The HIVE [Quenched]

[pamoa]

love the massive hex map theme combined with the hive idea
impassable borders are hard to catch with so many infos
specially when I imagine it with armies
it should be either bolder or better a double line

[Kaplowitz]

Reminds me way too much of KLOBBER's map :\

[thorz hammer]

Looks cool , what i would say is make the borders more pronounced, i dont mean make them darker but actually blockier, there would be no harm in putting little walls in or something like that, simply making them darker would not do the right job, the fact that the map is so large makes it a little overwhelming to the eyes and a little hard to process. Also making the territory colours more pronounced would be better, just to give it more perspective. Hope this is constructive

[thorz hammer]

Haha sorry thats basically what pamoa just said.

[instigator]

I vote yes for the map. Don't really care about themes, I just want more larger maps.

All of the borders need to be more visible, passable and impassable. Maybe make the map image larger, screens are big these days.

[RjBeals]

Looks good WM.

Maybe create some beehives to make the nodes into? Instead of just white.
And what about dressing up the title header area - I know there's barely any room, but the graphics you created for the title to Draknor were amazing. I think if you wanted, you could really create something awesome here as well.

But the bee theme fits nicely - I guess it sort of looks like the Honycomb map by Klobber, but much bigger and better.

[WidowMakers]

Looks good WM.

Maybe create some beehives to make the nodes into? Instead of just white.
And what about dressing up the title header area - I know there's barely any room, but the graphics you created for the title to Draknor were amazing. I think if you wanted, you could really create something awesome here as well.

But the bee theme fits nicely - I guess it sort of looks like the Honycomb map by Klobber, but much bigger and better.

Thanks Rj. I am working on a slightly new look adn trying to find more room in the header as well.

WM

P.S. I will also try to get a "In memory of Klobber" or "Based on the true story of Klobber: Honeycombs, the idea that wasn't"

[WidowMakers]

OK,

So I can get a better idea of the space I have to work with in the legend, I need to make sure the legend text is good for everyone and contains all the information we need.

Here is what I need discussed:

1) Bonus group VALUE Wording (Hex group Values / Honeycomb Group Values / etc)
2) Bonus group Values (3 group =X? 6 group = Y? etc)
3) Bonus Group NAMING Wording (How the groups are named) currently it is the number of hexes plus alpha numeric of lowest hex

For example top left corner A1/A2/B1

a) Group 3 A1
b) Hex Group 3 A1
c) 3 Hex Group A1
d) Cluster A1 (3)
e) ????
4)Dark Lines are impassible text (might already be OK)
5) Territory Bonus Capped at X Words? (How to best explain this in words
6) Territory Bonus Capped at X? Value (What should it be?)

Please no more graphics talks yet. Those can get worked out after I know what i need to fit everywhere.

Several posters have brought up border layout as well and I have gotten several PM's regarding that too.

Are there any more suggestions about the locations of impassable borders (where to replace, move or remove) to alter gameplay for the better?

---------------------
For ease of discussion here is the nomenclature we will use during the talks.

If two hexes border use this: K1=K2
If two hexes do NOT border, use this: K2<>L2

That way we have a quick and easy way to talk gameplay without having to write TONS of words describing our ideas.
---------------------

Also, I tried to make each bonus group have the same number of border terts based on the number of hexes in the group but I am sure I missed some and maybe some need to be tweaked.

Once the GFX and legend get worked out the map will still need a good look over the GP, which I think will be the toughest part. Making sure that the map is balanced will take a bit of work with this many places to move.

Thanks

[Evil DIMwit]

3) Bonus Group NAMING Wording (How the groups are named) currently it is the number of hexes plus alpha numeric of lowest hex

Since each bonus group is essentially identical, do you really need to provide more information than "Player A received 3 troops for holding a 6-hex group", "Player so-and-so received 10 troops for holding a 15-hex group"?

Also, I tried to make each bonus group have the same number of border terts based on the number of hexes in the group but I am sure I missed some and maybe some need to be tweaked.

Yeah, good job on that. You were only off by one for 8 of the bonus groups and even if you left those as they are I don't think that would be a disaster for gameplay.

[WidowMakers]

3) Bonus Group NAMING Wording (How the groups are named) currently it is the number of hexes plus alpha numeric of lowest hex

Since each bonus group is essentially identical, do you really need to provide more information than "Player A received 3 troops for holding a 6-hex group", "Player so-and-so received 10 troops for holding a 15-hex group"?

It is important for several reasons:

1) XML requires it
2) It is easier to refer to a group by name in the chat.

[WidowMakers]

VERSION 4


Changes:

1) tweaked GFX
2) Changed Nodes to Clusters
3) Added some legend text

To-Do:

1) Finalize Legend Text
2) Finalize Bonuses
3) Finalize border placement
4) Rework final legend look and feel

WM

[Evil DIMwit]

Oooh, comby.

D'you think it won't look too weird to have the honeycomb cluster numbers so far off-center in clusters 2 and 4?

[impact12]

I like the concept! Looks like it will be an interesting map to play!

[john9blue]

You're missing the "x" in hexes in the legend. A stylish legend would be... legendary... if you could pull it off.

[Rocstar6969]

all nodes start neutral with high numbers, own all nodes to win. map looks good otherwise.

[pamoa]

1) Bonus group VALUE Wording (Hex group Values / Honeycomb Group Values / etc)
2) Bonus group Values (3 group =X? 6 group = Y? etc)
3) Bonus Group NAMING Wording (How the groups are named) currently it is the number of hexes plus alpha numeric of lowest hex

For example top left corner A1/A2/B1
a) Group 3 A1
b) Hex Group 3 A1
c) 3 Hex Group A1
d) Cluster A1 (3)

4)Dark Lines are impassible text (might already be OK)
5) Territory Bonus Capped at X Words? (How to best explain this in words
6) Territory Bonus Capped at X? Value (What should it be?)

1 change "honeycomb cluster" to "queen" and name "honeycomb group" as "cluster"
2 each cluster bonus depends on its size
3 cluster naming: each cluster is named after its lowest alphanumeric hex

so you will have a string like this in the log
... received 1 troop for holding A1

5 maximum territory bonus X

[WidowMakers]

all nodes start neutral with high numbers, own all nodes to win. map looks good otherwise.

They will start neutral but there is not special win condition

[Izelway]

The map itself looks awesome (V3), and I am impressed with the graphiss layout.

My only concern would be the territory cap of 10. I understand that the cap will make for much longer game play, which is awesome and prevents steam rolling of people once you own a good sized portion of the map. I'm not sure if this would work, but perhaps you could have the cap apply only to the person with the most territories? I'm not sure how the logistics of that would play out in terms of coding though.

Its just a thought though. Otherwise, I am eagerly awaiting a play test of this map. Thank you for the offer to vote, I wish I had been around. Good luck and much support to the endeavor.

[WidowMakers]

VERSION 5

[WidowMakers]

My only concern would be the territory cap of 10. I understand that the cap will make for much longer game play, which is awesome and prevents steam rolling of people once you own a good sized portion of the map. I'm not sure if this would work, but perhaps you could have the cap apply only to the person with the most territories? I'm not sure how the logistics of that would play out in terms of coding though.

The cap only applies to the number of individual territories a player holds not to total bonuses for holding groups.

A player holds 30 territories and 1- 6 hex group bonus
held Terts (30/3) = 10 + 3 = 13 TOTAL


A player holds 100 territories and 5- 6 hex group bonus
held Terts (100/3) = 10 + 15 = 25 TOTAL

It is mainly here to keep the initial player from getting 33 armies in a 1v1 game.

[Evil DIMwit]

3) Bonus Group NAMING Wording (How the groups are named) currently it is the number of hexes plus alpha numeric of lowest hex

Since each bonus group is essentially identical, do you really need to provide more information than "Player A received 3 troops for holding a 6-hex group", "Player so-and-so received 10 troops for holding a 15-hex group"?

It is important for several reasons:

1) XML requires it
2) It is easier to refer to a group by name in the chat.

If the XML requires unique names then the XML validator needs to be updated because I have gotten a file through with identically-named continents.

[isaiah40]

I like it! I like it! A definite map to play on for me

Keep it coming!

[pamoa]

honeycomb cluster naming: lowest alphanumeric hex

I insist on this point
you don't need to have the number of hexes of the group
as the only moment where you see the name is on the log when you get your bonus
and it already says the value of the bonus so you know how many territories their are in this area

I think below is clearer

... received 1 troop for holding A1
... received 7 troops for holding A3
... received 10 troops for holding G4
... received 1 troop for holding P3

than your proposal which is

... received 1 troop for holding 3A1
... received 7 troops for holding 12A3
... received 10 troops for holding 15G4
... received 1 troop for holding 3P3

btw thank for listening my other proposal

[WidowMakers]

honeycomb cluster naming: lowest alphanumeric hex

I insist on this point
you don't need to have the number of hexes of the group
as the only moment where you see the name is on the log when you get your bonus
and it already says the value of the bonus so you know how many territories their are in this area

I think below is clearer

... received 1 troop for holding A1
... received 7 troops for holding A3
... received 10 troops for holding G4
... received 1 troop for holding P3

than your proposal which is

... received 1 troop for holding 3A1
... received 7 troops for holding 12A3
... received 10 troops for holding 15G4
... received 1 troop for holding 3P3

btw thank for listening my other proposal

That does make good sense there pamoa. But we will be addingn the words Cluster or Honeycomb Cluster to the beginning.

I don't believe it is wise to have a territory names A1 and a group named the same. (and teh XML might not like it either)

Here is how it would read now.
I think below is clearer

... received 1 troop for holding Honeycomb Cluster A1
... received 7 troops for holding Honeycomb Cluster A3
... received 10 troops for holding Honeycomb Cluster G4
... received 1 troop for holding Honeycomb Cluster P3

WM

[pamoa]

perfect for me