South Africa 1885

[natty dread]

Natty - Ok, I'll take note of that. Do you think the same thing about the mountains applies to Wars of German and Italian Unification or is it just this map?

I took a peek at those map, and I'd say no. At those maps, the mountains actually work. I think it's because in those maps, the continent colours are solid, and not just outlines drawn to the borders of the areas. Here, when the colour intrudes on to the mountains, it makes them look flat and ... not mountain-like. Colouring the inside of the mountains with grey should fix this, adding more depth to the mountains = making them look like ... well, mountains

[isaiah40]

Okay, suggestion. Could you instead of having the bonus outline color run through the mountains, just make the outline stop at the mountains? The mountains are dividing some of the bonuses anyways so you could just outline the bonus up to the mountains and continue on the opposite end of the mountains. This way it would preserve the mountains as they look good for the time era. For example, West Cape, use the color along the coast then the border with East Cape but stop at the mountains. Then go over to Piquetburg and start the outline again.

Secondly, Does Frnkfort and New Castle connect? It is a little hard to tell, it looks like they don't but at first glance they look like they do. Maybe add in a couple more mountains there would be good. Also Buthabuthe and Winburg, that is an open area correct?

That's it for now, I don't see why we couldn't get the Draft Stamp out and stamp it!

[Evil DIMwit]

How about hold all ports and Pretoria + ? for the win? You hold all that in RL and you own South Africa.

Sounds like a really good idea, but not if the ports all connect to each other.

[ender516]

If the anchors still don't seem to suit the style of the map (and I think they don't quite), perhaps, to match the font, they should be given an italic-like slant and look more hand-drawn, like a notation made by the owner of the map.

[Industrial Helix]

As for the graphical suggestions... I'll keep note of them before posting the next graphics version. Thanks!

The thing I don't like about holding all ports plus Pretoria is, a) all the ports connect. b) I think it takes away from the historical situation of these warring states of South Africa. I kind of think that the map should be about conquering the states of South Africa as the various wars in the region of the period were about. I'm not 100% sold on the idea though, so there's definitely room for discussion... thoughts?

[jefjef]

Well objective maps are swell and everything but personally I like standard play maps the best. I prefer to eliminate and destroy than just capture to win.

The only real objectives you have here are the ports. Pretoria is a major region. You would need to also designate more terts if you really want an objective type map.

[Industrial Helix]

See, while I prefer standard gameplay maps I kind of think there's a bias against them in the foundry right now and long term members of the foundry are sick of seeing them. They're making the call for maps with unique gameplay and it sounds like a decent challenge and this map is relatively young still.

I think conquer any three states would be a good objective because it keeps the conquer and destroy style of a standard gameplay while offering a semi-different dynamic. Kind of like Europe 1914.

[AndyDufresne]

See, while I prefer standard gameplay maps I kind of think there's a bias against them in the foundry right now and long term members of the foundry are sick of seeing them. They're making the call for maps with unique gameplay and it sounds like a decent challenge and this map is relatively young still.

I think conquer any three states would be a good objective because it keeps the conquer and destroy style of a standard gameplay while offering a semi-different dynamic. Kind of like Europe 1914.

I think this map can easily stand without any objectives. It has a unique geographic area, in addition to a unique style of graphics.


--Andy

[jefjef]

I agree with Andy.

But If you really want an objective of holding bonus regions you would have to add connects I've suggested to Stellaland and code that single bonus region as a large Neutral.

Or I spose you could designate 3 specific regions to hold instead of 3 random ones.

[Peter the Leper]

Hi, just wrote sum, but lost it all, wasnt logged in when i submitted...

Anyway, the map looks good, with a feeling of freshness - i can even feel the breeze and smell the oceans salty spray...

Dont think Pretoria is too strong as it has seven fronts to defend...

One or two passes might be good, and realistic, but maybe subtle, barely discernible, requiring a good look 2 spot ? ...i can search for some maps showing their locations if u wish - ?

The Cape, or "Cinderella", as we have s/times called her has always played a significant role in our history - at the time of this map it was the British stronghold, much as the Transvaal was the enemy or Boer Citadel and any route north had to be either through some part of the Cape. The alternate route, though used/tried was impractical due to the arid conditions of desert and semi-desert areas. The Northern Cape is a bit of a 'Wasteland', yet fertile still. The real waste lies north of the Cape Province and west of the Transvaal and northern free state, which is the Namib and Kalahari deserts.
The Wars fought at this time were some with such tribes as the Zulu, Sotho and Xhosa, and of course the Anglo-Boer Wars and the borders reflected in the map are largley those of the two participants, the English and Boer.

These borders were the result of the trek which had begun +- 50 yrs before when the Republics shown here were still in their dreamtime, the trek could better be a seperate map, maybe similar to Route 66?

[Industrial Helix]

Thanks for the history lesson Ahuatl, it kind of sheds some light on some of the areas of the map.

To me this map serves as a precursor to the Union of South Africa and it reflects the tumultuous times before the British finally emerged as the dominant player in the region. I dunno, perhaps the standard gameplay of conquer would be adequate for this map. I think Andy makes a good point in saying its unique enough in gameplay and location.... I mean we have Egypt, Madagascar and Africa which address the continent of Africa.

[captainwalrus]

Yeah, I kindda think standard is the way to go. A map doesn't need to have fancey bells and whistles in order to be unique.

[Industrial Helix]

Ok, made a few of the graphical suggestions on the map.

I dropped the sea from the legend and I'm not sure if I like it.

I also moved the borders inside the mountains and I don't know how I feel about it... it looks good on the cape colonies but places like Basutoland just aren't all that cool. I'm going to give it some time before I decide on what to do.

[Industrial Helix]

I was wondering why nobody was commenting on this... I forgot to post the image...


[bigimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Shone/SouthAfricaLARGE-6.jpg[/bigimg]

[natty dread]

Looks good. But the anchors are still kinda out of place. Make them thicker, so it looks like they're drawn with the same pen as the other lines.

The mountains look better now, although you could smooth them a bit in some places, there's some pixelation showing.

Also there's still some colour going over the mountain in the south. Could you make it so that the colour border goes around the mountain like you've done elsewhere? I realize there's not much space there, but it's better that the colour goes over the territory names than on the mountains.

[AndyDufresne]

If you are disliking the legend---you can try to differentiate it a little more---I.E. darken/lighten the non-playable area so it doesn't just bleed outside of the box containing it into the gameboard non-playable area. You can always try to spruce up the visuals of the legend, a more decorative border (though I think the relatively simplistic style you have now is working pretty well).

The title seems out of place---probably because everything else is "drawn" while it feels like an image pasted. Why not try a line drawing of the shield and spears? Something more simplistic/minimalist might work better.


--Andy

[jefjef]

Just drop the legend box. Have it as a drawing instead of an insert.

Andy is correct for sure on the title.

Amatongaland might oughta be worth 2 considering all the port connections.

[lt_oddball]

I like the map choice.
Have to look into detail lateron.

For now I only have a problem with the thick stift colours in combination with the handwritten font.
Makes it sometimes illegible.
But I'm sure that is something for later.

Also I think some territories are a bit small..
You mentioned you find this map "too cluttered", then think about merging the smallest territories into others..
(Thaba, natal , motito are particularly tiny)

[Industrial Helix]

Thought I'd give this thread a bump.

How does everyone feel about cutting some territories and making this a smaller map?

I'm think removing 1-2 territories from Natal and The Orange Free State and pulling Malmesbury from West Cape.

Either way, I don't think this map can past the Melting Pot until 13 Colonies is quenched... but it would be nice to get it in shape while we're waiting.

[natty dread]

Nooo, there are plenty of small maps already...

Although it might work as well. But if you need to cut back territories I'd rather suggest merging Stellaland.

[MrBenn]

If you're going to drop any territories, you should only drop 1, to keep 44 (which is an optimal number). Either that, or I'd suggest adding a couple to see if you can get up to 52/53 terrs...

[Industrial Helix]

I need a little help...

Does anyone know what warriors or soldiers were called in Lesotho (Basutoland), Amatonga or Swaziland? Or even what the word for soldier or warrior or army is. It's a stretch but figuring there's a few people on these forums from those parts there's a chance. I guess I'll continue to research on my own until i find something.

[Industrial Helix]

Nevermind, I found the answers I was looking for But it wasn't easy.

So, I ditched the minimap... seemed like too much to me. And with this new key, you can get an idea of the different peoples and cultures in South Africa.

I also added a border to liven things up.

I lost the texture on the land, which really clears things up in my opinion and I went with ship wheels instead of anchors.

I also moved zululand's borders a little north to connect it to Swaziland and seal off Amatongaland, which, as it turns out, were all zulu peoples though not of the same political union. Zululand frequently raided these areas, so it seemed logical that they connect to me.

One graphics question I have is whether or not the country indicator color should go under the terr. names or not. With Zululand this is difficult because the dark green makes it hard to read, so I cut it. Maybe a glow around the letters?

[bigimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/Shone/SouthAfricaLARGE-7.jpg[/bigimg]

[natty dread]

Wow, that looks amazing! Really a big improvement.

The mountains fit the map well now. Although you could also try them with just a bit lighter shade, just to see how it looks?

[ender516]

Yes, this is impressive. With regard to colour behind the text, I think a white glow around the black text might give the contrast you need to put it on any background colour.