ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[Titanic]

The costs to the NHS and the country if they do nothing will be heinously large compared to the costs in changing social attitudes...

Only pointing out the lack of liberty under socialized healthcare, and your unrealized concept of it.

You know "liberty" is not the same thing as "less taxes", right?

Thank you. Also by your weird ideology anyway, taxes would be higher if the government did nothing so this enhances liberty.

[Phatscotty]

The costs to the NHS and the country if they do nothing will be heinously large compared to the costs in changing social attitudes...

Only pointing out the lack of liberty under socialized healthcare, and your unrealized concept of it.

You know "liberty" is not the same thing as "less taxes", right?

Thank you. Also by your weird ideology anyway, taxes would be higher if the government did nothing so this enhances liberty.

how high are the taxes now?

[MeDeFe]

The costs to the NHS and the country if they do nothing will be heinously large compared to the costs in changing social attitudes...

Only pointing out the lack of liberty under socialized healthcare, and your unrealized concept of it.

You know "liberty" is not the same thing as "less taxes", right?

Thank you. Also by your weird ideology anyway, taxes would be higher if the government did nothing so this enhances liberty.

how high are the taxes now?

Lower

[Titanic]

The costs to the NHS and the country if they do nothing will be heinously large compared to the costs in changing social attitudes...

Only pointing out the lack of liberty under socialized healthcare, and your unrealized concept of it.

You know "liberty" is not the same thing as "less taxes", right?

Thank you. Also by your weird ideology anyway, taxes would be higher if the government did nothing so this enhances liberty.

how high are the taxes now?

Not high enough :p

[Phatscotty]

The costs to the NHS and the country if they do nothing will be heinously large compared to the costs in changing social attitudes...

Only pointing out the lack of liberty under socialized healthcare, and your unrealized concept of it.

You know "liberty" is not the same thing as "less taxes", right?

Thank you. Also by your weird ideology anyway, taxes would be higher if the government did nothing so this enhances liberty.

how high are the taxes now?

Not high enough :p

You can start by giving away your extra spending money. Set an example.

[rockfist]

You know "liberty" is not the same thing as "less taxes", right?

Liberty does not entirely comprise the right to low taxes, but taxation and liberty are negatively correlated.

[MeDeFe]

You know "liberty" is not the same thing as "less taxes", right?

Liberty does not entirely comprise the right to low taxes, but taxation and liberty are negatively correlated.

Sweden:

The typical worker receives 40% of his income after the tax wedge. The slowly declining overall taxation, 51.1% of GDP in 2007, is still nearly double of that in the United States or Ireland.

The World Economic Forum 2009-2010 competitiveness index ranks Sweden the 4th most competitive economy in the world.

On political freedoms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index


Amazing.

[rockfist]

No organization who's co-founder was Wendel Willkie can possibly carry any weight. In fact it counts against the point. And that's not getting into the other co-founder, who's name need not be mentioned.

[Phatscotty]

You know "liberty" is not the same thing as "less taxes", right?

Liberty does not entirely comprise the right to low taxes, but taxation and liberty are negatively correlated.

Sweden:

The typical worker receives 40% of his income after the tax wedge. The slowly declining overall taxation, 51.1% of GDP in 2007, is still nearly double of that in the United States or Ireland.

The World Economic Forum 2009-2010 competitiveness index ranks Sweden the 4th most competitive economy in the world.

On political freedoms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index


Amazing.

What are you saying? Socialism is the way?

[Titanic]

You know "liberty" is not the same thing as "less taxes", right?

Liberty does not entirely comprise the right to low taxes, but taxation and liberty are negatively correlated.

How so?

No organization who's co-founder was Wendel Willkie can possibly carry any weight. In fact it counts against the point. And that's not getting into the other co-founder, who's name need not be mentioned.

Great rebuttal to empirical evidence.

[spurgistan]

No organization who's co-founder was Wendel Willkie can possibly carry any weight. In fact it counts against the point. And that's not getting into the other co-founder, who's name need not be mentioned.

Wendell Wilkie founded Sweden?

[Snorri1234]

No organization who's co-founder was Wendel Willkie can possibly carry any weight. In fact it counts against the point. And that's not getting into the other co-founder, who's name need not be mentioned.

Wendell Wilkie founded Sweden?

He's talking about Freedom House I think.


I am unsure why this matters though.

[pimpdave]

No organization who's co-founder was Wendel Willkie can possibly carry any weight. In fact it counts against the point. And that's not getting into the other co-founder, who's name need not be mentioned.

Wendell Wilkie founded Sweden?

Actually no. Sweden was founded at McGill University in 1997.

It didn't exist before then.

[multilis]

Why not strongly motivate everyone to eat well and exercise? Would do more for health for less money, you could make money taxing donuts.

Eat a traditional diet from 100+ years ago and dentists would be out of work (they have done studies, 1/20 as many cavaties), and heart disease, diabetes, etc would be *way* down. Many, many times cheaper than expensive health care and does more for life expectancy.


I personally have an electric bike with lifepo4 battery, can often replace a car even in winter in one of coldest big cities in the world (edmonton, canada). Rather than cars, if people were encouraged to have electric/peddle velomobiles/cars for shorter trips (should be 1/10 the cost of a car if mass produce) we would have more exercise and less pollution.

My dream car replacement would weight 75-150 pounds, at least roof and front windshield, seats 1 or 2 (if 2 then second guy behind) and has hitch for trailer that could seat another person or more cargo. You only need 1 horse power/750 watts, I get by using 250/500 watts with poorer aerodynamics and easy cruise at 35 km/h (20 m/h), which during heavy traffic allows me to beat cars by using bike paths. You commonly assist the motor on start up and going up hills so reasonable but not tiring.sweaty exercise.

[Frigidus]

Why not strongly motivate everyone to eat well and exercise? Would do more for health for less money, you could make money taxing donuts.

I personally have an electric bike with lifepo4 battery, can often replace a car even in winter in one of coldest big cities in the world (edmonton, canada). Rather than cars, if people were encouraged to have electric/peddle velomobiles/cars for shorter trips (should be 1/10 the cost of a car if mass produce) we would have more exercise and less polution.

Eat a traditional diet from 100+ years ago and dentists would be out of work (they have done studies, 1/20 as many cavaties), and heart disease, diabetes, etc would be *way* down. Many, many times cheaper than expensive health care and does more for life expectancy.

While this is absolutely true, you can't force people to change their eating and exercise habits. You can encourage it through targeted taxes, but that wouldn't be anywhere near enough to remove the need for health care.

[thegreekdog]

While this is absolutely true, you can't force people to change their eating and exercise habits. You can encourage it through targeted taxes, but that wouldn't be anywhere near enough to remove the need for health care.

And it wouldn't work (see, e.g. cigarette taxes). It would raise money though.

[multilis]

"You can encourage it through targeted taxes, but that wouldn't be anywhere near enough to remove the need for health care."

That imo would include adjusting priorities in food stores by clever usage of taxes, and labelling . Right now it is hard work to find healthier foods, even brown bread/flour compared to white is often out of stock or hard to find. If a store got taxed an extra 10-20% if it didn't promote and label the healthy choices first, and each unhealthy choice was taxed, diets would likely change.

[multilis]

Cigarettes are addictive... the choice between fruit juice with no added sugar and junk drink/punch/pretend juice with mostly sugar and artificial flavour seems to be marketing and lack of knowing. Make the junk punch more expensive and obvious way less healthy... (The real juice does *not* taste worse)

Most people do not know how healthy different choices are now.

[thegreekdog]

Cigarettes are addictive... the choice between fruit juice with no added sugar and junk drink/punch/pretend juice with mostly sugar seems to be marketing and lack of knowing. Make the junk punch more expensive and obvious way less healthy... (The real juice does *not* taste worse)

Most people do not know how healthy different choices are now.

Hmm... I think you might want to discuss your ideas with some people in my family. You might change your conclusions a little.

[multilis]

Cigarettes are addictive... the choice between fruit juice with no added sugar and junk drink/punch/pretend juice with mostly sugar seems to be marketing and lack of knowing. Make the junk punch more expensive and obvious way less healthy... (The real juice does *not* taste worse)

Most people do not know how healthy different choices are now.

Hmm... I think you might want to discuss your ideas with some people in my family. You might change your conclusions a little.

If they insist on ruining their health with bad food then tax it out of them (by taxing the junk food) to pay for their health care.

(In my experience flipping people to the healthier choices were as tasty to them)

[Neoteny]

Oh, come on, it's just sugar, water, and purple.

[thegreekdog]

Cigarettes are addictive... the choice between fruit juice with no added sugar and junk drink/punch/pretend juice with mostly sugar seems to be marketing and lack of knowing. Make the junk punch more expensive and obvious way less healthy... (The real juice does *not* taste worse)

Most people do not know how healthy different choices are now.

Hmm... I think you might want to discuss your ideas with some people in my family. You might change your conclusions a little.

If they insist on ruining their health with bad food then tax it out of them (by taxing the junk food) to pay for their health care.

Again, you might want to discuss your ideas with some people in my family. Most of the members of my family eat whatever the hell they want, and no one has health problems. For example, my grandfather eats whatever, whenever, wherever; he's got a large gut, and is going to celebrate his 94th birthday in a little over a week.

As a related example, my wife, 125 pounds, in shape, athlete, eats right, has very high cholestoral.

Is health related to diet? Yes. Is it fair to tax the shit out of my grandfather and not my wife? No.

[pimpdave]

Oh, come on, it's just sugar, water, and purple.

Purple is a fruit.

[multilis]

Oh, come on, it's just sugar, water, and purple.

Sugar in excess contributes to 100+ different heath problems including most of the main natural killers. (Common diet today is many times too much sugar)

"Is it fair to tax the shit out of my grandfather and not my wife? No." Is it fair to prevent drinking and driving despite some people who get drunk and manage not to kill anyone?

Diet is many times cheaper way to improve heath than "tax the shit" out of everyone to pay for universal health care. Health care currently can be 1/3 or more of entire tax bill. Overall *less* tax by motivating people to eat better.

Eg you are often helping pay 2000 dollars a day for hospital in taxes because someone else ate too much sugar and fat. Healthy diets and 90% of the heart disease may disappear.

[Frigidus]

Oh, come on, it's just sugar, water, and purple.

Sugar in excess contributes to 100+ different heath problems including most of the main natural killers. (Common diet today is many times too much sugar)

"Is it fair to tax the shit out of my grandfather and not my wife? No." Is it fair to prevent drinking and driving despite some people who get drunk and manage not to kill anyone?

Diet is many times cheaper way to improve heath than "tax the shit" out of everyone to pay for universal health care. Health care currently can be 1/3 or more of entire tax bill. Overall *less* tax by motivating people to eat better.

Eg you are often paying 2000 dollars a day for hospital because someone ate too much sugar and fat. Healthy diets and 90% of the heart disease may disappear.

Perhaps we need a Diet Purple Drink? Just water and purple?