San Francisco [Quenched]

[luckiekevin]

Well there is a Bayview Hill right there, but I've just never heard of a Bayview district. You mentioned that it is where the Cow Palace is and that is Daly City. Look up the address if you like. Like I said, I grew up here, and have never heard anyone call that part of the city Bayview. It's a lot over nothing but just thought it was awkward to see that name there on the map. Daly city is very large and is actually between Hunters Point and Brisbane. It goes all the way to the water on either side.

[EvilOtto]

Well there is a Bayview Hill right there, but I've just never heard of a Bayview district.

I think it is usually lumped in with Hunters Point. In reality it is mostly north west of Hunters Point, but it does bleed down to where the word "Bayview" is on this map, but not any further... you probably are seeing a little bit of Daly City in the corner there. You are also seeing some of Brisbane. Or there is a "Southern Hills" there on one of my maps, but I've never heard anyone call it that.

If you are going for accuracy, you'd have to divide it into two or three regions!

I can see Candlestick Park there, and its address is in Brisbane. I think my vote is "Brisbane"... but Daly City would be cool too.

[cheguevarra]

Yeah, I'm in the bay and I've never heard of Bayview.

[johloh]

here is a summary. I pulled the daly city limit map from daly cities map, and thats an approximation.

first of all. bayview is a district. it is called that, whether you guys have heard of it or not. and you can see the name just above the area of question on the SF map from google.

however, I can see that bayview isnt the perfect name for it as bayview is slightly north...(though bayview park is in it.

daly city is not a good name, as it is only a small part of the area under question and represents so much more than what we are talking about. and we are talking about districts not cities...

brisbane is waaaay to far south, so i dont want to call it that. you can see brisbane farther to the south.

I dont want to call it candlestick park, as that is just naming it after the stadium...however, Candlestick Point would be acceptable...as that is what the stadium is named after, and the name of the point. Id also accept Visitacion Valley as the name, as that represents the southern portion of the area...

so to sum it up...
-Bayview
-Candlestick Point
-Visitacion Valley

(id even accept Bayshore as that is further south and why 101 is called the 'bayshore freeway' in that section)

am I being unreasonable?

[luckiekevin]

You're not being unreasonable at all. I'm sorry if this has been a pain.

I do think that Candlestick Point would be a great name for it. It's the name that is in common usage that is related to the area. You guys are both right about Daly City only being part of the southern portion of the map, I can obviously see that now. I say that any change you make is entirely up to you. I was only making a suggestion.

[EvilOtto]

brisbane is waaaay to far south, so i dont want to call it that. you can see brisbane farther to the south.

Just so you don't think I'm insane, you can see in this map that Brisbane actually extends right up into the area in question (that is candlestick point in the top right corner), just not as far as I thought:

But I agree that like Daly City, too much of Brisbane falls outside the visible region.

Candlestick Point works for me!

[johloh]

cool, Candlestick Point it is...

[ruthlessontogeny]

i'd love to play on this map, especially since i might be moving to SF soon, and it would help me to learn the neighborhoods!

just one thought--most maps don't have regional bridges that cross each other--e.g., western europe doesn't connect with egypt, and indonesia doesn't touch eastern australia in the original map. even though they are certainly close enough to justify a bridge, it helps localise gameplay if bridges (or ferry routes) don't cross each other. i'm worried that so many bridges and ferries creates a "free-for-all"/land-war-in-asia effect that is otherwise prevented by SF's naturally divided area.

[perchorin]

Can we get a sit-rep johloh? Actually I just didn't want this map to fall off page one (it was at the very bottom)

[oaktown]

Yes, there is a Bayview, but it covers the same region as Hunter's Point (you often here it refered to as "Bayview-Hunters Point"). What johloh has done, I believe, is taken the Bayview-Hunters Point district and split it up, assigning half of the name to each half of the area. It's not entirely accurate, but then neither is having a ferry terminal in emeryville.

South San Francisco is a different city entirely, and it's further south - off the map entirely. Daly City and Brisbane might peak onto this map, but barely.

Candlestick Park is a stadium, not a district. Candlestick Point is a small geographical feature within Bayview-Hunters Point.

Somebody mentioned calling it Visitacion Valley - this might be the best idea.

Ooh, here's a map of SF branch libraries - convenient for our purposes because the branches are all named after the neighborhoods they are in.

[/i]

[luckiekevin]

South San Francisco is a different city entirely, and it's further south - off the map entirely. Daly City and Brisbane might peak onto this map, but barely.

you should read the posts before responding, we've already concluded this.

Candlestick Park is a stadium, not a district. Candlestick Point is a small geographical feature within Bayview-Hunters Point.

But Candlestick Point is a geographic location and a term in more common usage than Bayview.

[wrightfan123]

Okay, here's the problem I have with Alcatraz:

You've had a long escalating game with a ton of cash-ins. It's sequential, and your enemy just wasted the rest of his turn attacking your guys. Amazingly, you survived! Your opponent has nothing but 1s, and you can cash-in; but one problem: the only country you own is Alcatraz. Your cash-in is wasted as you cannot attack, and it simply becomes a battle of how long you can manage to survive.

See? That would totaly suck! At least give Alcatraz 1 place it can attack!... Please?...

[johloh]

just been busy with school and teaching...
-Bayviews name is changed to Candlestick Point
-Added alcatraz to the legend
-changed west end of inglesides border
-changed haight border to not touch gg park
-darkened legend box of 'The Richmond'
-added inner/outer sunset to 'The Richmond'

-it looks like alcatraz as a simple +1 bonus won the poll. Im not sure what to do about this, because I have changed my opinion and think it should be "alcatraz + any other continent"...andy what are my options? and can you clear the poll so I can put another one in?

-we need to debate a connection between marin and downtown...I feel like there are so many connections everywhere we dont need more...its getting cluttered...what do you guys think?

-do you like the sunsets as part of the richmond continent? and what should the new bonuses be?

[johloh]

See? That would totaly suck! At least give Alcatraz 1 place it can attack!... Please?...

I dont see your situation as being very likely. If alcatraz has one attack out it defeats the point of not being able to attack out. Its either no attacks out, or just make it a normal border on all sides...enough people complained that Ill put it to a poll...but i think youll see that youre outnumbered by quite a bit...

[johloh]

oaktown I agree with you...I think bayview is a fine name, however for some reason a lot of people havent heard it called that...

as i said before Im fine with...
bayview, visitaction valley, candlestick point...seems like a lot of others think candlestick is the best name...it is geographical as oppposed to a neighborhood, though thats not terrible...

[AndyDufresne]

Old Poll Results:

how should we do alcatraz?

alcatraz +1 bonus
50% [ 27 ]
alcatraz +1 bonus if held with marin OR downtown
33% [ 18 ]
alcatraz no bonus (just neutral)
16% [ 9 ]

Total Votes : 54

================================

Okay, I'm liking the general look of this all. A few random thoughts to consider:

Clean up some of the border lines, especially those that touch the water (Seacliff, Marin, Oakland, etc). They seem a little pixely, and I think making them smoother would help the overall look.

Also, the area near Refineries and Richmond, near the 'Area' just looks odd. Perhaps the same can be said for the bubble line near Sausalito.

Move a few of the names/army shadows. For instance, Richmond District's name might be too close to the shadow, same with Seacliff, Emeryville...and a number of others. If possible, give ample space between the names and the coordinate shadows.

Perhaps consider making Alcatraz's color brown, as you've used gray for the non-gameboard areas. Minor thing.

In regards to the poll, if you can logically debate and state why you'd like the Alcatraz & Any Other Cont., you've got the possibility to play around with it. You can, if you like, start a new poll as the old poll was a little closed in the options, to what you are considering now. (I personally like the idea of Alcatraz & Any Other Cont.)

Hm, anyways...it's coming along nicely.


--Andy

[wrightfan123]

I dont see your situation as being very likely.

Well, if it happens to you, I'm gonna laugh soooooooo hard... eh... w/e...

[oaktown]

candlestick point is fine - people outside of the area will be able to make an association if they are sports fans.

Personally, I think you'd be fine having another attack route into downtown SF, especially since you've removed several (Alcatraz, GG Park, Alameda/Oakland Ferry). The way I see this map playing out, everybody will scramble for a bonus around the outside anyway and they'll have to bang it out in downtown for the win.

I recognize that game play comes before authenticity, but I'd rather see some true-to-life ferry routes restored - Oakland to Angel Island (yes, there is one), Alameda to China Basin (when the giant are in town), and Sausalito to Fish Wharf. The new routes to angel island and fish wharf would fill the roll of adding ways to get at Alcatraz, without the silly route from Ikea, err, I mean Emeryville.

And i love the attack-in-only feature fo alcatraz. It's something no other map has, and it makes defending Alcatraz a catch-22.

[EvilOtto]

do you like the sunsets as part of the richmond continent? and what should the new bonuses be?

"Richmond" is becoming a confusing term on this map, for non-locals. It is the name of two territories and a continent. If you include the sunset, maybe the continent should be called "The Avenues"? Or "The Fog District" ha ha!

I'd say The Avenues should be +4 and southern SF either +4 or +5.

[EvilOtto]

oaktown I agree with you...I think bayview is a fine name, however for some reason a lot of people havent heard it called that...

as i said before Im fine with...
bayview, visitaction valley, candlestick point...seems like a lot of others think candlestick is the best name...it is geographical as oppposed to a neighborhood, though thats not terrible...

What about creating a "dead" area in that corner to limit the size of "Candlestick Point"? Maybe even lose the border with Excelsior. I think the main problem is that, as drawn, it includes several neighboorhoods/cities. You could make a dead grey area for your sig and limit the size of the territory to just Candlestick Point or Bayview Heights.

[oaktown]

"Richmond" is becoming a confusing term on this map, for non-locals. It is the name of two territories and a continent. If you include the sunset, maybe the continent should be called "The Avenues"? Or "The Fog District" ha ha!

Good idea... what if you changed the Richmond District territory to "The Avenues" (which is what everybody calls it casually anyway) and called the entire region "Golden Gate" since it stretches from GG Park up Golden Gate Ave to the Golden Gate bridge?

Somebody suggested I work on a New York map... i can't imagine how hard it would be to work on a city I don't know very well!

[EvilOtto]

"Richmond" is becoming a confusing term on this map, for non-locals. It is the name of two territories and a continent. If you include the sunset, maybe the continent should be called "The Avenues"? Or "The Fog District" ha ha!

Good idea... what if you changed the Richmond District territory to "The Avenues" (which is what everybody calls it casually anyway) and called the entire region "Golden Gate" since it stretches from GG Park up Golden Gate Ave to the Golden Gate bridge?

The Sunset is all avenues too... 'The Avenues' can refer to either north or south of the park. It's just that most stuff you'd want to go to is in the Richmond (or was before they closed all the movie theaters) so you hear it talked about more.

You can check it out on wikipedia (scroll down to "The Avenues"):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset_District,_San_Francisco,_California

[johloh]

continent should be called "The Avenues"?

Ive never heard it called that, but its definetly a good name, and apparently in usage. I like it, continent name changed.

[oaktown]

The Sunset is all avenues too... 'The Avenues' can refer to either north or south of the park. It's just that most stuff you'd want to go to is in the Richmond (or was before they closed all the movie theaters) so you hear it talked about more.

otto's right - I wasn't looking at your map, and I thought that you had the richmond and sunset in different continents - since they're already together, it makes perfect sense to call the entire thing the avenues.

I can still see players putting armies in Richmond when they mean to put them in the Richmond District, but I'm not sure what else you can do. I guess you could call Richmond "City of Richmond" so they at least begin differently.

Of course, who am I to talk... I'm making a map in which there are seven territories that share every name.

[luckiekevin]

I agree with our moderator, the language of the poll can be a bit more explanatory as most of the people voting don't look at the posts and weigh the reasons for and against ideas before voting