are going, there will come a day when an 8 year old can register on the site and beat a seasoned player thanks to all the tools he is given. To me this deviates from the purity and strategy that this game is supposed to represent.

The game is going to get so automated that eventually there will be an automatic odds calculator built in to determine where you should deploy and where to attack. It is becoming too automated. Using the car analogy, its like suggesting F1 drivers use automatic transmissions in races so its less to worry about. How about steering assist. The driver can sit there and watch the race from inside his car.

[Dako]

Manual transmission gives you more control over the car. And in F1 they use semi-automatic transmission (mainly because with manual system the time to shift the gear will be much much lower).

Still, in a era of computers I think is wrong to try to stop acclimatization of some processes. Of course, auto-odds seems like a lame idea, but anyway - it will be just a formula based on somebody's experience so it will not be accurate. Such things as perception, intuition, knowledge of your opponent, tactics - they cannot be reproduced by scripts and will distinguish good players from bad ones.

[AndyDufresne]

Not all users will need this update should it come to fruition---some of you play with terrific teams. But a lot of users who do enjoy team games, often do not play with regular partners. This is just to ensure ease of information access for those who need it, is there. We all want good competition in our games---we wouldn't be on a competitive website if we didn't---and this feature would promote that I think.


--Andy

[anamainiacks]

I like the idea of being able to see my teammates spoils, but my own spoils should stay where they are. It's much easier to see at the spot they are now.

100% agree

I agree too.

Well put Forza.

Yes, this would be even better.

Totally agree with this.

Also, won't the spoils make the stats panel awfully long and cluttered for people who use side stats?

[jackal31]

Not all users will need this update should it come to fruition---some of you play with terrific teams. But a lot of users who do enjoy team games, often do not play with regular partners. This is just to ensure ease of information access for those who need it, is there. We all want good competition in our games---we wouldn't be on a competitive website if we didn't---and this feature would promote that I think.


--Andy

you bring up a good point about quality of teams....and sharing of information is what makes a good team. This would just be another short cut for those that dont communicate or have breakdowns. That is why the feedback system should reflect how good a player is. I know that is a totally different subject, but giving someone every advantage as the next guy would mean uniformity. How are the great players supposed to stay great? Then it would be subjective to the drop and dice rolls.

[ender516]

The great players will stay great if the skill with which they use the information that they share exceeds the skill of other players. Excellence is not so much what you know as it is what you do with what you know.

[AndyDufresne]

The great players will stay great if the skill with which they use the information that they share exceeds the skill of other players. Excellence is not so much what you know as it is what you do with what you know.

Ender makes an excellent post.


--Andy

[Bruceswar]

I'm not quite sure you grasp Bruce's point here Dakes. The exaggerated example you gave bears no comparison to the point he was trying to make, which is that teams who have better systems of communication deserve to do better than those who don't.

What is unfair is that there are tools available that some can use and some can not (BOB, clickies, certain other scripts such as 'show spoils'). Anything along these lines should be implemented on a site-wide basis for all to use (which looks like is happening here with the team mates' spoils - good). As for all these tools making better players, I'd have to disagree. They just make it easier for lazy or poor players, in the same way that a fully-automated car does not make a better driver (yet its performance on the road is better & safer).

The way things are going, there will come a day when an 8 year old can register on the site and beat a seasoned player thanks to all the tools he is given. To me this deviates from the purity and strategy that this game is supposed to represent.

We have a winner!

[mattattam]

I think there should be a revote with the top two choices.

Why you ask, because conquerclubbers who initially voted for something else may have voted for the 2nd most popular choice if the top 2 were the only ones available.

[mpjh]

more people voted for another option than the top two combined -- I think that says something.

[Bruceswar]

When you have a lot of team communication, the spoils info tends to be lost and you have to scroll back to find it. When you play quads with escalating or even flat rate this info can be crucial to plan a large attack, and it's just annoying to look through all of the chat and compile which colour cards the other players has.

Of course it is a good thing to get some help to keep track of the teams spoils without having to do extra work all the time. Dako's feature makes this a lot more easy, but there are always someone who doesn't use all features, so I think it's good that the site helps to give out this info. A team that don't communicate will not stand a chance against one that does in the long run anyways - but that's up to every individual player to find out, not for the site managers to tell them.

First off at the part I bolded. Basically you say team spoils are key to know in large attacks at times, then yet you say better teams will come out on top. Well you just leveled out the playing field more now with giving away the spoils. Just think if your partners had not posted their spoils, you would have no idea if it was a good idea to kill or save one of them ans possibly cost you the whole game. Anyhow I am sure you see what I mean by this.

[Dako]

You forget that a lot of teams play public games and are not clan-involved. The improvement for them would be awesome.

I mean, really, is sharing spoils the only thing that gives you an upper hand? Who said more competition is bad?