gameplay challenge

[porkenbeans]

Well I wanted to show an example of how easy it is to make changes when GP dictates. Just because you start with a texture shot, it does NOT mean that you are a "slave" to it.
I am stil not quite there yet on my animation, and I guess that I have some dithering issues or something., but, with that in mind, maybe you will see what I am trying to get at. The texture shot is basicly only a place to start, and it provides the overall look and feel to the image. But anything can be easily changed as GP requires.

[bigimg]http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/porkenbeans/ufo-giffy-1-1.gif[/bigimg]

Here is the file in png. without the gif. distortion.
[bigimg]http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/porkenbeans/jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj.png[/bigimg]

[ender516]

Very nice work, porkenbeans. You're quite right, of course the picture can be rearranged to suit gameplay. Starting from a texture simply gives you a natural looking image with the right amount of detail (thank you, fractals). If you want less land, just wipe it and flood it. This is a fine demonstration of a good technique that any reasonably skilled artist could use.

[porkenbeans]

Thanks ender.
I would also like to point out that, every single CC map, that is about a real world place, has started from a predetermined image. That is to say, the graphics are dictated by the lay of the land. graphic "style" is the only variable here. The GP is ALWAYS a thing that is worked out in order to conform to the basic image. The idea is to choose the correct style of play that best suites the map. Taking many things into account like, rivers, mountains, borders, politics, ...etc.

On the flip side, If you are making a fictitious map, like these two examples, you are afforded much more leeway, in that you can rearrange the lay of the land, to what ever you want. The GP is pretty much free to run the show. Because the graphics can be changed without the constraints that a real world place demands.

Now, different people will use different methods when they are beginning a project. If it is a fantasy map, some my start thinking about the GP and how they want a certain amount of territs, bonus areas and such. The artist however, will start thinking about the lay of the land first, and what kind of style they want to achieve. I agree 100% with qwert when he says, "(what i create),in first place go graphic stage,and then i create gameplay and improving graphic. But its totaly wrong,create gameplay,and then to create graphic,this is mine oppinion."This is exactly how I approach map making, but There are some that want to complete the GP before they start to work on the Graphics. To each his own I guess. And THAT is my main point here. There MUST be allowed to the map maker, the space to flex his or her creative muscle. If qwert, one of CC's all time best map makers has succeeded with this M.O., I think that it can be agreed that it IS a good way to go.

imho, it does not matter where, or how you start your project. So long as a map goes through the various check points, and meets all of the requirements.

So, to sum up.
There is nothing wrong, or "arse-about face way of making a map".

If you want, you can just look at it this way. Just as you would have to take the predetermined shapes and add some game play to it on a real world map, you can do the same thing here. Although with this technique of starting with a texture shot, you are free to change the shapes, add or subtract rivers or mountains, or anything that you can think of. You are totally free to build the map around any GP style that you see fit. This actually makes the GP go much more smoothly because it is NOT constrained as it is in a real world place.

[porkenbeans]

Here is another sketch for what I think would make a good "feudal" type map.
[bigimg]http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/porkenbeans/texture1copy.png[/bigimg]
Sure would like to see one of the genius GP guys, take up the challenge on this one.

[Evil DIMwit]

Well, if it'll get ya to quit yer whinin' I'll knock together a rough sketch...

[bigimg]http://dimagic.webs.com/ConquerClub/PorkGP.png[/bigimg]
That's the general idea. All the major ports start out neutral; the other territories are start positions with higher-than-normal troop values.

Happy, Sir Graphicsfirst?

[natty dread]

Aww... poor whales :/

can't we do an environmentally friendly map?

[Evil DIMwit]

Aww... poor whales :/

can't we do an environmentally friendly map?

You're lucky I didn't throw in slaves

[natty dread]

Just kidding though... a trade map would be nice. And there's already slaves in the Jamaica map, although that one has the justification of historical accuracy...

and ps. read your inbox!

[captainwalrus]

Here is another sketch for what I think would make a good "feudal" type map.
[bigimg]http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/porkenbeans/texture1copy.png[/bigimg]
Sure would like to see one of the genius GP guys, take up the challenge on this one.

This one is quite good.

[porkenbeans]

Here is another sketch for what I think would make a good "feudal" type map.
[bigimg]http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/porkenbeans/texture1copy.png[/bigimg]
Sure would like to see one of the genius GP guys, take up the challenge on this one.

This one is quite good.

Thank you, It only took an hour. here is the image that I started from.
[bigimg]http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/porkenbeans/PlasterColoured0011_L.jpg[/bigimg]

[porkenbeans]

@ evil,
very nice, Now I guess the ball is back on my side of the court. I will get to work on the icons. In the meantime, could you explain the chart in the upper right ? I am not understanding exactly how it plays. Also, can you give the cities some names ?

A back story theme, would also help me to capture the right feel. Like what, where and when does this map take place.

[Evil DIMwit]

@ evil,
very nice, Now I guess the ball is back on my side of the court. I will get to work on the icons. In the meantime, could you explain the chart in the upper right ? I am not understanding exactly how it plays.

The chart in the upper right represents the bonus given per resource if you own a city. For example, say you own the pink city, both silk sources, and a source of glass. You get 1 for each silk + 4 for the glass + 2 for a monopoly on silk = 8 (the numbers are dummy numbers, and subject to adjustment later on; to prevent bonus drop you'll probably have to own a city to trigger a monopoly bonus).

You'll notice that the bonuses are rather high for rather few territories; for that reason I think the troop counts for every aspect of the game could be scaled up by some factor.

Also, can you give the cities some names ?

A back story theme, would also help me to capture the right feel. Like what, where and when does this map take place.

[bigimg]http://dimagic.webs.com/ConquerClub/PorkGPNames.png[/bigimg]
As for where and when this map takes place... I don't think more details are really needed than "there" and "then." The resource types seem to be mostly pre-modern, and the political system is, generally, city-states. The story: Make boatloads off money trading goods around. Good enough?

[porkenbeans]

The main obstacle for me is coming up with the icons. Ones like fish, whales, furs, and wool, should be no problem, but some of the others will take some thought.

Oh I see you are the one that did the doodle map. So, you are an out of the box thinker. I like that.

[Evil DIMwit]

Oh I see you are the one that did the doodle map. So, you are an out of the box thinker. I like that.

I'm glad you're a fan.


It occurs to me that it might be necessary to relocate the territories around Frankford and Spring Garden a bit in order to make more room for the chart in the small version.

Also, if you're coming up with icons, replace 'berries' with 'dye' because that's probably easier to transport.

[porkenbeans]

I have 2 or 3 more icons to do, and will post something in a day or two.

[porkenbeans]

OK, Here we go with V2.
Some of the icons will need to be changed I'm sure, but this should get the ball rolling.
[bigimg]http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv12/porkenbeans/texture1copy-1.png[/bigimg]

[Rih0]

There's a problem, sheeps and whales are equaly named with W

[porkenbeans]

There's a problem, sheeps and whales are equaly named with W

Thanks for the catch.

[natty dread]

Just one thing: ditch that font. It's not doing the map any favours...

Other than that I like where this is going. Graphics look nice. The icons could be a bit smaller, and the colour saturation could be turned down a notch in the whole map.

Also a minor nitpick: Cr is Chrome. Copper is Cu.

[porkenbeans]

Just one thing: ditch that font. It's not doing the map any favours...

Other than that I like where this is going. Graphics look nice. The icons could be a bit smaller, and the colour saturation could be turned down a notch in the whole map.

Also a minor nitpick: Cr is Chrome. Copper is Cu.

What kind of font do you suggest ?
The icons need to be large enough to accommodate the numbers.

[natty dread]

What kind of font do you suggest ?

Well, something old-fashion could be appropriate. You're trading in copper, furs, silk, not in computers and mobile phones, which suggest an earlier time period to me... Go with a serif font for starters. I might look for some suitable fonts later...

The icons need to be large enough to accommodate the numbers.

Hmm, I'm not sure if putting the army numbers on top of the icons is a good idea. For one, the numbers will cover the icons, losing a lot of the graphics, and it might make them unclear. I'd rather see the icons next to the army circles.

Also, regarding the cities: green is not a very good colour for army circles. Red numbers will look absolutely horrible on them, and so will probably blue... In fact I don't think the fill of the army circles should have any colour, white just works best. Keep the colour on the outside...

Also I hope you consider lowering the saturation of the background. Sure it looks nice as it is now, but functionality is the key: making the saturation of the land & sea lower will make the icons & army circles and all other gameplay features stand out better. Right now everything in the map seems to be around the same saturation, which makes for a messy look - everything seems to blend together, if you know what I mean...

[porkenbeans]

Waiting on your feedback evil.

[Evil DIMwit]

Heck, I'm just here for the gameplay challenge. Get the graphics sorted out first, then we'll talk.

[porkenbeans]

Heck, I'm just here for the gameplay challenge. Get the graphics sorted out first, then we'll talk.

Well that is what I mean. How do the connections and positions look ? Is there anything that you would want changed ? Are all of the attack routes correct ? ...etc.

[captainwalrus]

Too many different things, IMO. Maybe like 5 resources and then have more things like towns or cities.