WWII-Stalingrad [QUENCHED]

[cairnswk]

Next version i will try to sort out shadows, although i am thinking that trees need to disappear. Perhaps i should replace them with barbed wire!

Good idea. What little I know of WWII in the USSR tells me those trees would all have been cut for lumber or fuel. If barbed wire does not work, consider barricades or piles of rubble, although I am not sure I can picture those being easier to depict that the wire.

PIles of rubble would be appropriate and easy to depict, for me easier than barbed wired.

[lt_oddball]

Aren't you there yet ?


Anyway, small note: SVV plane in the legend being attacked by the soviet HQ should be white.

And still 8 luftwaffe airplane slots in stead of 4 ?

[cairnswk]

Aren't you there yet ?

Luv your humour No Sorry, not there yet.
you know how these things take time....for everyone to sort out bits and pieces and review.

Anyway, small note: SVV plane in the legend being attacked by the soviet HQ should be white.

And still 8 luftwaffe airplane slots in stead of 4 ?

Did we decide on 4. i thought that was still up for grabs. Perhaps another poll after this one is finished.

Actually, i was thinking about reviewing the Luftwaffe completely.
I've come across research that indicates that the main airfield for Luftwaffe was at Potimnik, which is south west of Stalingrad.
Alshtough there was a small airfield at Goemark (Gumark) it wasn't the main Luftwaffe airbase.
So towards this, would it be appropriate to rename the Luftwaffe to Potimnik Luftwaffe to get history correct.
And further to this, should the plane numbers still be dropped to 4 or 6?

[pamoa]

I love the dark version you made here but...
sorry to say it but regions are now almost impossible to distinguish
specially the city where sniper colour codes are now very prominent
and I don't see any solution but making some of them a bit more clear
you also must make a test with blue armies on such a dark bg

about artillery
maybe saying they can bombard only the other side of the river but not the city
and graphically you still have strange symbols on Russian side and in the legend

what I mean is
1
please make a test with blue army numbers
because they are sometimes very difficult to read
it is a CC default
2
now you have territories that are all dark brown
combined with a bonus legend done as list without geographical order
you ended with a map were it is impossible to figure out which territories are part of which zone
and what is the bonus for each of them
you have to
2.1
reorder your list in a geographical order
up-down left-right or left-right up-down
2.2
make some territories clearer
by example I can't tell if R.13th Guard Rifle Div A is part of the City or Gömark
same in Dzerzhinsky N.
3
a new artillery rule
any artillery can bombard all units on the other side of river
except in the City
4
you have two kind of artillery symbols
I prefer the one on the north shore

[ender516]

Next version i will try to sort out shadows, although i am thinking that trees need to disappear. Perhaps i should replace them with barbed wire!

Good idea. What little I know of WWII in the USSR tells me those trees would all have been cut for lumber or fuel. If barbed wire does not work, consider barricades or piles of rubble, although I am not sure I can picture those being easier to depict that the wire.

PIles of rubble would be appropriate and easy to depict, for me easier than barbed wired.

I was just imagining that someone might complain that your rubble looks like mountains, but if you leave off the snowcaps, this seems less likely. However, one must never underestimate the ability of foundry folk to whine about nothing.

[ender516]

2.1
reorder your list in a geographical order
up-down left-right or left-right up-down

Presuming that you stick with the oblique text (a fairly safe bet, given the lead in the polls), when I look at the map, I tend to tilt my head slightly to the left, which leads me to read the map in this order, which I would like to suggest for the bonus legend:

Goemark
Hospital
Panzer Divs
Gorodische
Orlovka
Kuporosnoya
All City
Mameyev Hill
Rynok
Russian 64th
Russian 62nd
Chulkov

[pamoa]

ender516 your proposition is perfect

[cairnswk]

....
what I mean is
1
please make a test with blue army numbers
because they are sometimes very difficult to read
it is a CC default
2
now you have territories that are all dark brown
combined with a bonus legend done as list without geographical order
you ended with a map were it is impossible to figure out which territories are part of which zone
and what is the bonus for each of them
you have to
2.1
reorder your list in a geographical order
up-down left-right or left-right up-down
2.2
make some territories clearer
by example I can't tell if R.13th Guard Rifle Div A is part of the City or Gömark
same in Dzerzhinsky N.

Done.

3
a new artillery rule
any artillery can bombard all units on the other side of river
except in the City

Why would you want this. Artillery from city east can bombard city if it is held by your enemy

4
you have two kind of artillery symbols
I prefer the one on the north shore

Fixed.

[cairnswk]

2.1
reorder your list in a geographical order
up-down left-right or left-right up-down

Presuming that you stick with the oblique text (a fairly safe bet, given the lead in the polls), when I look at the map, I tend to tilt my head slightly to the left, which leads me to read the map in this order, which I would like to suggest for the bonus legend:

Goemark
Hospital
Panzer Divs
Gorodische
Orlovka
Kuporosnoya
All City
Mameyev Hill
Rynok
Russian 64th
Russian 62nd
Chulkov

Done, next version, almost the same.

[cairnswk]

Version 22

Still to do: the shadows and trees.

changed:
1. suggestions by pamoa & enders5165 to re-order the legend
2. Luftwaffe reduced to 6 planes. i think this is quite enough, still leaving air superiority at 2:1



[bigimg]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/stalingrad/stalingrad_V22L.jpg[/bigimg]

[The Neon Peon]

MUCH better legend, very nice improvement to clarity.

[Teflon Kris]

Nice one carins - that clears it up Although, the doods and tanks assaulting next-door is what players would expect anyway - if you need space you might wish to take that bit out? Unless, these are the only assaults possible (e.g. tanks cant assault next-door artillery)? But then again, if that was the case then the doods wouldn't be able to assault the river. Hmmm. Help!

I wasn't totally sure about the city bonus as it said 'all'.

Thanks for clearing things up big style - now to get my thinking cap on.

Where is it?

Anyone seen it?

My ex-girlfriend's thinking cap is lying around in the corner there - I really don't want to try it though!

(Your trees and shadows are top class btw)

[The Neon Peon]

Cairns, have you tried adding a small bit of texture to the land?

Just a thought. The map looks great as is, but its a simple thing to try and might be a large improvement.

[jefjef]

Cairns, have you tried adding a small bit of texture to the land?

Just a thought. The map looks great as is, but its a simple thing to try and might be a large improvement.

Actually rubble as obstacles would be good. Stalingrad was full of rubble and not easy to traverse.

A few more obstacles would be good on this map IMO.

[cairnswk]

MUCH better legend, very nice improvement to clarity.

Excellent! Pleased you like

Nice one carins - that clears it up Although, the doods and tanks assaulting next-door is what players would expect anyway - if you need space you might wish to take that bit out? Unless, these are the only assaults possible (e.g. tanks cant assault next-door artillery)? But then again, if that was the case then the doods wouldn't be able to assault the river. Hmmm. Help!

I wasn't totally sure about the city bonus as it said 'all'.

Mmmmm. I need help, don't know about you.

Thanks for clearing things up big style - now to get my thinking cap on.
Where is it?
Anyone seen it?
My ex-girlfriend's thinking cap is lying around in the corner there - I really don't want to try it though!
(Your trees and shadows are top class btw)

Wasn't her new bf wearing it?

Cairns, have you tried adding a small bit of texture to the land?

Just a thought. The map looks great as is, but its a simple thing to try and might be a large improvement.

Yes there is actually a very slight texture sitting over the top of those terts, but i don't want to make it clearer just yet until the colours/design all come together.

...
Actually rubble as obstacles would be good. Stalingrad was full of rubble and not easy to traverse.
A few more obstacles would be good on this map IMO.

Yes still to do that yet....soon.

For now, Version 23.
Changes are mainly concerning the airfields being placed into isometric angle with the rest of the map, and the cursosry airfields of course.
Now i also designed SUs and JUs for the respective airforce, and i think i still need to work on colour differentation on those a bit more.
Also added the number to test for spacing on the new airfields.



[bigimg]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/stalingrad/stalingrad_V23L.jpg[/bigimg]

[pamoa]

well you are doing great
1
about city bg colour
with army numbers it is very difficult to distinguish its limits
maybe you should try with a very light almost white bg
2
airfields
2.1
isometric view is great
2.2
Russian airfield can be acceded trough 62nd Yeremenko and 62nd 4th Div
they are only separated by 1 territory and Yeremenko is in a kind of a dead end
this makes the access to the airfield too easy to control
maybe you can switch Yeremenko with 6th Div and enter airfield directly from 3rd Div
3
planes
I love the realistic option
but you have to make a more simple icon
now it only looks like ... noise

[lt_oddball]

planes
I love the realistic option
but you have to make a more simple icon
now it only looks like ... noise

agree; maybe a simple black/white (pen) profile icon.
Somewhere inside this forum you may find Stuka and Iljusin2 planes
http://www.aereimilitari.org/forum/inde ... 0634&st=15

otherwise a great forum to find break out pictures.

[thenobodies80]

Poll Result


Horizontal Text or Oblique Text?

Horizontal.....12.....39%

Oblique.....19.....61%

Total votes : 31

[cairnswk]

planes
I love the realistic option
but you have to make a more simple icon
now it only looks like ... noise

agree; maybe a simple black/white (pen) profile icon.
Somewhere inside this forum you may find Stuka and Iljusin2 planes
http://www.aereimilitari.org/forum/inde ... 0634&st=15

otherwise a great forum to find break out pictures.

Guys, please f5, i've:
1. changed the plane icons
2. added some rubble but i think to delete the trees altogether takes away the "woods" aspect around those terts that have it.
3. re-worked all the icon bg shadows so they're not so apparent
4. fixed the colours oin the silos

Haven't worked on the city bg nor the alternative access to the VSS airfield



[bigimg]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/stalingrad/stalingrad_V23L.jpg[/bigimg]

Poll Result

Horizontal Text or Oblique Text?
Horizontal.....12.....39%
Oblique.....19.....61%
Total votes : 31

Thanks the nobodies80

[cairnswk]

well you are doing great
1
about city bg colour
with army numbers it is very difficult to distinguish its limits
maybe you should try with a very light almost white bg

Oh no not white. That'd take away the dark forbodding appeal
But i will tinker with that bg color to see what i can do for you.

2.2
Russian airfield can be acceded trough 62nd Yeremenko and 62nd 4th Div
they are only separated by 1 territory and Yeremenko is in a kind of a dead end
this makes the access to the airfield too easy to control
maybe you can switch Yeremenko with 6th Div and enter airfield directly from 3rd Div

mmmm.
what i'd prefer to do is swap 62nd Yeremenko with 62nd 1st division,
and give the access to 62nd Chulkov.
That way you'd need to part of each continent to control the airfield access.

[jefjef]

Looks like a challenging map. Nice work!

Doesn't look like German HQ can be bombarded. Can it?

A little more rubble impassables would be good. Don't want it too open IMO. (A couple more choke points would be good)

[cairnswk]

Looks like a challenging map. Nice work!

Doesn't look like German HQ can be bombarded. Can it?

A little more rubble impassables would be good. Don't want it too open IMO. (A couple more choke points would be good)

suggestions?

[whitestazn88]

hey, haven't looked at this map or the foundry for a while, but it looks really good, although i find the legend in the small version to be a bit blurry. then again, it may be the fact that i'm tired...

[pamoa]

But i will tinker with that bg color to see what i can do for you

what i'd prefer to do is swap 62nd Yeremenko with 62nd 1st division,
and give the access to 62nd Chulkov.
That way you'd need to part of each continent to control the airfield access.

1
city bg colour
all your attention for me is too much
but thanks for considering my remarks
2
Russian airfield
in fact your proposition is better
3
plane icon
maybe it would look better with the wheel under it
3.1
in the first line of the bombardments legend
maybe put only one plane left
but with both colour half/half

and again congratulations for the work

[lt_oddball]

indeed more rubble blockades.
( i have no thought about where exactly).
The rubble in the Gor. Fields better be turned in impassable woods again (obviously).

The rubble icon can easily be made brighter..It helps to quicker understand the map in an overview and concrete/cement IS light grey (like your gate poles around the hospital).



"Pavlov's House " is too large and thus too far away from the actual zone.
Just make it "pavlov" and get it closer to its zone and further away from the Volga Island (Which you can downsize to "Volga Isle" ).