The Third Crusade [Quenched] Revamping

[Raskholnikov]

Yes, I noticed that. Plus Bessarabia is totally wrong. That area is Wallachia (Bessarabia did not exist at the time and when eventually it would, it would be situated to the north east of Wallachia.

[Commander9]

So far looks like an amazing map. I'm planning to play it soon and leave some feedback.

[AndrewB]

As per naming of the continents, it is consistent with the map, which was used as a basis:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/europe_mediterranean_1190.jpg

[Shrinky]

error spotted.

for county of tripoli bonus, we have Torlosa listed in map but when we attack it, the attack(dunno about fort) option comes up as Torsola

[Order of Chaos]

Love this map! Just noticed what appear to be two bug (my apologies if duplicate -- lots of pages in this thread)!.

Map info states that Castile can one-way attack Krak des Chevaliers, which would usually make K.D. Chevaliers visible from Castile in a fog game. I'm occupying Castile and still see Krak des Chevaliers as '??'.

Also I believe 'County of Tripoli' is shown as 'County of Tripole' in the log when you get the bonus message for it.

[luxCRUSADER]

Love this map! Just noticed what appear to be two bug (my apologies if duplicate -- lots of pages in this thread)!.

Map info states that Castile can one-way attack Krak des Chevaliers, which would usually make K.D. Chevaliers visible from Castile in a fog game. I'm occupying Castile and still see Krak des Chevaliers as '??'...... it.

The TEMPLAR one way bonus starts from Castile then goes to Malta then (and only then) goes to Krak...so the reason your not seeing Krak is cuz you need to have the view from Malta Hope this helps m8

[luxCRUSADER]

I love and appreciate the careful and magnificent attention to detail you made by way of implementing the 6 Muslim Strongholds as well as incorporating the supplemental bonus of Damascus to reflect how shite and sunni collaboration contributed to the demise of the Crusaders ! Great Imagination

Might you consider giving a careful review of whether an equally conjoined bonus structure of the Crusader strongholds in the Holy Land could have similar bonuses as that of the Muslims strongholds. And if you did, the following centers could be implemented: Crac des Chevaliers, Castel Blanc, Arsuf, Margat, Atlit, Montfort and Acre. A possible pre- condition would be to have any of the Christian Starting locations ????

Just curious ?

thx for your time

luxCRUSADER

[AndrewB]

Following typos are noted and will be fixed:

Balkan is spelled Balcan

County of Tripoli is typoed as "County of Tripole".

Torlosa is spelled Torsola

Also Castille does not attack Krak des Chevaliers directly, but through the Malta.

[AndrewB]

I love and appreciate the careful and magnificent attention to detail you made by way of implementing the 6 Muslim Strongholds as well as incorporating the supplemental bonus of Damascus to reflect how shite and sunni collaboration contributed to the demise of the Crusaders ! Great Imagination

Might you consider giving a careful review of whether an equally conjoined bonus structure of the Crusader strongholds in the Holy Land could have similar bonuses as that of the Muslims strongholds. And if you did, the following centers could be implemented: Crac des Chevaliers, Castel Blanc, Arsuf, Margat, Atlit, Montfort and Acre. A possible pre- condition would be to have any of the Christian Starting locations ????

Just curious ?

thx for your time

luxCRUSADER

Thx Lux for your comment. We have decided to start with 8 starting position, as we have max 8 players in a game.

Going for more starting position is really out of the scope of the map and might over-complicate the map, which is already complex enough by all accounts...

[luxCRUSADER]

I love and appreciate the careful and magnificent attention to detail you made by way of implementing the 6 Muslim Strongholds as well as incorporating the supplemental bonus of Damascus to reflect how shite and sunni collaboration contributed to the demise of the Crusaders ! Great Imagination

Might you consider giving a careful review of whether an equally conjoined bonus structure of the Crusader strongholds in the Holy Land could have similar bonuses as that of the Muslims strongholds. And if you did, the following centers could be implemented: Crac des Chevaliers, Castel Blanc, Arsuf, Margat, Atlit, Montfort and Acre. A possible pre- condition would be to have any of the Christian Starting locations ????

Just curious ?

thx for your time

luxCRUSADER

Thx Lux for your comment. We have decided to start with 8 starting position, as we have max 8 players in a game.

Going for more starting position is really out of the scope of the map and might over-complicate the map, which is already complex enough by all accounts...

Hello Andrew ....

thx for getting back to my comment, which appears is my fault for creating confusion, as it is not 'additional starting locations that I was making reference to, but rather adding 'STRONGHOLDS' just as you have MUSLIM strongholds in the game at Granada, Algeris, Alexandria, Damascus, Rakka and Melitene; and having such possible Christian Strongholds in the same 'culmative bonus' structure as you have the Muslim bonuses ie hold 2 Christian Strongholds=1; hold 2=3; hold 3=3 etc. Not sure if I have made myself clearer here.

Possibly adding these strongholds would give the starting Christian locations additional hope and reason to fight in the Holy Land ... I'm just being inquisitive here and would like to get a sense of what your team would say to this suggestion ... please let me know if I have failed to make my point clear enough.

Thanks in advance for your time

[AndrewB]

Hi luxCRUSADER,

I see what you mean now. You propose to have the equivalent of Muslim bonuses.

But we already have them: Knights Templar Bonuses (Grenada, Malta, Krak). Am I missing something here? If you are seeking for exact replication of the Muslim bonuses (by total number of them) it was deliberately done this way to have the fewer Knights Templar Bonuses. It makes game play more interesting (from my point of view).

[Commander9]

So far I've played this map just a few turns, but I really love how in depth it is. I've really love all those possibilities and connections and I'm sure that this isn't made too difficult. As long as you pay attention to the symbols and to what you are doing, you should do just fine. I'm falling in love with it already and I really appreciate you making this map.

I will also try to contribute, although I'm not sure that will actually be beneficial. Since theme is Crusades, we all know who were they influenced by - the Church. So I think (just my opinion) that shouldn't Vatican state have just a slightly bigger bonus +2 as to show their influence. Furthermore, a lot of rulers in Europe tried to influence/be in good terms with the Papal States, so I think it would make Vatican one of the main targets in the game while not disrupting the gameplay/balance. Also, maybe Holy Roman Empire and Papal States should be connected somehow (either another bonus or possibility to attack each other or w/e)?

[jarrett155]

why do some starting points start with 6 and some with 3?

[thenobodies80]

Poll Result

===============================================

Victory objectives:


-Make mandatory to hold both Granada and The Vatican to achieve victory......14......48%

-Leave it as it is. The player can choose between The Vatican or Granada......15.......52%

===============================================

Total votes : 29

[AndrewB]

So far I've played this map just a few turns, but I really love how in depth it is. I've really love all those possibilities and connections and I'm sure that this isn't made too difficult. As long as you pay attention to the symbols and to what you are doing, you should do just fine. I'm falling in love with it already and I really appreciate you making this map.

I will also try to contribute, although I'm not sure that will actually be beneficial. Since theme is Crusades, we all know who were they influenced by - the Church. So I think (just my opinion) that shouldn't Vatican state have just a slightly bigger bonus +2 as to show their influence. Furthermore, a lot of rulers in Europe tried to influence/be in good terms with the Papal States, so I think it would make Vatican one of the main targets in the game while not disrupting the gameplay/balance. Also, maybe Holy Roman Empire and Papal States should be connected somehow (either another bonus or possibility to attack each other or w/e)?

Hi Commander9, thx for your comment.

As I understand the main theme of this map is FAILED Crusade, and it was failed because of the strong Muslim support. So, we cannot just accent the Vatican more then Muslim regions. And I believe there is a good balance between Muslim and Christian bonuses.

And HRE is already connected to both Vatican and to the Norman Kingdom of two Sicilies by Lombardy, Corsica and Sardinia, Venice.

[AndrewB]

why do some starting points start with 6 and some with 3?

London will be raised to starting 6 in the next version.

[jarrett155]

why do some starting points start with 6 and some with 3?

London will be raised to starting 6 in the next version.

is london the only one that starts with 3?

[Commander9]

So far I've played this map just a few turns, but I really love how in depth it is. I've really love all those possibilities and connections and I'm sure that this isn't made too difficult. As long as you pay attention to the symbols and to what you are doing, you should do just fine. I'm falling in love with it already and I really appreciate you making this map.

I will also try to contribute, although I'm not sure that will actually be beneficial. Since theme is Crusades, we all know who were they influenced by - the Church. So I think (just my opinion) that shouldn't Vatican state have just a slightly bigger bonus +2 as to show their influence. Furthermore, a lot of rulers in Europe tried to influence/be in good terms with the Papal States, so I think it would make Vatican one of the main targets in the game while not disrupting the gameplay/balance. Also, maybe Holy Roman Empire and Papal States should be connected somehow (either another bonus or possibility to attack each other or w/e)?

Hi Commander9, thx for your comment.

As I understand the main theme of this map is FAILED Crusade, and it was failed because of the strong Muslim support. So, we cannot just accent the Vatican more then Muslim regions. And I believe there is a good balance between Muslim and Christian bonuses.

And HRE is already connected to both Vatican and to the Norman Kingdom of two Sicilies by Lombardy, Corsica and Sardinia, Venice.

Thanks for your response. The thing that I've meant was the constant conflicts between the Pope and the Emperor (and before the 3rd crusade Barbarossa was involved with some stuff going on in Italy and with Pope). That's what I've meant, when I said it should be connected somehow. Maybe it actually wasn't such a good idea (when I think more about it).

I know that the Crusade was a failed one, I've just tried to underline how much power over all christian kingdoms Vatican actually held. Then again, it's your map and I was just trying to be beneficial.

Bottom line - thank you for work and this wonderful map and I know that however you will decide to finish, it will be a great one

[Shrinky]

Poll Result

===============================================

Victory objectives:


-Make mandatory to hold both Granada and The Vatican to achieve victory......14......48%

-Leave it as it is. The player can choose between The Vatican or Granada......15.......52%

===============================================

Total votes : 29

no clear majority, just 1 vote difference. maybe we should let the poll run for some more time?

[ender516]

Poll Result

===============================================

Victory objectives:


-Make mandatory to hold both Granada and The Vatican to achieve victory......14......48%

-Leave it as it is. The player can choose between The Vatican or Granada......15.......52%

===============================================

Total votes : 29

no clear majority, just 1 vote difference. maybe we should let the poll run for some more time?

It might be worth waiting for some more beta games to finish, so more informed answers could appear. (I only just started a game a short while ago, so I didn't vote this time. Planning for an objective win is foremost in my thoughts in that game.)

[Kabanellas]

Ok, poll results…

I know that option B wasn’t elected by an undeniable margin. But I think that we should stick to it. It really makes this map more political, as it should, especially in multiplayer standard games.

[luxCRUSADER]

Ok, poll results…

I know that option B wasn’t elected by an undeniable margin. But I think that we should stick to it. It really makes this map more political, as it should, especially in multiplayer standard games.

I think so too ...

Just my thoughts ...

Welcome back m8

[Commander9]

Well, I've found a bug. During my game I've attacked English Channel and only managed to revert it to 3. However, next turn it didn't revert to 4 and I've still had to take only 3. That's pretty much it.

[the.killing.44]

Well, I've found a bug. During my game I've attacked English Channel and only managed to revert it to 3. However, next turn it didn't revert to 4 and I've still had to take only 3. That's pretty much it.

Killer neutral territories revert to x neutral armies only if captured by a player.

[ender516]

Well, I've found a bug. During my game I've attacked English Channel and only managed to revert it to 3. However, next turn it didn't revert to 4 and I've still had to take only 3. That's pretty much it.

I don't think I would call it a bug in the map, because I am pretty sure it is not something that the XML could change. Killer neutrals only revert to a fixed number of neutrals when held by a player. If you only kill some of the troops, then the territory is not reverted to its initial troop count at the next turn, and anybody has a shot at finishing the job.