The CUBE

[natty dread]

make each layer in depth a different color

I'd say this would be a great idea. Why didn't I think of that.

[paulk]

Are you talking about something similar to Version 15?
[bigimg]http://123fresno.com/hypercube/hypercubeDevelopment15.jpg[/bigimg]

[natty dread]

Yes, that would be it.

[paulk]

Well then, please go back and read the discussion that lead to the change in coloring system. (You can find the page numbers in the first post.)

I changed the colors since it was a request from the graphics stamps mod [player]gimil[/player], and "everybody" then thought it was an improvement.

I can't go around in circles. There can only be one map version in the end.

[natty dread]

OK then... your choice ultimately.

And I'm sorry, I probably wasn't around the at the time of that discussion.

[a.sub]

oh well im sorry to, i wasnt around either, i personally think the version you showed would be better if you used more vibrant colors, but like natty said, its your choice because youre right, you shouldnt be going in circles.

EDIT: and i think it also needs the simpler "mostly black" background

[iancanton]

one of the HUGE advantages with the new system is that it makes discussing gameplay much more linear.

i'll use the new system for the time being and we'll see if anyone can follow what's happening.

Unfortunately it is not currently possible to determine who gets what start positions. It is random.

it is random in that u can't force y1-y3-y5-y7 to be red rather than green or vice versa. however, u can specify that one position is y1-y3-y5-y7 and that the other is y2-y4-y6-y8, with the game engine determining which is red and which is green.

Ok, in that case, what happens in 3-8 player games?

in games with 3 or more players, the 2 start positions are ignored and all balls are allocated randomly. to avoid yellow balls from being distributed unevenly, it's possible to specify that each yellow ball will start with 1 or 2 underlying neutrals (they're called underlying neutrals because they take effect only when the start positions have been ignored) - this is essential if the coloured minisquare bonuses apply.

Is it also possible to specify that in 4 player games the players get the balls on the opposite side of the yellow mini cube?

no, if we have 4 such start positions (y1 with y6, y2 with y5, y3 with y8 and y4 with y7), then each player in a 2-player game will always have 2 pairs of connected yellows, which is what the y1-y3-y5-y7 and y2-y4-y6-y8 positions above try to avoid.

ian.

[paulk]

Thank you very much for explaining that in detail. Now it is more clear what possibilities the map has.
I trust my XML expert [player]Tieryn[/player] will take care of making it happen.

[iancanton]

first, u'll have to decide whether the underlying neutrals are 1 for each yellow ball, 2 for each yellow ball or 1 for some and 2 for others. they will take effect only when the number of players (3 or more) exceeds the number of start positions (2).

ian.

[paulk]

I guess 3 underlying neutrals, just as everywhere else.

[yeti_c]

This sounds like a good plan to avoid the yellows - I would go with a minimum of 3 for the yellows... as they're the most powerful on the pitch - but of course the most vunerable.

C.

[iancanton]

I am still waiting for some mathematics expert to calculate the chances of starting with an initial bonus of +1,+2 or more. But I think the risk of unfair start position is fairly reasonable.

in 1v1, according to [player]mrbenn[/player]'s bonus probability calculator, there is a 0.83% chance of player 1 receiving 4 specified balls from 56 for a +1 bonus. there are 14 separate minisquares on the surface of our cube, so the chance of player 1 receiving one or more of these bonuses is 1-0.9916^14 = 11.05%.

11.05% is above our 10% guideline for +1 bonus drops. however, the 14 bonuses above, though not sharing any balls, are not strictly independent and i suspect that this is a slight overestimate because the finite number of balls tends to curb the most extreme variations from the mean (unless my logic is flawed).

i'm therefore happy to approve a version of the map that rewards only minicubes and minisquares that contain at least 1 yellow ball (in other words, without additional coloured minisquare bonuses) and has start positions that stop someone from starting with connected yellows.

ian.

[paulk]

i'm therefore happy to approve a version of the map that rewards only minicubes and minisquares that contain at least 1 yellow ball (in other words, without additional coloured minisquare bonuses) and has start positions that stop someone from starting with connected yellows.

But you ALSO approve of mini squares that NOT contain a yellow ball, right?

[iancanton]

yes, as long as they're +1 and not +2.

ian.

[paulk]

were they ever +2? I know I still halfheartedly cling to the same color mini square additional bonus of +2 (producing a total of +3) but I don't remember any +2 regular mini square bonus. I know I might have considered it though...

[iancanton]

i was referring to exactly the bonus that u mentioned. it would have made more sense if i had said as long as they're +1 and not +3, though the same principle applies.

ian.

[skeletonboy]

Completely random comment, but there's an astronaught by g3 that's looking out of place

[paulk]

Completely random comment, but there's an astronaught by g3 that's looking out of place

He is just taking a little leasure flight by himself. Permanent vaccation.

[skeletonboy]

This has gameplay passed, so why is it still in the gameplay workshop?

[paulk]

Latest Version 34 (Big): (p.25)
Took away the additional +2 mini square color bonus
Added legend about names system
Made the legend text smaller
Made corner numbers 1-8 visually bigger

Latest Version 34 (Small):

[sinctheassasin]

hmmm... this is a map i definatly cant wait to play...

but a few graphic issues (since i believe, this is what we are working on now? )

yeah, first off. the cube itself looks very... boggling for some reason. the colors arent really doing it... are you signifying the cubelets, the squares maybe? Because all I see is really a jumbled mess of colored lines, no matter how you say you group them together

second... just a little nit pick here, the text at the bottom right, is very annoying to read. white on blue and white is not a good color choice... It's a lot of instructions, and a striking color would not fit onto the backdrop of earth and the stars... maybe you could stamp/paint out earth?

not sure if you have decided on any of these things yet... I cannot wait to see the next update!

[the1brother]

This is looking good! I can't wait to play it.

[paulk]

hmmm... this is a map i definatly cant wait to play...

but a few graphic issues (since i believe, this is what we are working on now? )

yeah, first off. the cube itself looks very... boggling for some reason. the colors arent really doing it... are you signifying the cubelets, the squares maybe? Because all I see is really a jumbled mess of colored lines, no matter how you say you group them together

second... just a little nit pick here, the text at the bottom right, is very annoying to read. white on blue and white is not a good color choice... It's a lot of instructions, and a striking color would not fit onto the backdrop of earth and the stars... maybe you could stamp/paint out earth?

not sure if you have decided on any of these things yet... I cannot wait to see the next update!

This map is not for the weak. It is a challenge to see beyond the surface and truly take in the 3D structure.
I have tried many different versions of the design, and this version with the sides in different colors seem to be the one that most people can understand.

I am sorry to hear that you find it to be a jumbled mess. But please, give me a suggestion on what might be a better solution! We have 4 layers of balls. To me the current solution is the easiest to navigate in.

About the text. Yes, it is small. Yes, it is white with black border on white and blue over the earth.
But honestly, there is no satisfying alternative. And besides, the text is very much readable, and after you have read it once or twice, you should be able to know it by heart without reading it again. Then it actually is a good thing that it harmonizes with the background.

I hope you will like the end result, that I hope is near. Happy New Year.

[sinctheassasin]

hmmm... this is a map i definatly cant wait to play...

but a few graphic issues (since i believe, this is what we are working on now? )

yeah, first off. the cube itself looks very... boggling for some reason. the colors arent really doing it... are you signifying the cubelets, the squares maybe? Because all I see is really a jumbled mess of colored lines, no matter how you say you group them together

second... just a little nit pick here, the text at the bottom right, is very annoying to read. white on blue and white is not a good color choice... It's a lot of instructions, and a striking color would not fit onto the backdrop of earth and the stars... maybe you could stamp/paint out earth?

not sure if you have decided on any of these things yet... I cannot wait to see the next update!

This map is not for the weak. It is a challenge to see beyond the surface and truly take in the 3D structure.
I have tried many different versions of the design, and this version with the sides in different colors seem to be the one that most people can understand.

I am sorry to hear that you find it to be a jumbled mess. But please, give me a suggestion on what might be a better solution! We have 4 layers of balls. To me the current solution is the easiest to navigate in.

About the text. Yes, it is small. Yes, it is white with black border on white and blue over the earth.
But honestly, there is no satisfying alternative. And besides, the text is very much readable, and after you have read it once or twice, you should be able to know it by heart without reading it again. Then it actually is a good thing that it harmonizes with the background.

I hope you will like the end result, that I hope is near. Happy New Year.

very well, fair enough... but please, remember my suggestions, im pretty sure that now ur in the graphics phase, ur gonna get a lot of crap about that... try playing with the grid thickness, see if making in thinner or fatter would maybe help us visualize the cube better... (or maybe, color is the problem? I dont see any problem with replacing the color with a nice white.. might be easier to tell apart, and it goes well with the spacy backdrop)

something like this, IMO is much easier to visualize as a cube, since color tends to signify some sort of separation or difference.
[bigimg]http://123fresno.com/conq/cuboid.jpg[/bigimg]

[paulk]

LOL, you really make me smile.
As you might know, since you have found an old map version, this map has been around for over 2 years and this is the fourth thread (since the others took different directions).

The graphics are already hammered out. The current color system, the background, the size of the rods etc are all discussed and altered several times. If you look at this threads initial post you can find several maps with only white rods, and I had to change those just because people were complaining that it was too hard to navigate in such a structure.

The map you provided is also in only 3 layers, not 4, and there is a significant visual difference.