Is this typical NYC?

[BigBallinStalin]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8644413.stm

New York passers-by leave good Samaritan to die


A homeless man in New York City who was stabbed after coming to a woman's aid was left to die while passers-by ignored him, CCTV footage has shown.

Police said that at least 25 people walked past Hugo Alfredo Tale-Yax as he bled to death on a pavement in Queens.

The 31-year-old from Guatemala was repeatedly stabbed by a man as he intervened during the attack last week.

The footage shows it was an hour and a half before somebody tried to rouse him and contacted the emergency services.

In the security camera video, a woman is followed by a man, who then appears to attack her.

"How can you walk past somebody when see you them lying there in need of help"

Mr Tale-Yax walks toward them. Off-camera he is stabbed several times while trying to help the woman.

The camera captures the apparent attacker running away.

Mr Tale-Yax gives chase but collapses. He is seen lying in the street fatally wounded, as several people walk past him.

Relatives of Mr Tale-Yax said he had recently lost his job and his home.

[muy_thaiguy]

Not the first time I have heard that kind of story coming from there. A saying that I have heard about NYC is, "You go to NYC to see the sights, but not the people."

[InkL0sed]

Things like this happen in any city. New York is just the biggest in the country.

I wouldn't say the people are malicious or spiteful - but New Yorkers instinctively ignore even looking at bums or generally sketchy people. I don't know whether most of the people knew whether that guy was bleeding or not; I would guess some people legitimately didn't notice, while others might not have been sure and decided it wasn't their business.

In any case, if you don't dress like a hobo or a gang member, I'd say New Yorkers are actually much nicer to you than reputed.

[BigBallinStalin]

I heard about this one case where a woman in an alley was being raped. This alley had on either side tall residential blocks, apartments, or whatever they're called. So it's loud, and people look out the window and see what's happening, but no one called the police--I think they arrived an hour after the incident, because someone eventually called.

What's this phenomena called in Psychology? Anyone here remember?

[tzor]

I don't think this is typical in NYC, but remember NYC is a pretty large place. For most non New Yorkers, NYC is Manhattan. This is Queens, an area that is still very urban but not wall to wall buildings. Homeless people are common and many do sleep on the streets during the day. My biggest question is if he had come to the aid of a woman what happened to that woman? Did anyone see the attack, besides the woman? Apart from not rousing any person who appears to be sleeping on the streets, this is where the biggest problem lies.

[muy_thaiguy]

I heard about this one case where a woman in an alley was being raped. This alley had on either side tall residential blocks, apartments, or whatever they're called. So it's loud, and people look out the window and see what's happening, but no one called the police--I think they arrived an hour after the incident, because someone eventually called.

What's this phenomena called in Psychology? Anyone here remember?

I don't remember the term myself, but I do know what you are talking about. It is where people know that there are other bystanders witnessing a crime and they all just assume that someone else will call the police, but since everyone is thinking this, no one does.

One reason why I will never live in a big city.

[saxitoxin]

I heard about this one case where a woman in an alley was being raped. This alley had on either side tall residential blocks, apartments, or whatever they're called. So it's loud, and people look out the window and see what's happening, but no one called the police--I think they arrived an hour after the incident, because someone eventually called.

What's this phenomena called in Psychology? Anyone here remember?

I don't remember the term myself, but I do know what you are talking about. It is where people know that there are other bystanders witnessing a crime and they all just assume that someone else will call the police, but since everyone is thinking this, no one does.

One reason why I will never live in a big city.

It's called, not surprisingly, the "Bystander Effect" and is extremely controversial. That is, many of the cases of so-called "Bystander Effect" in practice are the result of exaggerated or poorly sourced media reports. My inclination is that this is one of those.

What I would like to know is:

(a) Did the knifed man present any outward signs of trauma? (i.e. a disheveled looking person laying on the sidewalk unconscious and with no visible bleeding could easily have been mistaken for a sleeping homeless person)

(b) Did the knifed man at any point call out for help and was ignored or was he silent the entire time?

[Symmetry]

I heard about this one case where a woman in an alley was being raped. This alley had on either side tall residential blocks, apartments, or whatever they're called. So it's loud, and people look out the window and see what's happening, but no one called the police--I think they arrived an hour after the incident, because someone eventually called.

What's this phenomena called in Psychology? Anyone here remember?

I think the case is Kitty Genevoese (sp?), but it turned out to be a bit more complicated than some of the media spin. Basically nobody saw the whole of what was happening. A lot of people saw parts, but it was never the case that a large number of people understood the issue and decided not to get involved.

I'm going from memory here, though.

[saxitoxin]

There was a case in Germany a few years back where a 14 year-old girl was raped for 15 minutes while at least three persons passed by and 6 people were within site from balcony windows. This I could believe as Germany, generally speaking, is a decadent and disgusting place these days.

[b.k. barunt]

Fast posted by Saxi. In regards to symmetry's post:

I think you even got the name right. I remember hearing about the case way back - maybe even as far as the 60s. A woman was being attacked and there were people who just ignored it.

Saxi called it right - the "bystander effect". It's controversial because there's so many variables involved. I don't think it's ever been studied properly, i.e. with the proper methodology of a control group, etc. I've heard references to it all my live and it always comes from New York, not Chicago, LA or any other big city. It's not just a "big city phenomenon" as someone claimed - there's something about New Yorkers in that area that really sucks. Just sayin . . .


Honibaz

[Neoteny]

I haven't really looked into this too much, but I saw a picture that just showed the guy laying on the curb basically. If I saw him in that state, I probably would have walked by too. We have plenty of homeless people here in Atlanta; sometimes they lay in weird places. It's really a sad story though. Kinda makes me wish there was cosmic justice. Alas, I just have to live with you douche bags.

[b.k. barunt]

There was a case in Germany a few years back where a 14 year-old girl was raped for 15 minutes while at least three persons passed by and 6 people were within site from balcony windows. This I could believe as Germany, generally speaking, is a decadent and disgusting place these days.

Well hell they stood by and watched what happened to the Jews . . . the ones who didn't take part i mean.


Honibaz

[tzor]

Well hell they stood by and watched what happened to the Jews . . . the ones who didn't take part i mean.

No they didn't. For the most part they were rounded up by lawful authoriities and taken away. From the outward appearance there was no difference between Jewish internment in Germany and Japanese internment in the United States. (And remember by "lawful authorioties" we also have to include the French Police.) This argument is broken, however, because a lot of people did know what was really going on. Some choose not to get involved (because it would have meant going against lawful authority) and some got involved in discrete ways.

[saxitoxin]

I should also like to point out endemic cultural differences toward the concept of the individual and how violent assaults provoke different psychological motivations depending on ones nation of origin.

Americans are unlikely to get involved in a controversial matter that does not immediately concern them. Generally speaking, an assault - provided it appears to be a fair match-up - will be less likely the subject of interference. They are psychologically motivated by ethical egoism; non-interference in non-impacting affairs as the ultimate scale of morality. The innate goodness of that morality could be argued. Archetype Examples: Charles Lindbergh, Thomas Jefferson

Mexicans are likely to get involved in a controversial matter that does not immediately concern them. Generally speaking, an assault will result in a Mexican person intervening physically. They are psychologically motivated by chauvinism and a desire to demonstrate sexual virility by actualizing opportunity in a field of battle in which reciprocal altruism also factors. Archetype Examples: Benito Juarez, Santa Ana

Canadians split the difference. They are likely to get involved in a controversial matter that does not immediately concern them but only inasmuch as they can do so without risk to themselves (e.g. calling 911 but not personally intervening in an assault). They are motivated more by personal terror/fear at disruption in a social order they have been promised and less by altruism for the victim. For this reason, Canadians are - from a mental health perspective - the most psychologically fragile people among the three who inhabit North America. (This is not intended to be a slight against Canadians, simply a just medical diagnosis.) Archetype Examples: Lester Pearson, Pierre Trudeau

[b.k. barunt]

Well hell they stood by and watched what happened to the Jews . . . the ones who didn't take part i mean.

No they didn't. For the most part they were rounded up by lawful authoriities and taken away. From the outward appearance there was no difference between Jewish internment in Germany and Japanese internment in the United States. (And remember by "lawful authorioties" we also have to include the French Police.) This argument is broken, however, because a lot of people did know what was really going on. Some choose not to get involved (because it would have meant going against lawful authority) and some got involved in discrete ways.

You can't be serious. That's gotta be the most ridiculous comparison i've heard in a long time. "Rounded up by 'lawful' authorities and taken away" - they were dragged out of their homes, frequently beaten, raped, etc. and packed in railroad cars like a bunch of cattle. Many were killed before they could be "rounded up by 'lawful' authorities".

Never heard of "Glaus Nacht" (Not sure of the sp, anyhow it's German for "Glass Night")? So named because they broke every fucking window in the Jewish shops and homes. Did they do that to the Japanese?


Honibaz

[pimpdave]

Things like this happen in any city. New York is just the biggest in the country.

I wouldn't say the people are malicious or spiteful - but New Yorkers instinctively ignore even looking at bums or generally sketchy people. I don't know whether most of the people knew whether that guy was bleeding or not; I would guess some people legitimately didn't notice, while others might not have been sure and decided it wasn't their business.

In any case, if you don't dress like a hobo or a gang member, I'd say New Yorkers are actually much nicer to you than reputed.

This is actually the correct answer. Anyone see that footage from Moscow where someone gets run over on the sidewalk, and bystanders just walk right by?

[Phatscotty]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8644413.stm

New York passers-by leave good Samaritan to die


A homeless man in New York City who was stabbed after coming to a woman's aid was left to die while passers-by ignored him, CCTV footage has shown.

Police said that at least 25 people walked past Hugo Alfredo Tale-Yax as he bled to death on a pavement in Queens.

The 31-year-old from Guatemala was repeatedly stabbed by a man as he intervened during the attack last week.

The footage shows it was an hour and a half before somebody tried to rouse him and contacted the emergency services.

In the security camera video, a woman is followed by a man, who then appears to attack her.

"How can you walk past somebody when see you them lying there in need of help"

Mr Tale-Yax walks toward them. Off-camera he is stabbed several times while trying to help the woman.

The camera captures the apparent attacker running away.

Mr Tale-Yax gives chase but collapses. He is seen lying in the street fatally wounded, as several people walk past him.

Relatives of Mr Tale-Yax said he had recently lost his job and his home.

you have to be careful of aids. you have to be careful of people who might be crazy. you have to be careful since the person was stabbed it is possible they may have a weapon and be high on drugs. New Yorkers know this.

[Phatscotty]

I should also like to point out endemic cultural differences toward the concept of the individual and how violent assaults provoke different psychological motivations depending on ones nation of origin.

Americans are unlikely to get involved in a controversial matter that does not immediately concern them. Generally speaking, an assault - provided it appears to be a fair match-up - will be less likely the subject of interference. They are psychologically motivated by ethical egoism; non-interference in non-impacting affairs as the ultimate scale of morality. The innate goodness of that morality could be argued. Archetype Examples: Charles Lindbergh, Thomas Jefferson

Mexicans are likely to get involved in a controversial matter that does not immediately concern them. Generally speaking, an assault will result in a Mexican person intervening physically. They are psychologically motivated by chauvinism and a desire to demonstrate sexual virility by actualizing opportunity in a field of battle in which reciprocal altruism also factors. Archetype Examples: Benito Juarez, Santa Ana

Canadians split the difference. They are likely to get involved in a controversial matter that does not immediately concern them but only inasmuch as they can do so without risk to themselves (e.g. calling 911 but not personally intervening in an assault). They are motivated more by personal terror/fear at disruption in a social order they have been promised and less by altruism for the victim. For this reason, Canadians are - from a mental health perspective - the most psychologically fragile people among the three who inhabit North America. (This is not intended to be a slight against Canadians, simply a just medical diagnosis.) Archetype Examples: Lester Pearson, Pierre Trudeau

encore!

[Kid_A]

I am from New York, and yes that is typical of New York. In NYC we know that homeless people are worthless (especially the black ones) and are not real people so we just ignore them.

[saxitoxin]

encore!

Hmmm ... okay.

Well, generally speaking, we can cross-apply those three motivational groupings to European nationalities as well.

Americans are Most Similar to the Swiss ... on a larger than interpersonal scale this is seen reflected in the unique relationship between those nations and the neutral-nation history of the United States up until the last 90 years. Nowadays, however, the idea of comparing the U.S. and Switzerland seems odd, at best, but in interpersonal action still bears relevance. On a legislative level we even see these personal notions play out on larger scales. Both nations have roughly similar attitudes toward firearms, health care and political decentralization.

Mexicans are Most Similar to the Irish. Both nations have a history of oppression by larger European powers (Mexico by Spain and France; Ireland but the UK) that has shaped personal identity and the role of the individual. It's not surprising that ethnically Irish people play prominent role in the history of many Latin American nations (see: Bernardo O'Higgins / Chile).

Canadians are Most Similar to Britons, not surprisingly.

[Phatscotty]

TY. May I also add the reality that if the victim laying on the ground is a liberal, and you try to help him and the victim feels like you hurt them worse by trying to help them, the liberal will sue you for everything you got. And he will sit there with a straight face and say "It wasn't any of your business. You should not have tried to help me"

Once bitten, Twice shy

Babe

[b.k. barunt]

Canadians are Most Similar to Britons, not surprisingly.

Canadians = British Lite.


Honibaz

[2dimes]

My my my, phatscotty. You told me I was the only one, but look at you now you're as dark as it dawn.

[Phatscotty]

My my my, phatscotty. You told me I was the only one, but look at you now you're as dark as it dawn.

finally took me off ignore?

its all part of being a bystander. that lack of will to "get involved".

I would also add to that, since the liberals have taken over, along with the reality of how much taxes we pay, we as Americans, and ESPECIALLY heavily taxed NY'ers, the mentality has been created that.....

We pay for someone to take care of that

The government services will take care of it

The gov't has already fixed the problem of what to do when a dead body is laying on the sidewalk.

I do not have to get involved. I did my share by paying for it

[2dimes]

Me never ognore phatscotty. Phatscotty just not make enough 90s hair metal references I recognize.