saxitoxin wrote:AlgyTaylor wrote:I love the way Merkins [americans] have a polarised view of politics - good (capitaliskm) and evil (communism)
Ever thought that perhaps some things (eg education, health) are better served by the state - giving everyone a sporting chance of bettering themselves regardless of the wealth of their parents - and some things by the individual (production of goods, commerce)?
You are allowed to like things from both, you know. Silly Merkins.
Then, check this out, you can even have bits of both IN THE SAME AREA - eg transport can be privately owned but regulated by he state to ensure that everyone has access to it, say by offering up funding to serve rural communities, giving those people a bit more freedom of movement and soforth.
Yet all you [pointing at the Republican types in particular] can think about is how by doigg that you're suddenly going to start speaking Russian or something.
Jesus Christ, we were having a nice conversation about the global Dadaist revolution and then one of the cattle car from the EU North Sea Province has to galumph in here and make it all about America. Seriously, one of you Americans needs to apply for an anti-stalking order against these people. They really are obsessed. It's starting to get pathetic.
We could have a thread about your favorite flavor of ice cream and one of these succubi would show up ranting about how they've been wronged by America for one reason or the other.
I've said it before, the Japanese got it 100% spot-on in this episode of Hetalia when they parody the relationship of Britain to the US:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zT8kvtKJxc
Waaaa! You dummy! Dummy, dummy, America! Waaaa!
The Communist Manifesto
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- Phatscotty
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Re: The Communist Manifesto
Re: The Communist Manifesto
Great analysis, Inkl0sed! 
- Metsfanmax
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Re: The Communist Manifesto
Frigidus wrote:Great analysis, Inkl0sed!
I especially enjoyed the first sentence. As well as the second, third and fourth.
Re: The Communist Manifesto
Metsfanmax wrote:
[more words]
thx!
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
Re: The Communist Manifesto
saxitoxin wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:
[more words]
thx!
Great analysis, saxitoxin.
- Metsfanmax
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Re: The Communist Manifesto
The strange thing is that I expect Saxi to troll in pretty much every other circumstance, but we attack what is purportedly his worldview and he can't seem to say a word in defense.
Guess he must not really believe in it...
Guess he must not really believe in it...
- SultanOfSurreal
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Re: The Communist Manifesto
saxitoxin wrote:SultanOfSurreal wrote:Saxitoxin wrote:(This aside from the fact that the OP selected 1 page in a 100+ page treatise to summarize an entire philosophy.)
the communist manifesto is not nearly that long. in fact it's designed to be as short as possible. a quick reader could finish it in half an hour.
Don't presume to lecture me or wave about a land-grant university degree like it's the Emerald Tablet of Hermes. The last thing I need is the sophistication of some doltish Yankee whose avatar is one of the world's greatest war criminals. The edition of TCM I have in front of me, written in the original German, is 101 numbered pages.
your schtick only works if you can baffle people enough to keep them from responding coherently. that way you can lead the conversation round and round, forcing the entire thread off into bizarre, dare i say dream-like (or more aptly nightmarish) tangents of your own devising.
unfortunately that tactic doesn't cut it for arguments regarding the length of public domain works
http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Manifest_der_Kommunistischen_Partei
Re: The Communist Manifesto
SultanOfSurreal wrote:saxitoxin wrote:SultanOfSurreal wrote:Saxitoxin wrote:(This aside from the fact that the OP selected 1 page in a 100+ page treatise to summarize an entire philosophy.)
the communist manifesto is not nearly that long. in fact it's designed to be as short as possible. a quick reader could finish it in half an hour.
Don't presume to lecture me or wave about a land-grant university degree like it's the Emerald Tablet of Hermes. The last thing I need is the sophistication of some doltish Yankee whose avatar is one of the world's greatest war criminals. The edition of TCM I have in front of me, written in the original German, is 101 numbered pages.
your schtick only works if you can baffle people enough to keep them from responding coherently. that way you can lead the conversation round and round, forcing the entire thread off into bizarre, dare i say dream-like (or more aptly nightmarish) tangents of your own devising.
unfortunately that tactic doesn't cut it for arguments regarding the length of public domain works
http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Manifest_der_Kommunistischen_Partei
This is really wonderful. I was hoping someone would evolve this thread from a contents-oriented discussion into a chest-thumping tirade about the correct number of pages of the Communist Manifesto. You seem like a very bright, well-educated person. A master of forensic speech, no doubt.
FYI, here's one that's more than 100 pages:
http://www.amazon.de/Manifest-Kommunist ... 93&sr=8-12
Broschiert: 137 Seiten
And, here's one that's less:
http://www.amazon.de/Manifest-Kommunist ... 293&sr=8-5
Broschiert: 96 Seiten
Here's another that's more:
http://www.amazon.de/Manifest-Kommunist ... 293&sr=8-2
Broschiert: 131 Seiten
And here's another that's less:
http://www.amazon.de/Manifest-Kommunist ... 293&sr=8-1
Broschiert: 95 Seiten
More:
http://www.amazon.de/Manifest-Kommunist ... 113&sr=8-9
Broschiert: 102 Seiten
Less:
http://www.amazon.de/Manifest-kommunist ... 293&sr=8-7
Broschiert: 89 Seiten
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
- jimboston
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Re: The Communist Manifesto
Saxi, I want some of what you are smoking.
1) who or what is the "cabal" you refer to that "controls all capital"?
2) I love the fact that a "temporary" dictatorship or the proletariat has to be created by the Vanguard. Is that what the Soviet Gov't was... was it supposed to be temporary?
(Of course it was temporary... But not in the way Marx would have liked.)
The whole problem with communism/socialism as I have stated before is that it is great in theory... But not practical in reality as it works (or should I say fails to work) in a manner contrary to human nature.
Once a dictatorship is formed... And there are people in power... These people will be corrupted by power, and will not want to give it up to the people. Especially if the dictatorship lasts for several generations. It just won't happen.
Maybe if they got a man like George Washington to be the Dictator.... He's the only historical figure I know who voluntarily gave up doctoral powers.
1) who or what is the "cabal" you refer to that "controls all capital"?
2) I love the fact that a "temporary" dictatorship or the proletariat has to be created by the Vanguard. Is that what the Soviet Gov't was... was it supposed to be temporary?
(Of course it was temporary... But not in the way Marx would have liked.)
The whole problem with communism/socialism as I have stated before is that it is great in theory... But not practical in reality as it works (or should I say fails to work) in a manner contrary to human nature.
Once a dictatorship is formed... And there are people in power... These people will be corrupted by power, and will not want to give it up to the people. Especially if the dictatorship lasts for several generations. It just won't happen.
Maybe if they got a man like George Washington to be the Dictator.... He's the only historical figure I know who voluntarily gave up doctoral powers.
Re: The Communist Manifesto
jimboston wrote:Saxi, I want some of what you are smoking.
1) who or what is the "cabal" you refer to that "controls all capital"?
2) I love the fact that a "temporary" dictatorship or the proletariat has to be created by the Vanguard. Is that what the Soviet Gov't was... was it supposed to be temporary?
(Of course it was temporary... But not in the way Marx would have liked.)
The whole problem with communism/socialism as I have stated before is that it is great in theory... But not practical in reality as it works (or should I say fails to work) in a manner contrary to human nature.
Once a dictatorship is formed... And there are people in power... These people will be corrupted by power, and will not want to give it up to the people. Especially if the dictatorship lasts for several generations. It just won't happen.
Maybe if they got a man like George Washington to be the Dictator.... He's the only historical figure I know who voluntarily gave up doctoral powers.
Naturally it's your choice if you prefer the Permanent Dictatorship of the Bourgeois without end (as it exists now) to a transitional Dictatorship of the People limited to the period of revolutionary transformation.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
- jimboston
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Re: The Communist Manifesto
saxitoxin wrote:jimboston wrote:Saxi, I want some of what you are smoking.
1) who or what is the "cabal" you refer to that "controls all capital"?
2) I love the fact that a "temporary" dictatorship or the proletariat has to be created by the Vanguard. Is that what the Soviet Gov't was... was it supposed to be temporary?
(Of course it was temporary... But not in the way Marx would have liked.)
The whole problem with communism/socialism as I have stated before is that it is great in theory... But not practical in reality as it works (or should I say fails to work) in a manner contrary to human nature.
Once a dictatorship is formed... And there are people in power... These people will be corrupted by power, and will not want to give it up to the people. Especially if the dictatorship lasts for several generations. It just won't happen.
Maybe if they got a man like George Washington to be the Dictator.... He's the only historical figure I know who voluntarily gave up doctoral powers.
Naturally it's your choice if you prefer the Permanent Dictatorship of the Bourgeois without end (as it exists now) to a transitional Dictatorship of the People limited to the period of revolutionary transformation.
You didn' answer my question!
You are also ignoring the main point. It's obviously not what I prefer... it's human nature. The people who are put in power during the "transitional" period won't give it up later.
Address the point!
Re: The Communist Manifesto
jimboston wrote:saxitoxin wrote:jimboston wrote:Saxi, I want some of what you are smoking.
1) who or what is the "cabal" you refer to that "controls all capital"?
2) I love the fact that a "temporary" dictatorship or the proletariat has to be created by the Vanguard. Is that what the Soviet Gov't was... was it supposed to be temporary?
(Of course it was temporary... But not in the way Marx would have liked.)
The whole problem with communism/socialism as I have stated before is that it is great in theory... But not practical in reality as it works (or should I say fails to work) in a manner contrary to human nature.
Once a dictatorship is formed... And there are people in power... These people will be corrupted by power, and will not want to give it up to the people. Especially if the dictatorship lasts for several generations. It just won't happen.
Maybe if they got a man like George Washington to be the Dictator.... He's the only historical figure I know who voluntarily gave up doctoral powers.
Naturally it's your choice if you prefer the Permanent Dictatorship of the Bourgeois without end (as it exists now) to a transitional Dictatorship of the People limited to the period of revolutionary transformation.
You didn' answer my question!
You are also ignoring the main point. It's obviously not what I prefer... it's human nature. The people who are put in power during the "transitional" period won't give it up later.
Just like the people put in power during the "permanent" dictatorship right now in the U.S.?
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
- jimboston
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- Location: Boston (Area), Massachusetts; U.S.A.
Re: The Communist Manifesto
saxitoxin wrote:jimboston wrote:saxitoxin wrote:jimboston wrote:Saxi, I want some of what you are smoking.
1) who or what is the "cabal" you refer to that "controls all capital"?
2) I love the fact that a "temporary" dictatorship or the proletariat has to be created by the Vanguard. Is that what the Soviet Gov't was... was it supposed to be temporary?
(Of course it was temporary... But not in the way Marx would have liked.)
The whole problem with communism/socialism as I have stated before is that it is great in theory... But not practical in reality as it works (or should I say fails to work) in a manner contrary to human nature.
Once a dictatorship is formed... And there are people in power... These people will be corrupted by power, and will not want to give it up to the people. Especially if the dictatorship lasts for several generations. It just won't happen.
Maybe if they got a man like George Washington to be the Dictator.... He's the only historical figure I know who voluntarily gave up doctoral powers.
Naturally it's your choice if you prefer the Permanent Dictatorship of the Bourgeois without end (as it exists now) to a transitional Dictatorship of the People limited to the period of revolutionary transformation.
You didn' answer my question!
You are also ignoring the main point. It's obviously not what I prefer... it's human nature. The people who are put in power during the "transitional" period won't give it up later.
Just like the people put in power during the "permanent" dictatorship right now in the U.S.?
Again you state your "facts" and then refuse to defend them or address reasonable questions.
Loser.
Re: The Communist Manifesto
jimboston wrote:saxitoxin wrote:jimboston wrote:saxitoxin wrote:jimboston wrote:Saxi, I want some of what you are smoking.
1) who or what is the "cabal" you refer to that "controls all capital"?
2) I love the fact that a "temporary" dictatorship or the proletariat has to be created by the Vanguard. Is that what the Soviet Gov't was... was it supposed to be temporary?
(Of course it was temporary... But not in the way Marx would have liked.)
The whole problem with communism/socialism as I have stated before is that it is great in theory... But not practical in reality as it works (or should I say fails to work) in a manner contrary to human nature.
Once a dictatorship is formed... And there are people in power... These people will be corrupted by power, and will not want to give it up to the people. Especially if the dictatorship lasts for several generations. It just won't happen.
Maybe if they got a man like George Washington to be the Dictator.... He's the only historical figure I know who voluntarily gave up doctoral powers.
Naturally it's your choice if you prefer the Permanent Dictatorship of the Bourgeois without end (as it exists now) to a transitional Dictatorship of the People limited to the period of revolutionary transformation.
You didn' answer my question!
You are also ignoring the main point. It's obviously not what I prefer... it's human nature. The people who are put in power during the "transitional" period won't give it up later.
Just like the people put in power during the "permanent" dictatorship right now in the U.S.?
Again you state your "facts" and then refuse to defend them or address reasonable questions.
Like you?
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
- jimboston
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- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:45 pm
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- Location: Boston (Area), Massachusetts; U.S.A.
Re: The Communist Manifesto
Not like me... I answer ever reasonable (and most unreasonable) questions put towards me in these forums.
You don't need a hug you need a slap in the face.
I just don't understand how fucks like you get your 'kicks' being so disingenuous in these forums. Whatever turns you on.
It's one reason why I will be closing my membership and abandoning this place after I finish my last few games.
You don't need a hug you need a slap in the face.
I just don't understand how fucks like you get your 'kicks' being so disingenuous in these forums. Whatever turns you on.
It's one reason why I will be closing my membership and abandoning this place after I finish my last few games.
Re: The Communist Manifesto
jimboston wrote:Not like me... I answer ever reasonable (and most unreasonable) questions put towards me in these forums.
You don't need a hug you need a slap in the face.
I just don't understand how fucks like you get your 'kicks' being so disingenuous in these forums. Whatever turns you on.
It's one reason why I will be closing my membership and abandoning this place after I finish my last few games.
Like Woodruff?
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
- jimboston
- Posts: 5379
- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:45 pm
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- Location: Boston (Area), Massachusetts; U.S.A.
Re: The Communist Manifesto
You're so witty Sax... Not.
Obviously you are smart... but you are also full of shit and insincere.
Apparently you don't value honesty, sincerity, etc. You'd rather trollalong.
You're old dick probably gets stiff when you know you have pissed someone off with yout BS.
GFY
Obviously you are smart... but you are also full of shit and insincere.
Apparently you don't value honesty, sincerity, etc. You'd rather trollalong.
You're old dick probably gets stiff when you know you have pissed someone off with yout BS.
GFY
- Metsfanmax
- Posts: 6722
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
- Gender: Male
Re: The Communist Manifesto
It's unfortunate that my serious thread got turned into this back and forth inane bantering.
Re: The Communist Manifesto
jimboston wrote:You're so witty Sax... Not.
Obviously you are smart... but you are also full of shit and insincere.
Apparently you don't value honesty, sincerity, etc. You'd rather trollalong.
You're old dick probably gets stiff when you know you have pissed someone off with yout BS.
GFY
you seem upset
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
- SultanOfSurreal
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:53 am
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Re: The Communist Manifesto
saxitoxin wrote:This is really wonderful. I was hoping someone would evolve this thread from a contents-oriented discussion into a chest-thumping tirade about the correct number of pages of the Communist Manifesto. You seem like a very bright, well-educated person. A master of forensic speech, no doubt.
FYI, here's one that's more than 100 pages:
http://www.amazon.de/Manifest-Kommunist ... 93&sr=8-12
Broschiert: 137 Seiten
And, here's one that's less:
http://www.amazon.de/Manifest-Kommunist ... 293&sr=8-5
Broschiert: 96 Seiten
Here's another that's more:
http://www.amazon.de/Manifest-Kommunist ... 293&sr=8-2
Broschiert: 131 Seiten
And here's another that's less:
http://www.amazon.de/Manifest-Kommunist ... 293&sr=8-1
Broschiert: 95 Seiten
More:
http://www.amazon.de/Manifest-Kommunist ... 113&sr=8-9
Broschiert: 102 Seiten
Less:
http://www.amazon.de/Manifest-kommunist ... 293&sr=8-7
Broschiert: 89 Seiten
these volumes are only longer than 100 pages because of additional text in the form of commentaries and introductions, which are at best merely aids in understanding the main text itself, and at worst completely superfluous examinations of the history of its writing and influence. the actual work we refer to when we refer to "the communist manifesto" is short -- by design -- and wouldn't fill anywhere near 100 pages unless it was written in large print for a pocket-sized volume.
the point being that the communist manifesto is a rather terse and easily-digestible treatise. its predictions could easily be reduced to 10 or so bullet pointed blurbs. not that the op did it correctly. but the op is so irrelevant by this point that i can't even remember who he is, and i don't feel like looking.
so now here's a word to the wise. at some point even the most dedicated of trolls have to say, however reluctantly, "well okay." to pursue discussions like this endlessly is to defeat the very purpose of the troll. you end up chasing your own tail down the rabbit hole of being contrarian simply for the sake of it, and no one is interested in seeing that.
if you don't let anything go then you become transparent. if you become transparent no one gets angry with you.
Re: The Communist Manifesto
SultanOfSurreal wrote:
these volumes are only longer than 100 pages because of additional text in the form of commentaries and introductions,
I already addressed that. Many comments ago. Please note my previous note about pedantry.
SultanOfSurreal wrote:
which are at best merely aids in understanding the main text itself, and at worst completely superfluous examinations of the history of its writing and influence. the actual work we refer to when we refer to "the communist manifesto" is short -- by design -- and wouldn't fill anywhere near 100 pages unless it was written in large print for a pocket-sized volume.
the point being that the communist manifesto is a rather terse and easily-digestible treatise. its predictions could easily be reduced to 10 or so bullet pointed blurbs. not that the op did it correctly. but the op is so irrelevant by this point that i can't even remember who he is, and i don't feel like looking.
so now here's a word to the wise. at some point even the most dedicated of trolls have to say, however reluctantly, "well okay." to pursue discussions like this endlessly is to defeat the very purpose of the troll. you end up chasing your own tail down the rabbit hole of being contrarian simply for the sake of it, and no one is interested in seeing that.
if you don't let anything go then you become transparent. if you become transparent no one gets angry with you.
I didn't have time to read this novel, but it's probably a good thing.
You tried to seize an Ah-Ha moment by derailing the thread into minutia but it didn't work out. Pounding out volumes of word vomit to win some imagined battle of quantity is inane. Each backward rationalization to save a pedantic point digs you deeper than the previous.
By your choice of verbiage, manner and style of composition, it's clear you're on a learning exploration. That's fine. Just don't feign expertise when you have none to proffer.
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
Re: The Communist Manifesto
In summary, of this thread:
Saxi: "The Communist Manifesto is 100 pages long."
Whathisname: "No! You're wrong! It's 91 pages long!" [victory dance!]
Similar conversations in history:
Saxi: "It feels like it's 100 degrees out."
Whathisname: "HA! Wrong again! The heat index shows it only feels like it's 95 degrees! Another win for me!"
Saxi: "It's 100 miles from Sacramento to San Jose."
Whathisname: "You've clearly never even been to California. It's actually 119 miles. Do you even know where Sacramento is?"
Jesus Christ, will someone buy this kid a friend?
Thanks, guy!
Saxi!
Unofficial CC Happiness Ombudsman 
Saxi: "The Communist Manifesto is 100 pages long."
Whathisname: "No! You're wrong! It's 91 pages long!" [victory dance!]
Similar conversations in history:
Saxi: "It feels like it's 100 degrees out."
Whathisname: "HA! Wrong again! The heat index shows it only feels like it's 95 degrees! Another win for me!"
Saxi: "It's 100 miles from Sacramento to San Jose."
Whathisname: "You've clearly never even been to California. It's actually 119 miles. Do you even know where Sacramento is?"
Jesus Christ, will someone buy this kid a friend?
Thanks, guy!
Saxi!
Pack Rat wrote:if it quacks like a duck and walk like a duck, it's still fascism
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=241668&start=200#p5349880
- ViperOverLord
- Posts: 2487
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:19 pm
- Location: California
Re: The Communist Manifesto
saxitoxin wrote:In summary, of this thread:
Saxi: "The Communist Manifesto is 100 pages long."
Whathisname: "No! You're wrong! It's 91 pages long!" [victory dance!]
Similar conversations in history:
Saxi: "It feels like it's 100 degrees out."
Whathisname: "HA! Wrong again! The heat index shows it only feels like it's 95 degrees! Another win for me!"
Saxi: "It's 100 miles from Sacramento to San Jose."
Whathisname: "You've clearly never even been to California. It's actually 119 miles. Do you even know where Sacramento is?"
Jesus Christ, will someone buy this kid a friend?
Thanks, guy!
Saxi!Unofficial CC Happiness Ombudsman
- Phatscotty
- Posts: 3714
- Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:50 pm
- Gender: Male
Re: The Communist Manifesto
I was hoping to hear some about the Communist Manifesto. I have never read it, but it definitely is in my top 30 list of books to read/I should read
Re: The Communist Manifesto
ViperOverLord wrote:saxitoxin wrote:In summary, of this thread:
Saxi: "The Communist Manifesto is 100 pages long."
Whathisname: "No! You're wrong! It's 91 pages long!" [victory dance!]
Similar conversations in history:
Saxi: "It feels like it's 100 degrees out."
Whathisname: "HA! Wrong again! The heat index shows it only feels like it's 95 degrees! Another win for me!"
Saxi: "It's 100 miles from Sacramento to San Jose."
Whathisname: "You've clearly never even been to California. It's actually 119 miles. Do you even know where Sacramento is?"
Jesus Christ, will someone buy this kid a friend?
Thanks, guy!
Saxi!Unofficial CC Happiness Ombudsman
![]()
Great analysis, ViperOverLord.