Americans

Jgood · Post by **Jgood** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:12 pm

your telling me

tonywalrus · Post by **tonywalrus** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:44 pm

Beastly wrote:From AMERICA to YOU

You probably do not see the irony in this. But take it from me, this image says a lot more to the rest of the World than you intended. That f*ck you attitude encapsulates beautifully why the US annoys so many non US citizens around the world.

Anarkistsdream · Post by **Anarkistsdream** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:45 pm

tonywalrus wrote:
Beastly wrote:From AMERICA to YOU

You probably do not see the irony in this. But take it from me, this image says a lot more to the rest of the World than you intended. That f*ck you attitude encapsulates beautifully why the US annoys so many non US citizens around the world.

I agree with Tony in this assessment. It is also why I feel such a lack of patriotism and pride in my country..

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:58 pm

Anarkistsdream wrote:It is also why I feel such a lack of patriotism and pride in my country..

I have LOTS of pride & patriotism in my country...but none for our President & his failed policies.

areon · Post by **areon** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:59 pm

Jgood wrote:As far as the US setting up a state to influence the others, I say that sounds good. If you give people in the area an example of how a state can rule themselves, and not be ruled by a dictator, then freedom can win out. Why do you think that Iran has been supplying the terrorists? They are scared that their own people will rise up against them.

That is wrong on so many levels. The US has never supported democracy for the sake of democracy, it's a stupid slogan carried around with war and strife. Look at the track record in South America and see for yourself.

Ganjaholic420 · Post by **Ganjaholic420** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:01 pm

D.IsleRealBrown wrote:You guys are seriously starting to piss me off. Why don't you get off your fucking high horses and contribute something to society for once instead of just stealing knowledge and wealth from 3rd world countries. All you're good for is hate and pron.

Im an American (unfortunately) and I even agree with this.

Ganjaholic420 · Post by **Ganjaholic420** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:03 pm

All hail the United States of Arrogance

HaveABanana · Post by **HaveABanana** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:17 pm

I'm surprised no one has jumped on the fact that the US should have joined WWII sooner. C'mon Brits, where you at? It was one of the times when the US should have been gearing up for war and it didn't. While some of the current wars have some value that might actually stand up to scrutiny, I think it's safe to say we dropped the ball on that one. But then again, I suppose that would be the argument used for our current 'preemptive attacks'.

The problem with the preemptive attack is knowing that the attack is going to happen and that someone is telling you a bald-faced lie. Indeed, what happened to the WMD?

Sammy gags · Post by **Sammy gags** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:55 pm

i have a lot of pride & patriotism for my country, the only reason that it is still here is because I know that when a new president gets elected there will be hope...I can't imagine how it must feel for all the other country's because I am only exposed to one of his acts which is the "No Child Left Behind" act. Luckily I was in the last 'smart' generation, but i still have concern for my little sister who has great potential. Thanks for getting rid of honors classes in middle school Bush!

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:49 pm

Jgood wrote:Citing four liberal scholars and calling me an idiot is very classy.

Funny, he had WMD's when he slaughtered the Kurds. Where did they go?

As far as the US setting up a state to influence the others, I say that sounds good. If you give people in the area an example of how a state can rule themselves, and not be ruled by a dictator, then freedom can win out. Why do you think that Iran has been supplying the terrorists? They are scared that their own people will rise up against them.

Are you against freedom and democracy spreading to other nations?

or do you think that these "savages" can't govern themselves?

OK. So you didn't go away and I read. Or even check wikipedia. I'm not gonna post the sorta things those scholars theorise, but I will say tat between them they give a pretty balanced picture of the theories of international relations from various ideological viewpoints. Its not just Lib vs Con, try and get out of that little box. Just in case you were really wondering, you'd probably agree with a lot of what Morgenthau says and perhaps if you were arguing from a Realist perspective (rather than through ignorance) I might not be jumping down your throat like I am now.

Furthermore, there's a difference between freeing a land from a dictator for the sake of the people who live there and setting up a state which can serve US interests by proxy. Take a look at Somalia. The US was there (ever see Black Hawk Down?) but you left. Why? Surely you should be helping those people to set up a stable democratic regime? Oh. No. Because its not of benefit to American foreign policy. THATS hegemony and THATS what we're seeing in Iraq. Thats why the US interfered in South America to such a disasterous degree, and thats why many of the countries in western Europe (especially the UK) are so closely allied.

If you read one thing take a read of this speech: http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/analysis/2003/0110empirelite.htm

Rebecca Gavin · Post by **Rebecca Gavin** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:54 pm

Wouldn't it be cool if people just tried to resolve their differences on a cc map? I know that sounds plain and simple but, we , as a race are very much that.
This is OUR website, let's be different and, hopefully, less hostile. You win, you win...You lose, you lose...
This is where we all met. Let's continue with it...Who wants to PLAY cc?

DIRESTRAITS · Post by **DIRESTRAITS** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:39 am

Sammy gags wrote:i have a lot of pride & patriotism for my country, the only reason that it is still here is because I know that when a new president gets elected there will be hope...I can't imagine how it must feel for all the other country's because I am only exposed to one of his acts which is the "No Child Left Behind" act. Luckily I was in the last 'smart' generation, but i still have concern for my little sister who has great potential. Thanks for getting rid of honors classes in middle school Bush!

Actually he dodn't. My district is actually adding them. Its not NCLB, its the way your administrators choose to enact it

Beastly · Post by **Beastly** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:29 am

America Rules!!! get over it...

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:57 am

Guiscard wrote:
America Rules!!! AND I'M SCARED OF it...

Jgood · Post by **Jgood** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:32 pm

Thanks for the read. It was an interesting article, and I do agree with a majority of it. I did google and read on some of the other scholors you had mentioned, but the two that I read left a bitter teste in my mouth, so I stopped there.

Isn't it possible to succeed in both having influence in the region, and setting up a democracy? If we don't do it, who will? Is it fair that Bush is getting blamed for not doing anything in other parts of the world because he is in Iraq?

The truth as I see it is the US is screwed no matter what it does, If we go to one country, we don't go to others. If we go everywhere that needs help, we are leaving ourselves open at home, and seen as having to much influence on the world. If we don't go anywhere and focus on ourselves, the world will hate us more as we will be seen as selfish.

I believe in basic human rights, and do what you can to help others. I know oil has something to do with this, I don't believe that it has everything to do with this. I also think that if the fight is there, it is not happening here, yet.

Truth is there are no right answers.

But I don't believe we are a bad empire. I am proud to be an American, and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I believe we are right more than we are wrong. And I love the fact that we can discuss this openly, and not get gassed for it.

tonywalrus · Post by **tonywalrus** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:46 pm

Beastly wrote:

America Rules!!! get over it...

Yup, I was right the first time. Totally lost on you.

Ganjaholic420 · Post by **Ganjaholic420** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:30 pm

Beastly wrote:

America Rules!!! get over it...

Stereotypical arrogant American. Can you even give me 3 reasons why America is great? I wish you the best of luck...

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:41 pm

Jgood wrote:Thanks for the read. It was an interesting article, and I do agree with a majority of it. I did google and read on some of the other scholors you had mentioned, but the two that I read left a bitter teste in my mouth, so I stopped there.

Isn't it possible to succeed in both having influence in the region, and setting up a democracy? If we don't do it, who will? Is it fair that Bush is getting blamed for not doing anything in other parts of the world because he is in Iraq?

The truth as I see it is the US is screwed no matter what it does, If we go to one country, we don't go to others. If we go everywhere that needs help, we are leaving ourselves open at home, and seen as having to much influence on the world. If we don't go anywhere and focus on ourselves, the world will hate us more as we will be seen as selfish.

I believe in basic human rights, and do what you can to help others. I know oil has something to do with this, I don't believe that it has everything to do with this. I also think that if the fight is there, it is not happening here, yet.

Truth is there are no right answers.

But I don't believe we are a bad empire. I am proud to be an American, and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I believe we are right more than we are wrong. And I love the fact that we can discuss this openly, and not get gassed for it.

Its not that America is IGNORING other countries that is the problem, it is the fact that the reason they are there is hegemonic. Any country having too much power creates a very unstable international scene. Its not the promotion of democracy that is the problem. I'm not saying it will happen but what if a tyrannical leader came into power? If Nazi Germany were in the situation America is in at the moment, with no balance of power, no institutions to really check their advances and heavy influence in many other powerful states in all areas of the world... What would happen??? There has to be balance in the world, or at least a genuine acceptance of an intergovernmental organization (rather than the flawed Veto system).

Jgood · Post by **Jgood** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:47 pm

I'm not saying it will happen but what if a tyrannical leader came into power?

Yeah, Hillary scares me too....

Anarkistsdream · Post by **Anarkistsdream** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:49 pm

Jgood wrote:
I'm not saying it will happen but what if a tyrannical leader came into power?

Yeah, Hillary scares me too....

hahahaha... Funny, just because I love politics...

However, I hate to say it, but there is a good chance I'd vote for her, depending on who the Republican was.

Jgood · Post by **Jgood** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:49 pm

I don't believe that it is a flawed veto system, I still trust the constitution.

What about China, they are a huge power that keeps growing and building, Industrial, and with militarily.

Jesse, Bad Boy · Post by **Jesse, Bad Boy** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:28 pm

Jgood wrote:I don't believe that it is a flawed veto system, I still trust the constitution.

What about China, they are a huge power that keeps growing and building, Industrial, and with militarily.

Key difference between China and the US is that China is not looking to expand it's influence in a region changing way. Most of what they do stays within their own borders.

Jgood · Post by **Jgood** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:29 pm

for now, and I hope it stays that way, but?

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:30 pm

Okay how about this to pacify the argument:

I have no problem with American values but I do have a problem with the people in the government who use that excuse to do whatever they want.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:39 pm

Jgood wrote:for now, and I hope it stays that way, but?

No that's the whole point. There's no balance to America's power. The collapse of Russia after the Cold War was the end of the rival superpowers, and surprisingly no power has risen to redress the balance! If China challenge the US then, in my opinion, its generally a good thing for the state of the world.

Americans

Re: Americans