We need a proper map popularity thread

[pmchugh]

I have often thought that the start a game, or game finder page, should have the monthly top 20 most popular games listed. This list would take only 1 thing into account, and that is ,(simply), # of new games started each month. NOT games in progress.
All of this talk about formulas, and how to somehow even out the disparagy, that may or my not exist, between small and large maps, is nonsensical. If Doodle, or some other map is more popular because of it's size, ...so be it. Why a map is more popular, can be debated till the cows come home. But no amount of debate can change the facts of which maps ARE the most popular.

if only it were that easy. what about players who start 250 games of 1v1 CC mogul to far on over the course of a month? Or you have one player who only plays Crossword, but does it 100 times a month, counteracting 100 separate players who each play Midgard. Does that seem fair.

YES it does. Besides, it is NOT a question of "fair". It is only a question of fact. I think that you and others, are confusing the "most popular" with the "best" map. There are thousands of people that play here. Any single player, is NOT going to corrupt the numbers.
If you want a list of the "best" maps, then I suggest that you use a poll , where each player is only allowed to cast a single vote. Then I believe that you will get the list that you are looking for.

I will take a guess right now as to what is the top map in popularity. I see an awful lot of Feudal's started. That and Age of Realms.

Your not understanding.

Say it take twice as long to finish a game on Map A than it does on map B. Presuming they are equal in popularity, then Map B will still have more games played on it as the people that like it will finish games twice as quick so they can start new ones a lot quicker.

[porkenbeans]

I have often thought that the start a game, or game finder page, should have the monthly top 20 most popular games listed. This list would take only 1 thing into account, and that is ,(simply), # of new games started each month. NOT games in progress.
All of this talk about formulas, and how to somehow even out the disparagy, that may or my not exist, between small and large maps, is nonsensical. If Doodle, or some other map is more popular because of it's size, ...so be it. Why a map is more popular, can be debated till the cows come home. But no amount of debate can change the facts of which maps ARE the most popular.

if only it were that easy. what about players who start 250 games of 1v1 CC mogul to far on over the course of a month? Or you have one player who only plays Crossword, but does it 100 times a month, counteracting 100 separate players who each play Midgard. Does that seem fair.

YES it does. Besides, it is NOT a question of "fair". It is only a question of fact. I think that you and others, are confusing the "most popular" with the "best" map. There are thousands of people that play here. Any single player, is NOT going to corrupt the numbers.
If you want a list of the "best" maps, then I suggest that you use a poll , where each player is only allowed to cast a single vote. Then I believe that you will get the list that you are looking for.

I will take a guess right now as to what is the top map in popularity. I see an awful lot of Feudal's started. That and Age of Realms.

Your not understanding.

Say it take twice as long to finish a game on Map A than it does on map B. Presuming they are equal in popularity, then Map B will still have more games played on it as the people that like it will finish games twice as quick so they can start new ones a lot quicker.

No YOU are not understanding. Your logic is flawed. There is a difference in the most played and the most favorite. The most played is what I am considering the most popular. The favorite game, is the game that is at the top of the polls, if they were to take one. Both of these lists are a "popularity" measure. One requires a poll, the other does not. If you were to compare these two lists with one another, I believe that you would see pretty much the same maps on the top 20. Although the order may be different.
So, the question is, do you propose that a poll be taken each month, or does a most started games list sound a lot easier ?

[Esn]

I have often thought that the start a game, or game finder page, should have the monthly top 20 most popular games listed. This list would take only 1 thing into account, and that is ,(simply), # of new games started each month. NOT games in progress.
All of this talk about formulas, and how to somehow even out the disparagy, that may or my not exist, between small and large maps, is nonsensical. If Doodle, or some other map is more popular because of it's size, ...so be it. Why a map is more popular, can be debated till the cows come home. But no amount of debate can change the facts of which maps ARE the most popular.

if only it were that easy. what about players who start 250 games of 1v1 CC mogul to far on over the course of a month? Or you have one player who only plays Crossword, but does it 100 times a month, counteracting 100 separate players who each play Midgard. Does that seem fair.

YES it does. Besides, it is NOT a question of "fair". It is only a question of fact. I think that you and others, are confusing the "most popular" with the "best" map. There are thousands of people that play here. Any single player, is NOT going to corrupt the numbers.
If you want a list of the "best" maps, then I suggest that you use a poll , where each player is only allowed to cast a single vote. Then I believe that you will get the list that you are looking for.

I will take a guess right now as to what is the top map in popularity. I see an awful lot of Feudal's started. That and Age of Realms.

Your not understanding.

Say it take twice as long to finish a game on Map A than it does on map B. Presuming they are equal in popularity, then Map B will still have more games played on it as the people that like it will finish games twice as quick so they can start new ones a lot quicker.

So what? I agree with porkenbeans. Just a simple statistic would be enough.

Life's not fair, as they say; deal with it. Besides, once you start making these adjustments to compensate for one thing or another, you end up with nobody being able to understand what the ranking actually means.

[mibi]

I have often thought that the start a game, or game finder page, should have the monthly top 20 most popular games listed. This list would take only 1 thing into account, and that is ,(simply), # of new games started each month. NOT games in progress.
All of this talk about formulas, and how to somehow even out the disparagy, that may or my not exist, between small and large maps, is nonsensical. If Doodle, or some other map is more popular because of it's size, ...so be it. Why a map is more popular, can be debated till the cows come home. But no amount of debate can change the facts of which maps ARE the most popular.

if only it were that easy. what about players who start 250 games of 1v1 CC mogul to far on over the course of a month? Or you have one player who only plays Crossword, but does it 100 times a month, counteracting 100 separate players who each play Midgard. Does that seem fair.

YES it does. Besides, it is NOT a question of "fair". It is only a question of fact. I think that you and others, are confusing the "most popular" with the "best" map. There are thousands of people that play here. Any single player, is NOT going to corrupt the numbers.
If you want a list of the "best" maps, then I suggest that you use a poll , where each player is only allowed to cast a single vote. Then I believe that you will get the list that you are looking for.

I will take a guess right now as to what is the top map in popularity. I see an awful lot of Feudal's started. That and Age of Realms.

Your not understanding.

Say it take twice as long to finish a game on Map A than it does on map B. Presuming they are equal in popularity, then Map B will still have more games played on it as the people that like it will finish games twice as quick so they can start new ones a lot quicker.

So what? I agree with porkenbeans. Just a simple statistic would be enough.

Life's not fair, as they say; deal with it. Besides, once you start making these adjustments to compensate for one thing or another, you end up with nobody being able to understand what the ranking actually means.

You an porkenbeans are entirely missing the point.

Unless you legitimately have something against weighted statistics, which are used in everything.

[porkenbeans]

@ mibi,
I don't think that I am missing anything. I tried to explain myself as clear as I could. Maybe you could not understand my point. I will try again in a different way to help you understand my view on this.
It is my desire to see a list of the most popular maps each month. I am talking about units sold, and out the door.
You on the other hand, are looking to see which map, is the overall favorite, of all players. Like I stated before, this would require a poll each month. That is NOT very realistic.
So, why not just have a simple list, that tallies the maps in order of most units sold. I find it very odd that this should upset you so. And, you try to figure out some ingenious formula that will produce the most popular map.
I say that it is simply units sold. you say, er... I don't know exactly what you are trying to say.
Maybe instead of telling me that I do not understand, you will see fit to expound on an explanation.

[chipv]

Looks like the problem may be with the word "popularity" for which you will never get a satisfactory consensus.

I am in agreement with porkenbeans in that we have a simple statistic that tells us how often a map is played.
This is easy to obtain, easy to understand, and makes it easy to compare maps.
Then make sure that it is given a meaningful name that does not spark off this kind of dispute -
Game Frequency, or Map Usage, or something that doesn't give rise to semantic dispute.

It's also impossible to argue with this stat. Whether you want other stats with additional weighting is another matter.

For a popularity contest, you might as well have a regular poll.

[laughingcavalier]

I am in agreement with porkenbeans in that we have a simple statistic that tells us how often a map is played.
This is easy to obtain, easy to understand, and makes it easy to compare maps.
Then make sure that it is given a meaningful name that does not spark off this kind of dispute -
Game Frequency, or Map Usage, or something that doesn't give rise to semantic dispute.

Huzzah! So are you volunteering to make one of your delightful scripts????

[porkenbeans]

Looks like the problem may be with the word "popularity" for which you will never get a satisfactory consensus.

I am in agreement with porkenbeans in that we have a simple statistic that tells us how often a map is played.
This is easy to obtain, easy to understand, and makes it easy to compare maps.
Then make sure that it is given a meaningful name that does not spark off this kind of dispute -
Game Frequency, or Map Usage, or something that doesn't give rise to semantic dispute.

It's also impossible to argue with this stat. Whether you want other stats with additional weighting is another matter.

For a popularity contest, you might as well have a regular poll.

How about simply,
MOST GAMES PLAYED.? Updated monthly.

It does not matter how long the games are or even when they finish. Just the start of all new games.

[mibi]

@ mibi,
I don't think that I am missing anything. I tried to explain myself as clear as I could. Maybe you could not understand my point. I will try again in a different way to help you understand my view on this.
It is my desire to see a list of the most popular maps each month. I am talking about units sold, and out the door.
You on the other hand, are looking to see which map, is the overall favorite, of all players. Like I stated before, this would require a poll each month. That is NOT very realistic.
So, why not just have a simple list, that tallies the maps in order of most units sold. I find it very odd that this should upset you so. And, you try to figure out some ingenious formula that will produce the most popular map.
I say that it is simply units sold. you say, er... I don't know exactly what you are trying to say.
Maybe instead of telling me that I do not understand, you will see fit to expound on an explanation.

Your're logic is so flawed. Units sold does not equal popularity. Let's say I sell a 1 hundred candy bars for $100. And you sell 500 jelly beans for $5. Are jelly beans more popular?

The bottom line is this, there are more factors involved in a how many times a map is played than "popularity" alone.

Your method will only tell me which maps have been played the most. To me, that is rather worthless information because there are quite a few variables involved that determine a maps play frequency. Frequency != popularity. What I think is the meat of 'popularity' is if there was a formula to eliminate as best as possible all the other variables to you can get at something that is a better measure of popularity.

[porkenbeans]

@ mibi,
I don't think that I am missing anything. I tried to explain myself as clear as I could. Maybe you could not understand my point. I will try again in a different way to help you understand my view on this.
It is my desire to see a list of the most popular maps each month. I am talking about units sold, and out the door.
You on the other hand, are looking to see which map, is the overall favorite, of all players. Like I stated before, this would require a poll each month. That is NOT very realistic.
So, why not just have a simple list, that tallies the maps in order of most units sold. I find it very odd that this should upset you so. And, you try to figure out some ingenious formula that will produce the most popular map.
I say that it is simply units sold. you say, er... I don't know exactly what you are trying to say.
Maybe instead of telling me that I do not understand, you will see fit to expound on an explanation.

Your're logic is so flawed. Units sold does not equal popularity. Let's say I sell a 1 hundred candy bars for $100. And you sell 500 jelly beans for $5. Are jelly beans more popular?

The bottom line is this, there are more factors involved in a how many times a map is played than "popularity" alone.

Your method will only tell me which maps have been played the most. To me, that is rather worthless information because there are quite a few variables involved that determine a maps play frequency. Frequency != popularity. What I think is the meat of 'popularity' is if there was a formula to eliminate as best as possible all the other variables to you can get at something that is a better measure of popularity.

WTF ?
Candy bars and jelly beans ? apples and oranges my friend. Are you serious ?

Units sold brother. The most games played is the list that I am interested to see. I will bet you that a small map like doodle is not #1. Feudal is my guess. But it can only be determined if there is a calculation done. And even if doodle does top the list. I would just have to say that maybe small maps just might be more popular than large ones.

[the.killing.44]

*whooooooosh*

[mibi]

I give up. What the hell do I know about statistics and representations of data anyways.

[porkenbeans]

I give up. What the hell do I know about statistics and representations of data anyways.

Well mibi,
Sometimes you just need to keep it simple. You do not need to over complicate things all the time. It all comes down to this, there are many different reasons why people like a map. From graphics, to size, to complexity, And many more reasons. In my opinion it is simply the maps with the more traffic, (for what ever reason), ARE the most popular. period. Like it or not, facts are facts. You can glean from them what you will.

A better analogy than your candy bars and jelly beans is, Go to a bar and ask everyone what there favorite drink is. They will answer with a myriad of concoctions, from white Russians to Kamikazes. But at the end of the evening, when you look at the receipts, you will find a whole different story. Bud light will have had the most sales.
So, would you conclude that Bud light, or one of the other drinks that people stated was there favorite, ...is actually the most popular ?

[john9blue]

Popularity = (average players per game) * (average rounds per game) / (length of time since quenching).

Basically the rate at which people are taking turns on that map.

Simple enough...

[porkenbeans]

Popularity = (average players per game) * (average rounds per game) / (length of time since quenching).

Basically the rate at which people are taking turns on that map.

Simple enough...

Hey john,
The length of time sense quenching is going to be irrelevant in a list that is to be updated on a monthly basis. So, each month, all maps start from new, and are only scored for the amount of new games started for that month. Which also means that it does not matter how long the games are. However, the number of players do matter. So, this should be taken into account when scoring the # of games.

[john9blue]

Hey john,
The length of time sense quenching is going to be irrelevant in a list that is to be updated on a monthly basis. So, each month, all maps start from new, and are only scored for the amount of new games started for that month. Which also means that it does not matter how long the games are. However, the number of players do matter. So, this should be taken into account when scoring the # of games.

Hi.

The problem with this method is that certain maps may be in vogue a certain month (e.g. a tournament based around that map) and it wouldn't give a true picture of the overall popularity of that map. It can be updated on a monthly basis, but the amount of time since quenching would have to be increased as such. You could also do "in the past 6 months" or "in the past year" to decrease the influence of these variance factors.

What would help is to define "popularity". I see it as the rate turns are being taken on a map, but to another person it could mean the number of games played on the map, regardless of turns. If the latter, then the (average rounds per game) would be taken out of the equation, simplifying things.

[porkenbeans]

Hey john,
The length of time sense quenching is going to be irrelevant in a list that is to be updated on a monthly basis. So, each month, all maps start from new, and are only scored for the amount of new games started for that month. Which also means that it does not matter how long the games are. However, the number of players do matter. So, this should be taken into account when scoring the # of games.

Hi.

The problem with this method is that certain maps may be in vogue a certain month (e.g. a tournament based around that map) and it wouldn't give a true picture of the overall popularity of that map. It can be updated on a monthly basis, but the amount of time since quenching would have to be increased as such. You could also do "in the past 6 months" or "in the past year" to decrease the influence of these variance factors.

What would help is to define "popularity". I see it as the rate turns are being taken on a map, but to another person it could mean the number of games played on the map, regardless of turns. If the latter, then the (average rounds per game) would be taken out of the equation, simplifying things.

I do not see the problem. If there happens to be turny or something, so what. It only means that the map, is more popular that month. A yearly stat would be nice also, as an addition to, but not in place of the monthly list.

[AndyDufresne]

Your method will only tell me which maps have been played the most. To me, that is rather worthless information because there are quite a few variables involved that determine a maps play frequency. Frequency != popularity. What I think is the meat of 'popularity' is if there was a formula to eliminate as best as possible all the other variables to you can get at something that is a better measure of popularity.

Right, I think I understand mibi's concern here. If we wanted to find this out, the Game Finder actually can do it pretty easily.

But still the problem for what any formula would be---while attempting to keep it relatively simplistic/streamlined.


--Andy

[porkenbeans]

Your method will only tell me which maps have been played the most. To me, that is rather worthless information because there are quite a few variables involved that determine a maps play frequency. Frequency != popularity. What I think is the meat of 'popularity' is if there was a formula to eliminate as best as possible all the other variables to you can get at something that is a better measure of popularity.

Right, I think I understand mibi's concern here. If we wanted to find this out, the Game Finder actually can do it pretty easily.

But still the problem for what any formula would be---while attempting to keep it relatively simplistic/streamlined.


--Andy

With respect, I want to just see a list of the maps with the most started games each month. If someone else also wants to run it through their own formula, to figure out, what in their mind, are the most popular maps, that is up to them. I just want the raw data, and I will glean from that what I may. This is a site that is all about strategizing So, I will come up with my own formula to that end. So, JUST THE FACTS PLEASE.

If you want to take into account the number of players in each game, and coralate that in , it is fine with me, but anything more than that, will just be corrupting the list as far as I am concerned.

[AndyDufresne]

I'm not suggesting there be only one idea---multiple ideas incorporating various aspects is fine.


--Andy

[Esn]

Your method will only tell me which maps have been played the most. To me, that is rather worthless information because there are quite a few variables involved that determine a maps play frequency. Frequency != popularity. What I think is the meat of 'popularity' is if there was a formula to eliminate as best as possible all the other variables to you can get at something that is a better measure of popularity.

Right, I think I understand mibi's concern here. If we wanted to find this out, the Game Finder actually can do it pretty easily.

Yes, exactly. But there are many dozens of different maps, and it is inconvenient to search for each of them in the Game Finder in turn to find out the overall ranking.

All I'm asking for is a simple list, on a single page, that combines all of the "# of games played" that are so easy to find on the Game Finder.

I'm asking for this because I figure that something this simple should be the least amount of work, so is probably the most likely to get done out of all the suggestions.

[porkenbeans]

Your method will only tell me which maps have been played the most. To me, that is rather worthless information because there are quite a few variables involved that determine a maps play frequency. Frequency != popularity. What I think is the meat of 'popularity' is if there was a formula to eliminate as best as possible all the other variables to you can get at something that is a better measure of popularity.

Right, I think I understand mibi's concern here. If we wanted to find this out, the Game Finder actually can do it pretty easily.

Yes, exactly. But there are many dozens of different maps, and it is inconvenient to search for each of them in the Game Finder in turn to find out the overall ranking.

All I'm asking for is a simple list, on a single page, that combines all of the "# of games played" that are so easy to find on the Game Finder.

I'm asking for this because I figure that something this simple should be the least amount of work, so is probably the most likely to get done out of all the suggestions.

YES, simple and quick. If people should want, they could use this list to figure out a myriad of things, such as the most popular in their eyes. People can work out for themselves using whatever formula they wish, to achieve their goals in this respect. This simple, and uncorrupted list can be their starting point.
I am at the moment, having a kick-ass time in the Foundry, learning how to make maps. I could really use this info. to help gauge which maps see the most playing time. I do not care so much for knowing what maps are the most "popular" in any other respect than that.
# of games started, ...period.

PS. to mibi, I understand, and appreciate your view on this. Maybe you could reciprocate, and try to understand me, and others as well.

PSS. SIMPLE, QUICK, SIMPLE, QUICK, SIMPLE, QUICK, ...AND MAYBE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE IMPLEMENTED THIS YEAR.

[JoshyBoy]

I'd be extremely interested to see the results and stats