Seat Belt Tickets...Specious Law Overturned!

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Has Traffic Ticketing Become Too Focused on Raising Cash?

 
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Phatscotty
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Seat Belt Tickets...Specious Law Overturned!

Post by Phatscotty »

Here in Minnesota, we are one of 30 states where the law permits people to be pulled over solely for not wearing their seat belt. The ticket is $25, with a $75 fee for the state and $8 for the libraries for a total of $108.00, 178.00 if you want a no same or similar for 1 year and it does not go on your record. the extra $70.00 is an "administrative filing fee".

There have been seat belt "stings" all over the twin cities here. I have went on to witness officers parked at the entrance of on ramps with binoculars, looking all the way down the highway in morning traffic, and pulling every single person possible to make matters worse. I have went on to hear of 3 co-workers getting seat belt tickets in the last month, along with my cousin getting one and his mother also, coming into MN from WI.

But now, I think they are going too far

http://www.twincities.com/rosario/ci_14 ... ck_check=1
excerpt
Blake Elfstrom, 22, of Maplewood, was driving his girlfriend home late Sunday morning. He was the fourth car at a stop sign before turning onto westbound Minnesota 36 from northbound McKnight Road in North St. Paul.

That was when he spotted a shabbily dressed, middle-aged man wearing glasses that seemed too big for his face. The man, who turned out to be Maplewood cop Paul Bartz, was holding up a sign — "Will work for food" — as he approached and looked inside the line of waiting vehicles.

Elfstrom was pondering whether to roll down his window when he saw the cars moving ahead of him. He entered the on-ramp, only to be waved to the side of the road moments later by one of several uniformed cops standing near a line of patrol cars.

He asked the cop why he was being pulled over. The officer told him his girlfriend was in violation of a 9-month-old law that gives Minnesota law enforcement the authority to pull over drivers and occupants for not wearing seat belts.

"How in the world did you know?" Elfstrom asked the ticketing officer.

"That homeless guy back there? He's an officer," the cop replied.

"I saw about 10 other cars pulled over as he wrote out the (summons)


If you read the story you would have gone on to read they gave out over 120 tickets in just over 3 hours, for a minimum total of around $13,000 being extracted from the community.

for the record, I wear my seat belt 99.6% of the time. I believe in seat belts, I understand how bad accidents can be and how high health care costs can run, and the last thing I want to do in life is to be giving more money to the gov't. But this is turning into a pirate operation.
Last edited by Phatscotty on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:23 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Timminz
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by Timminz »

BOOTY!!!
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by Army of GOD »

I also think that people should use seatbelts for safety, but it's not a government issue. (Well, unless other people were in direct danger of someone that didn't wear a seatbelt, which I've never heard of that being the case)
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by MeDeFe »

Phatscotty wrote:When I got my ticket, I was coming around a corner and never had a chance to see the strategically placed officer as he waved me over to join the other criminals waiting for their tickets cuz they broke the law.

Just wear your fucking seat belt! It's not a chore.


That said, using disguised officers at stop signs reeks of a scheme to pull in money.
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by sully800 »

Army of GOD wrote:I also think that people should use seatbelts for safety, but it's not a government issue. (Well, unless other people were in direct danger of someone that didn't wear a seatbelt, which I've never heard of that being the case)


In the case of an accident, a driver wearing a seatbelt is much more likely to retain control of the car which can definitely save the lives of the passengers, pedestrians and other drivers in the area.

As for passengers in a car, they are pretty much just risking their own lives. There's no reason not to wear a seat belt, but I also don't like the traps they set up for it (unless its a short time thing to try and increase seatbelt usage in the area).
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by Timminz »

sully800 wrote: There's no reason not to wear a seat belt, but I also don't like the traps they set up for it (unless its a short time thing to try and increase seatbelt usage in the area).


Combined with a public campaign, telling everyone what they're doing, so as to actually encourage people to use them, rather than just jumping out and fining them.
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by PLAYER57832 »

Army of GOD wrote:I also think that people should use seatbelts for safety, but it's not a government issue. (Well, unless other people were in direct danger of someone that didn't wear a seatbelt, which I've never heard of that being the case)


Yes, it might be my husband who has totake time out of his day (for free!), use our gas, city equipment and risk his life in traffic to get your rear out of that mess. It will be our friend who will have to drive you to the hospital. (ambulance is private, but most EMTs are not here).

If you are injured to the point of disability, highly likely, then we will be supporting you through social security, etc.

If you don't have full and complete insurance coverage .. OR lose it due to your extended hospital stay, then we, the taxpayers will pick up the tab.

So, it is a public concern. And those are not the only costs entailed by people not wearing seatbelts.

... and don't even get me started on people who think buckling their kids in is "too much hassle" (try taking a wheel chair in and out every day).
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by Phatscotty »

I forgot to add, about 2001ish, when seat belt tickets first become ticketable as a SECONDARY offense,(meaning you can't get pulled over for not wearing your seatbelt), and at the time, I rememeber them saying

We can't and won't pull you over for not wearing your seat belt


sounds great to me
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by bedub1 »

The liberals in my area decided that too many children were being hit in school zones(apparently 0 is too many) so they decided to put up traffic cameras and red light cameras around the schools to "protect the children". Then they started putting them up all over the place. But they still weren't making enough money to cover all their lavish socialist spending, so they started to reduce the yellow lights from 4 seconds to about 2 seconds. That got them lots more money. They want to put up more cameras, and probably will.

Fortunately, being liberals, they aren't very bright. They only take pictures of the car, not the driver. And since the burden of proof is on them, all you have to say to get out of the ticket is "prove I was driving the car at that time". Don't lie, just demand they prove their claim. Even though it's easy to get out of the ticket, they fill up the court system with this crap and force you to take time out of your day to come down and challenge the tickets, wasting more time and resources of a country already under strain.

At the same time, being liberals, they typically achieve the exact opposite of what they claim to want to achieve. The locations where the cameras have been installed have become extremely dangerous. People are slamming on their brakes etc to avoid the tickets. This is causing massive pileups and accidents. These locations are actually MORE dangers than they previously were.

The cure is what kills you.

They think raising taxes to support their socialist spending is what the country needs to stay alive, but will only cripple us more.
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by PLAYER57832 »

If you think the number of kids getting hit by schools is 0, then you either have not paid much attention are happen to live in a place that has been fortunate.
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by Night Strike »

PLAYER57832 wrote:If you think the number of kids getting hit by schools is 0, then you either have not paid much attention are happen to live in a place that has been fortunate.


I get hit by my school nearly every day.....homework sucks. 8-)
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by the.killing.44 »

PLAYER57832 wrote:kids getting hit by schools

I love the English language.

Just picture this phrase if you were to read it quickly.
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by PLAYER57832 »

the.killing.44 wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:kids getting hit by schools

I love the English language.

Just picture this phrase if you were to read it quickly.

lol
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by Army of GOD »

Thomas Malthus says: "F*** seatbelts!"
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Re: Seat Belt Tickets...Specious Laws and Draconian Enforcement

Post by PLAYER57832 »

Phatscotty wrote:Here in Minnesota, we are one of 30 states where the law permits people to be pulled over solely for not wearing their seat belt. The ticket is $25, with a $75 fee for the state and $8 for the libraries for a total of $108.00, 178.00 if you want a no same or similar for 1 year and it does not go on your record. the extra $70.00 is an "administrative filing fee".
.

I agree with the law, but not the $70 "filing fee" to have this off your record.
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Re: Seat Belt Tickets...Specious Laws and Draconian Enforcement

Post by Phatscotty »

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Here in Minnesota, we are one of 30 states where the law permits people to be pulled over solely for not wearing their seat belt. The ticket is $25, with a $75 fee for the state and $8 for the libraries for a total of $108.00, 178.00 if you want a no same or similar for 1 year and it does not go on your record. the extra $70.00 is an "administrative filing fee".
.

I agree with the law, but not the $70 "filing fee" to have this off your record.

In MN, here is a freebie, probably the same in many other states. Seat belt tickets are not moving violations, but they are reported to insurance, so you will be paying more there as well.

You can also get out of a ticket if you are working in a work vehicle and going under 25 mph or you have a doctors note saying seat belts cause you discomfort. I work with a fleet of trucks so I can tell you when U get out 70-120 times a day, the seatbelt is not and can not be used 100% of the time. It just is not going to happen, not to mention tearing a rotator cuff :lol: and feeling like a crackhead looking over my shoulder all day for the police. I usually see about 10-15 police per day out on the roads. I make it a habit to count them.
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Re: Seat Belt Tickets...Specious Laws and Draconian Enforcement

Post by KoolBak »

The seatbelt thing (along with the helmet thing for us motorcyclers) has been in effect here in oregon for years and they take full advantage of it. A cop pulled me over for it and it turned out to be a friend of mine but he shakes his head and goes "Sorry dude....pulled ya over, gotta give ya a ticket"....I call bullshit. We have the option for the first offense to take a class nad drop the fine from $100+ to $25......it was an r rated hideous sequence of disturbing crash scenes ....horrendous. The teacher said the ONLY reason it was passed was to decrease the medical costs that the feds have to pick up when someone is vegetized and has no / runs out of insurance.

They have the cameras everywhere as well but cannot mail you a ticket unless the drivers face is clearly visible AND a registered owner of the vehicle; you see driverless cars all the time passing these camers from people ducking. Very safe.....

Now the cell phone law has passed.....$200+ tickie for talking on a cell phone while driving. Thousands of those were handed out in the first week.

Whats next?
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AND:
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
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Re: Seat Belt Tickets...Specious Laws and Draconian Enforcement

Post by PLAYER57832 »

KoolBak wrote: The teacher said the ONLY reason it was passed was to decrease the medical costs that the feds have to pick up when someone is vegetized and has no / runs out of insurance.

EXACTLY! Why should I have to pay for your idiocy.

KoolBak wrote:
Now the cell phone law has passed.....$200+ tickie for talking on a cell phone while driving. Thousands of those were handed out in the first week.


Because talking on a cell phone causes you to drive far worse than being drunk.

KoolBak wrote:
Whats next?

You growing up, increasing your frontal lobe connections and finally realizing that you have a responsibility not to harm other people... hopefully BEFORE you kill or seriously injure anyone (including yourself).
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Re: Seat Belt Tickets...Specious Laws and Draconian Enforcement

Post by KoolBak »

WTF is your problem? You wrongly assume I do all these things religiously? I have had ONE ticket in 25 years (seatbelt on way to the fucking hospital emergency room), I have ALWAYS turned my phone off while driving and I dont need your hypocritical bullshit spewing irrationally from your piehole. Thank the gods for the foe list; and thanks for assuring me that the public forums are full of dumbasses. Bye bye playah.
"Gypsy told my fortune...she said that nothin showed...."

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AND:
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
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Re: Seat Belt Tickets...Specious Laws and Draconian Enforcement

Post by PLAYER57832 »

KoolBak wrote:WTF is your problem? You wrongly assume I do all these things religiously? I have had ONE ticket in 25 years (seatbelt on way to the fucking hospital emergency room), I have ALWAYS turned my phone off while driving and I dont need your hypocritical bullshit spewing irrationally from your piehole. Thank the gods for the foe list; and thanks for assuring me that the public forums are full of dumbasses. Bye bye playah.

My problem?

Maybe the fact that my husband was awakened at 3PM to go tend to yet another wreck might have a bit to do with it.

Then, there's your insistance that its OK to just sit by while people talk on the phone, go without seatbelt and do other things that endanger us all and cost every one of us far more money than the people doing those things want to admit. That you voice these opinions while not doing them yourself rather makes you the hypocrit.
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Re: Seat Belt Tickets...Specious Laws and Draconian Enforcement

Post by KoolBak »

This post was made by PLAYER57832 who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post. NOT.

I am sure this is another pearl of wisdom irrationally deduced and hypocritically spewed. Let me guess.....I am a repeat offender.....I beat small babies.......um......I am sure there is more.

Back to the thread ;o)
"Gypsy told my fortune...she said that nothin showed...."

Neil Young....Like An Inca

AND:
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
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Re: Seat Belt Tickets...Specious Laws and Draconian Enforcement

Post by Johnny Rockets »

Yeah it's a cash grab.
Wanna know why?

Because you humans are fucking morons, and the only way to train you into behaviour that insures the safety of yourselves and others around you is to spank your wallet until your retarded habits are curbed.

Seatbelts, anti cell phone laws, Helmet laws, red light cameras, speed traps, enforcement blitzes...
These all work.
The penalties cause you to make an effort and drive in a safer manner.
And if you can't learn, they fine you into the Stone Age and you won't be able to afford to drive, so its win win for those who respect public safety.

Johnny
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Re: Traffic Tickets and Oppression

Post by Johnny Rockets »

bedub1 wrote:The liberals in my area decided that too many children were being hit in school zones(apparently 0 is too many) so they decided to put up traffic cameras and red light cameras around the schools to "protect the children". Then they started putting them up all over the place. But they still weren't making enough money to cover all their lavish socialist spending, so they started to reduce the yellow lights from 4 seconds to about 2 seconds. That got them lots more money. They want to put up more cameras, and probably will.

Fortunately, being liberals, they aren't very bright. They only take pictures of the car, not the driver. And since the burden of proof is on them, all you have to say to get out of the ticket is "prove I was driving the car at that time". Don't lie, just demand they prove their claim. Even though it's easy to get out of the ticket, they fill up the court system with this crap and force you to take time out of your day to come down and challenge the tickets, wasting more time and resources of a country already under strain.

At the same time, being liberals, they typically achieve the exact opposite of what they claim to want to achieve. The locations where the cameras have been installed have become extremely dangerous. People are slamming on their brakes etc to avoid the tickets. This is causing massive pileups and accidents. These locations are actually MORE dangers than they previously were.

The cure is what kills you.

They think raising taxes to support their socialist spending is what the country needs to stay alive, but will only cripple us more.


I was going to break down your post and point by point show again what a 'tard you are and then thought better of it. To little return for the effort.

So instead I just hope that your hit by a car full of liberals in a school zone trying to beat a 2 second yellow light as they throw gobs of your conservative cash out the window to the liberal criminals tying up the court systems in a country already under strain.
( From neocon dip-shits fucking up the economy....)

That way I'd have somthing else to add to this topic:
Post Any Evidence For God Here
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=110240


JR
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Re: Seat Belt Tickets...Specious Laws and Draconian Enforcement

Post by sully800 »

Johnny Rockets wrote:Yeah it's a cash grab.
Wanna know why?

Because you humans are fucking morons, and the only way to train you into behaviour that insures the safety of yourselves and others around you is to spank your wallet until your retarded habits are curbed.

Seatbelts, anti cell phone laws, Helmet laws, red light cameras, speed traps, enforcement blitzes...
These all work.
The penalties cause you to make an effort and drive in a safer manner.
And if you can't learn, they fine you into the Stone Age and you won't be able to afford to drive, so its win win for those who respect public safety.

Johnny


That's the thing I've never understood about fines - if the purpose of a fine is to curb or prevent a particular behavior, then the amount of the fine should somehow be equated to the amount of money that a person has. A $200 ticket is a hell of a lot more important to someone who makes minimum wage than it is to someone who makes $200,000 a year.

At the same time I don't think its fair to say that a fine will be a certain % of your income, because then rich people (or rich looking people) would be targeted since the pay off is much more worthwhile.

In any case, I think the fact that you can pay more money to prevent something from going on your record is outrageous.
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Re: Seat Belt Tickets...Specious Laws and Draconian Enforcement

Post by Genghis Khant »

Johnny Rockets wrote:Yeah it's a cash grab.
Wanna know why?

Because you humans are fucking morons, and the only way to train you into behaviour that insures the safety of yourselves and others around you is to spank your wallet until your retarded habits are curbed.
...
And if you can't learn, they fine you into the Stone Age and you won't be able to afford to drive, so its win win for those who respect public safety.

QFT.
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