Conquer 4: Back in Development [Abandoned Again?]

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:22 pm

Marvaddin wrote:I cant believe this idea come this far. I know you have some support, but its still completely terrible in my opinion. Well, looks like we finally will have a map to compete with crossword for the less played title... You will see how confusing this one will be when its on.

Anyway, if its coming, lets give it a hand. The info added to the map is not good:

1) Attack adjacent spaces in any direction -> adjacent? If you look to the map, the distance between a circle and the others in diagonal is much bigger than the one between it and upper, lower, right, left circles. How about use "surrounding spaces"?

2) Hold 4 adjacent spaces in a line for a bonus of +2 -> line? Isnt it horizontal? How about "in any direction"?

Other point: Two bonuses may only share a single space
In any line, we have ABCDEFG territories. So, if 4 adjacent spaces give a bonus of +2, ABCD is worthy +2, as BCDE, CDEF, and DEFG. So, I think a complete line gives a total bonus of +8, unless I have missed some info, because I didnt read all the thread, but in this case the map is not informing about that. Can you clarify the situation about this?

man you really like posting without reading.
the bonus system is very simple and the bonus guide is very well done. just look again and you'll find answers (in the bonus guide to both your questions)

Marvaddin · Post by **Marvaddin** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:32 pm

Thanks for the helpfull post, it helps a lot.
Seriously, if you know where the answer is, why dont you quote it to post? Maybe I dont have the same amount of free time you seem to have...

Nerrimus · Post by **Nerrimus** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:54 pm

Each and every set of two bonuses may only share up to one space.

ABCDEFG has ABCD, BCDE, CDEF, DEFG. However, compare ABCD together with BCDE / CDEF. Both pairs share more than one common point, i.e.

ABCD - BCDE = BCD are shared.
ABCD - CDEF = CD are shared.

In that entire row, the only 4-in-a-rows which share only one space is ABCD and DEFG (D is shared)

To there should only be a +4 bonus.

To solve this, the XML was set up so that every 4-in-a-row was given +2, every 5-in-a-row was given -2, and every 7-in-a-row is given +2. Therefore, ABCDEFG would have the bonuses like this :

ABCD BCDE CDEF DEFG = +8
ABCDE BCDEF CDEFG = -6
ABCDEFG = +2

Total : +4

Now keep quoting this everytime someone asks about the bonus.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:58 pm

Marvaddin wrote:Thanks for the helpfull post, it helps a lot.
Seriously, if you know where the answer is, why dont you quote it to post? Maybe I dont have the same amount of free time you seem to have...

i told you to look at the bonus guide. it is drawn on the map.

there you can easily see how the bonuses work. and how you can form rows. so this answers both your questions. i did not tell you to read the whole thread just this page :wink:

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:31 pm

damn this map and thread are confusing!!!!

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:57 pm

hulmey wrote:damn this map and thread are confusing!!!!

You've made your point. Why do you keep posting the same crap if you have nothing constructing to add.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:02 pm

Now i know why teya every time give Keyogy support, you bouth from Australia :wink:

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:05 pm

Whats your point qwert?

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:09 pm

Nothing, i just say that i dont understand why you in every situation give keyogy support, and never say that hes wrong, but when i look in profile i see that you from australia, and everithin its clear for me, and i know that you never say that keyogy wrong. :wink:

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:10 pm

wow, 2 people share an opinion.... who gives a shit?

Besides, Ive barely replied in this topic! I havent posted my opinion on this map. How is this supporting keyogi????

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:20 pm

You two take it somewhere else.

====

I like the way it is shaping up Keyogi, I'm glad we've stuck with the CC theme...it feels right for this map.

In regards to someone thinking the directions weren't so clear...I think 'attacking adjacent spaces' seems clear, though perhaps for those who don't understand, add that you cannot attack diagonally?

Is it just me, or does the Bonus Guide seem a little blurry?

--Andy

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:47 pm

Nerrimus wrote:Have you made a large map yet?

I don't really think there's a need for a large and small map. Unless there's a good reason why there should be I think the current image works as an all-rounder. :wink:

Wisse wrote:keyogie you can get 28 bonus can't you?

I believe it would be higher than that. I can't be bothered figuring out the maths at the moment, but I don't really think it's relevant. If you have the +20 bonus the game's more or less over anyway.

Marvaddin wrote:I cant believe this idea come this far. I know you have some support, but its still completely terrible in my opinion. Well, looks like we finally will have a map to compete with crossword for the less played title... You will see how confusing this one will be when its on.

The aim of the map was to offer a new gameplay style. I wanted to create something where there were no predefined continents, but you could make your own.

qwert wrote:Nothing, i just say that i dont understand why you in every situation give keyogy support, and never say that hes wrong, but when i look in profile i see that you from australia, and everithin its clear for me, and i know that you never say that keyogy wrong.

Teya and myself know each other outside of Conquer Club, so she often has input on my maps without actually posting in the thread.

AndyDufresne wrote:In regards to someone thinking the directions weren't so clear...I think 'attacking adjacent spaces' seems clear, though perhaps for those who don't understand, add that you cannot attack diagonally?

This seems to be a major sticking point. I'll figure out the right wording at some point. Attacks can occur horizontally, vertically and diagonally to any adjacent space. So a space in the middle of the board can attack or be attacked by 8 others. Now, if I can just compact that description down to a few words. :wink:

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:03 pm

KEYOGI wrote:
Nerrimus wrote:Have you made a large map yet?

I don't really think there's a need for a large and small map. Unless there's a good reason why there should be I think the current image works as an all-rounder.

We've always had a large and a small map. I think having a large map would still be beneficial, for those who may have trouble reading the legend.

--Andy

Marvaddin · Post by **Marvaddin** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:25 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:In regards to someone thinking the directions weren't so clear...I think 'attacking adjacent spaces' seems clear, though perhaps for those who don't understand, add that you cannot attack diagonally?

Wait! You cant attack diagonally?!?! Man this wasnt obvious, I know because I didnt read the thread, lol. Its really something to add. Or maybe change the text to "Attack horizontally and vertically only".

About the bonus, the explanation works. I suppose in up-bottom direction, its the same, but without the +2 bonus for 7 (for obvious reasons). Well, that convinces me, but maybe better info could be added to the legend.

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:29 pm

KEYOGI wrote:Attacks can occur horizontally, vertically and diagonally to any adjacent space. So a space in the middle of the board can attack or be attacked by 8 others. Now, if I can just compact that description down to a few words.

People really need to learn to read previous posts!

Marvaddin · Post by **Marvaddin** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:44 pm

Its not easy read long posts, lol...

But Im sure Andy also misread something. Im sure this was explained before. :wink:

Nerrimus · Post by **Nerrimus** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:28 am

Assuming you own all but one space, there are a few max bonuses : you could earn anywhere from +52 to +56, depending on which territory you don't own.

Could you post the XML? I know it's long but... I'd like to see it.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:44 am

Nerrimus wrote:Assuming you own all but one space, there are a few max bonuses : you could earn anywhere from +52 to +56, depending on which territory you don't own.

Could you post the XML? I know it's long but... I'd like to see it.

I can email it to you if you PM your email address to me.

C.

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:49 am

hmm i didn't know that too, you must put that in to it, that you can't attack diagonal

Nerrimus · Post by **Nerrimus** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:15 am

What the heck?!

He's mentioned many many times that you CAN attack diagonally :

Keyogi (p.10) wrote:Attacks will only take place on adjacent spaces, either vertically, horizontally or diagonally. I'll make this known on the next update.

Page 11 Map : it says you can attack diagonally.

AND ON THIS VERY PAGE :

Keyogi (p.13) wrote:Attacks can occur horizontally, vertically and diagonally to any adjacent space.

>.<

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:15 am

Wisse wrote:hmm i didn't know that too, you must put that in to it, that you can't attack diagonal

You CAN attack diagonally...

C.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:26 am

Oh dear. I knew this map would make some people scratch their heads, but I didn't think it was that hard a concept to understand. Maybe it's not such a great idea. If the foundry can't understand the concept with pages of explanations, I'm not sure how the rest of the CC community is going to go with a short and concise description of how to play Connect/Conquer 4.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:33 am

Ok, I have a theory... anybody who has an opinion, post a description in your own words how attacks can take place. It must be roughly 50 characters or less.

The concept is that you can attack any adjacent space vertically, horizontally or diagonally. I just need to explain this in a way that will fit on the board.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:36 am

KEYOGI wrote:Ok, I have a theory... anybody who has an opinion, post a description in your own words how attacks can take place. It must be roughly 50 characters or less.

The concept is that you can attack any adjacent space vertically, horizontally or diagonally. I just need to explain this in a way that will fit on the board.

How's about

"Attack Adjacently. Vertically, Horizontally & Diagonally."

Teya · Post by **Teya** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:04 am

Marvaddin wrote:Its not easy read long posts, lol...

But Im sure Andy also misread something. Im sure this was explained before.

No, its not easy reading long posts, but its not hard to skim through the current page. Which is all it takes in most cases.