The Book of Mormon

[SultanOfSurreal]

I find the behavior of Mormons that i know to be exemplary. They are courteous, have solid family values and are basically good people. Unfortunately none of them seem to possess even a modicum of critical thinking but embrace the religion because that's how they were brought up. This seems to be true of all adherents to organized religion in general, but the tenets of Mormonism are a lot more whacked out than other mainstream beliefs.

don't you find it just a little strange that every religion you look at is so blatantly impossible and "whacked out" except for the one you were raised with

no need to answer of course, i already know you'll say "no" since you don't possess a shred of self-awareness

[silvanricky]

Honestly, it doesn't matter. Maybe our religion is completely baseless, but that would not stop me from continuing going to church every day and believing it.

Go live in someplace like Draper or Provo in Utah for a couple of years and you'll see why. The population is pretty close to entirely Mormon and you could hardly ask for a better community. Almost no crime, all the people are friendly, in many cases when someone has money problems, the rest of the community will completely support the person even if that's all they know about him/her.

Example: walking home in the rain, some stranger pulls over and offers you a ride, when you refuse, he hands you an umbrella and drives off without another word. (this happened twice to me while I lived there)

(Edit: I lived there for 5 years and in 6 different cities/towns)

To me, and I believe I can speak for many others of our faith, it doesn't matter if there is evidence against our religion and none for it. Either way, it's done something right.

...

And no, there is absolutely no archeological evidence of a large civilization ever existing in the parts of America that Mormons claim to have had one. (to my knowledge, at least).

But if you want some actual response that doesn't concede to that point, here it is: (but you won't like it)

If God wanted us to all live correctly, obey his commandments, have no crime, and have world peace, he could do so. Yet that would defeat the purpose of us being here. We are here so that we can, with no evidence of a God existing or of any religion to be correct, choose for ourselves which path we wish to go on. If God had left us archeological proof of the Book of Mormon to have been true, why not also have given us a video tape of himself creating the Earth? If everyone knew that God exists, living the right way and believing in him would have little meaning. The point of religion is the lack of proof.

I think this must be the first time on CC that I've read that someone actually admits their belief system is full of crap, but that they're going to continue in it anyway.

[2dimes]

Perhaps this will shed some light on your questions bk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC_3I0bwO5s

[demonfork]

Just finished reading it again. Weird shit. Any non Mormons that've read it? Any Mormons that can explain to me how a massive civilization stretching from Canada to Mexico came and went without leaving a trace of historical evidence?

Honibaz

Can you please point out to me where in the BOM where it says that this "massive civilization" stretched from Canada to Mexico....oh wait you can't because it doesn't.

Nice deflection. That was something i gathered from the entirety of the context. Let's say i'm wrong. How far did it stretch? Let's say for the sake of keeping to the main question that it only spanned the United States - where is the fooking evidence? We have artifacts from obscure Indian tribes that numbered less than a hundred people - where is one shred of evidence to indicate that there was a mighty civilization as mentioned in the Book of Mormon anywhere on this continent?

In one battle there were hundreds of thousands of casualties! These warriors wore breastplates, helmets, had swords and shields, etc. Where is the fucking evidence? Anyone ever found any of these shields, swords, breastplates or helmets? Are they stashed away in some secret Mormon museum? Were they spirited away like the magical Golden Tablets? How can you people be that fooking gullible?


Honibaz

It's not a deflection you f-ing freak, it's an example of how most of the retarded anti-mormons, like yourself, attempt distort reality to fit your agenda.

It's really quite funny from my perspective, reading the same tired routine from another retard anti-mormon that thinks that he's got the mormons all figured out.

The really funny thing is that you state that you "just finished reading the BOM" as if you read it in your leisure one sunny saturday afternoon and the best you can come up with is this?!! Pretty weak guy.

But hey you tell me...you claim that this civilization stretched from Canada to Mexico and your only evidence for this claim is because the BOM talks about a battle where 2+ million were wiped out. Pretty fucking retarded basis for an argument dude...I mean India is 1/3rd the size of the US and there are over 1 billion peeps chillen in India (that's 1,000,000,000). What's that 500x more peeps than what is mentioned in the BOM but yet somehow your pea sized brain sees a number of 2+ million and you take that to mean that they must have spanned half the globe ROFL!! I live just outside of Sacramento Ca. The city of Sacramento is 100 square miles and its not at all densely populated, there are about 1.5 million peeps living in Sacramento. The entire US is 3.8 million square miles THATS JUST THE US ALONE!!! I wont even add in Mexico and Canada. Sacramento is a tiny tiny fraction (what about .00003% the size of the US) but yet there are 1.5 million peeps living there.

Can you even begin to grasp how fucking stupid your calm is?

but like I said it's typical anti-mormon bullshit that I've seen 1,000,000,000 times.

And lets just say for arguments sake that no evidence of this civilization has been found (even though there are many that believe that there already has been)...does this mean conclusively that this civilization never existed? We have yet to find other life forms in the universe so does that also stand as conclusive evidence that therefore we must be alone in the universe?

[b.k. barunt]

I find the behavior of Mormons that i know to be exemplary. They are courteous, have solid family values and are basically good people. Unfortunately none of them seem to possess even a modicum of critical thinking but embrace the religion because that's how they were brought up. This seems to be true of all adherents to organized religion in general, but the tenets of Mormonism are a lot more whacked out than other mainstream beliefs.

don't you find it just a little strange that every religion you look at is so blatantly impossible and "whacked out" except for the one you were raised with

no need to answer of course, i already know you'll say "no" since you don't possess a shred of self-awareness

That's your problem sultan, you have too much "self awareness" - some might call it Narcissism. That's why you take things to heart and are so easily arsehurt as it were, which is why you're trolling into a thread you have no interest in just to hump my leg a bit. Lucky me.

Ok i'll do the intelligible answer to the usual stoopit question thing - my parents are stalwart members of the religious right - they think Bush is a "godly man" fergawdsakes. I'm a pot smoking reprobate who likes to f*ck and fight. I'd ask whatthefuck you're talking about but somehow i doubt it's worth hearing. Go troll somewhere else.


Honibaz

[b.k. barunt]

It's not a deflection you f-ing freak, it's an example of how most of the retarded anti-mormons, like yourself, attempt distort reality to fit your agenda.

It's really quite funny from my perspective, reading the same tired routine from another retard anti-mormon that thinks that he's got the mormons all figured out.

The really funny thing is that you state that you "just finished reading the BOM" as if you read it in your leisure one sunny saturday afternoon and the best you can come up with is this?!! Pretty weak guy.

But hey you tell me...you claim that this civilization stretched from Canada to Mexico and your only evidence for this claim is because the BOM talks about a battle where 2+ million were wiped out. Pretty fucking retarded basis for an argument dude...I mean India is 1/3rd the size of the US and there are over 1 billion peeps chillen in India (that's 1,000,000,000). What's that 500x more peeps than what is mentioned in the BOM but yet somehow your pea sized brain sees a number of 2+ million and you take that to mean that they must have spanned half the globe ROFL!! I live just outside of Sacramento Ca. The city of Sacramento is 100 square miles and its not at all densely populated, there are about 1.5 million peeps living in Sacramento. The entire US is 3.8 million square miles THATS JUST THE US ALONE!!! I wont even add in Mexico and Canada. Sacramento is a tiny tiny fraction (what about .00003% the size of the US) but yet there are 1.5 million peeps living there.

Can you even begin to grasp how fucking stupid your calm is?

but like I said it's typical anti-mormon bullshit that I've seen 1,000,000,000 times.

And lets just say for arguments sake that no evidence of this civilization has been found (even though there are many that believe that there already has been)...does this mean conclusively that this civilization never existed? We have yet to find other life forms in the universe so does that also stand as conclusive evidence that therefore we must be alone in the universe?

Damn. Somebody sounds arsehurt - did i do that?

Wouldja look at this shit - did you invent diarrhea of the mouth or are you just trying to corner the market? Still harping on the size of the Mormon's imaginary kingdom? Who gives a flying f*ck? You're still dodging the main question. Let's just take the incredible battle in Ether 15 that killed over 3 million people. Where is the fucking historical evidence? . . . love the outer space thing - that's really an apt analogy. <snigger>

Looks like your screaming hissy fit has thrown you into wild exaggerrations - or are you just bad with numbers? You've seen this arguement 1 billion times?? Wow! That's really a lot! I feel so inconsequential now. And the best part <drum roll> . . . "there are 'many' that believe that this evidence has been found" . . . WTF??! You can't possibly be that deluded. That's just one of those little brainfarts that you get when you're upset, amirite? Ok, i'll play along.

These "many that believe" historical evidence has been found . . . why do they believe this? Are there swords, breastplates, shields, etc. that someone's been hiding but that these "many" have seen?

I'm getting tired of repeating the same fooking question over and over and getting elaborate but incredibly stoopit deflections. If it's the last word you're looking for i'll give it to you. One more paean to diarrhea of the mouth post like that and i'll ignore your blubbering arse - relegate you to the status of a nerf ball. Either answer the fucking question or STFU - where's the evidence?


Patiently Waiting Honibaz

[SultanOfSurreal]

That's your problem sultan, you have too much "self awareness" - some might call it Narcissism. That's why you take things to heart and are so easily arsehurt as it were, which is why you're trolling into a thread you have no interest in just to hump my leg a bit. Lucky me.

Ok i'll do the intelligible answer to the usual stoopit question thing - my parents are stalwart members of the religious right - they think Bush is a "godly man" fergawdsakes. I'm a pot smoking reprobate who likes to f*ck and fight. I'd ask whatthefuck you're talking about but somehow i doubt it's worth hearing. Go troll somewhere else.


Honibaz

lol you think you're different from the blandly fascist, ignorant pseudo-christians that your parents are, just because you smoke pot and don't like bush

yet you have not even the barest understanding of your holy book's history or authorship. you take genesis and revelation and everything in between at face value. so therefore, your beliefs are pretty much identical to every other ignorant redneck piece of shit in this country -- regardless of your completely meaningless hatred for "organized religion"

so anyway, until you have the intellectual honesty to disavow the superstitious voodoo that you yourself believe in, you don't get to criticize other people for believing in a slightly different stripe of superstitious voodoo

hope this helps

[b.k. barunt]

I dont "get to"? Are you really that carried away with yourself? I bet you get bitch slapped a lot when you venture out of your parents' house don't you? That would account for your perpetually petulant attitude and your frenzied leg humping attacks here on the internetz. Sorry to disappoint you princess, but i'll continue to f*ck with the Mormons and search in vain for an articulate one. You can watch if you like and i'll give you a bitch slap or two so you don't feel neglected, but discuss religion or any other subject of depth with you? Surely you jest.


Honibaz

[PLAYER57832]

I have to say that while I disagree with a lot of bk's assessments, he is one of the most knowledgeable people regarding not just the Bible, but other holy books as well. Your criticism is misplaced in that regard.

[b.k. barunt]

I have to say that while I disagree with a lot of bk's assessments, he is one of the most knowledgeable people regarding not just the Bible, but other holy books as well. Your criticism is misplaced in that regard.

Thank you Player. Like i said, sultan is just humping my leg as he's wont to do from time to time. I've arsehurt him a few times and he's not the forgiving type. His petulant antics do provide a certain amount of comic relief though.


Honibaz

[DangerBoy]

If only all Sunday School classes were conducted like this when studying cults, the chairs would be filled every week.

[SultanOfSurreal]

I dont "get to"? Are you really that carried away with yourself?

yes, bk, technically you are allowed say whatever stupid shit flits through the fucked to death pile of jelly you call a brain. i can't stop you. i should have been clearer -- a more accurate way of putting it is that you don't get to say stupid shit like this, here, without getting called out for being a goddamn moron.

[pimpdave]

OH SNAP

[demonfork]

It's not a deflection you f-ing freak, it's an example of how most of the retarded anti-mormons, like yourself, attempt distort reality to fit your agenda.

It's really quite funny from my perspective, reading the same tired routine from another retard anti-mormon that thinks that he's got the mormons all figured out.

The really funny thing is that you state that you "just finished reading the BOM" as if you read it in your leisure one sunny saturday afternoon and the best you can come up with is this?!! Pretty weak guy.

But hey you tell me...you claim that this civilization stretched from Canada to Mexico and your only evidence for this claim is because the BOM talks about a battle where 2+ million were wiped out. Pretty fucking retarded basis for an argument dude...I mean India is 1/3rd the size of the US and there are over 1 billion peeps chillen in India (that's 1,000,000,000). What's that 500x more peeps than what is mentioned in the BOM but yet somehow your pea sized brain sees a number of 2+ million and you take that to mean that they must have spanned half the globe ROFL!! I live just outside of Sacramento Ca. The city of Sacramento is 100 square miles and its not at all densely populated, there are about 1.5 million peeps living in Sacramento. The entire US is 3.8 million square miles THATS JUST THE US ALONE!!! I wont even add in Mexico and Canada. Sacramento is a tiny tiny fraction (what about .00003% the size of the US) but yet there are 1.5 million peeps living there.

Can you even begin to grasp how fucking stupid your calm is?

but like I said it's typical anti-mormon bullshit that I've seen 1,000,000,000 times.

And lets just say for arguments sake that no evidence of this civilization has been found (even though there are many that believe that there already has been)...does this mean conclusively that this civilization never existed? We have yet to find other life forms in the universe so does that also stand as conclusive evidence that therefore we must be alone in the universe?

Damn. Somebody sounds arsehurt - did i do that?

Wouldja look at this shit - did you invent diarrhea of the mouth or are you just trying to corner the market? Still harping on the size of the Mormon's imaginary kingdom? Who gives a flying f*ck? You're still dodging the main question. Let's just take the incredible battle in Ether 15 that killed over 3 million people. Where is the fucking historical evidence? . . . love the outer space thing - that's really an apt analogy. <snigger>

Looks like your screaming hissy fit has thrown you into wild exaggerrations - or are you just bad with numbers? You've seen this arguement 1 billion times?? Wow! That's really a lot! I feel so inconsequential now. And the best part <drum roll> . . . "there are 'many' that believe that this evidence has been found" . . . WTF??! You can't possibly be that deluded. That's just one of those little brainfarts that you get when you're upset, amirite? Ok, i'll play along.

These "many that believe" historical evidence has been found . . . why do they believe this? Are there swords, breastplates, shields, etc. that someone's been hiding but that these "many" have seen?

I'm getting tired of repeating the same fooking question over and over and getting elaborate but incredibly stoopit deflections. If it's the last word you're looking for i'll give it to you. One more paean to diarrhea of the mouth post like that and i'll ignore your blubbering arse - relegate you to the status of a nerf ball. Either answer the fucking question or STFU - where's the evidence?


Patiently Waiting Honibaz

I think that I already answered the question but since you obviously lack the ability to read between the lines I will spell it out for you nice and simple...

The physical evidence of the battle that wiped out the Jaredites, as described in the BOM, most likely has not been found yet.

[b.k. barunt]

Thank you for that refreshing bit of honesty.

Now that we've established that on both sides i would like to point out that in spite of the fact that Mormonism is a well organized group of really swell folks, there is a problem here. Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses are some of the nicest people i've ever met, but their beliefs are obviously flawed. A large civilization like that spoken of in the BOM would have left evidence that would have been discovered long ago. Period. So yes, i think most non-Mormons would agree with me when i say their beliefs are flawed. What do we do with this conundrum?

Do we say, like neonpeon, that it doesn't matter what Mormonism is based on as long as it seems to be working so well?

I ride a bike - i don't own a car. If something goes mechanically wrong with a car it can be a pain in the arse. If something goes wrong with a bike you could die, or end up somewhat crippled as i am. With that in mind, if my mechanic tells me that something is flawed in the engine i don't say "well it's running fine so let's just leave well enough alone, mmkay?"

Get my drift?


Honibaz