If you haven't seen the birth certificate.....

[Phatscotty]

The muslim name, also just way too convenient.

In other words you're a trolling, racist, moronic prick?

I know you are but what am I?

[jonesthecurl]

A very witty person with an original response.

[Phatscotty]

A very witty person with an original response.

well, i am surrounded by people who take politcians at their words. no matter what proof you have, no matter what side you are on, always idiots "well soandso SAID they were thisorthat" gimme a break

[Fircoal]

The real question, is why do you care so much if he was born in Kenya or not? He was born in Hawaii, there's proof of that, but even if he wasn't. Who really cares? Just cause he was born in Kenya doesn't mean he's loyal to it. (Just like someone born in the US isn't always loyal to it)

[Strife]

The real question, is why do you care so much if he was born in Kenya or not? He was born in Hawaii, there's proof of that, but even if he wasn't. Who really cares? Just cause he was born in Kenya doesn't mean he's loyal to it. (Just like someone born in the US isn't always loyal to it)

I believe you have to be born in the United States to become it's president at the moment, I hear there was a bill that was going to change it to a citizen but not sure if it was passed.

[DangerBoy]

This is ridiculous

Barack Obama was born in America. He won the election. He's the president.

Case closed

[waseemalim]

The real question, is why do you care so much if he was born in Kenya or not? He was born in Hawaii, there's proof of that, but even if he wasn't. Who really cares? Just cause he was born in Kenya doesn't mean he's loyal to it. (Just like someone born in the US isn't always loyal to it)

I believe you have to be born in the United States to become it's president at the moment, I hear there was a bill that was going to change it to a citizen but not sure if it was passed.

You have to be born in the US or one of your parents have to American. Anyway, I dont see what a white woman would be doing in Kenya back in the 1960s. Obama's dad was a foreign student from Kenya, and he married his mom who was a us student. Dont know why that is so difficult to believe.

@phatscotty: And so what if a Kenyan is running the country. You think the whites are smarter than blacks? Isnt that a bit KKK-ist?

[Frigidus]

@phatscotty: And so what if a Kenyan is running the country. You think the whites are smarter than blacks? Isnt that a bit KKK-ist?

The Kenyan thing is just a legal excuse thrown up to shadow the fact that some people won't accept a black (half-black, I know, whatever) president. How many white president's birth certificates have you seen? I haven't seen a single one. Gee, I wonder what made people so suspicious this time around...

[MeDeFe]

The real question, is why do you care so much if he was born in Kenya or not? He was born in Hawaii, there's proof of that, but even if he wasn't. Who really cares? Just cause he was born in Kenya doesn't mean he's loyal to it. (Just like someone born in the US isn't always loyal to it)

As others said, currently you have to be born as a USA citizen to be eligible for being elected president. It's a rather stupid law imo.

[Carebian Knight]

@phatscotty: And so what if a Kenyan is running the country. You think the whites are smarter than blacks? Isnt that a bit KKK-ist?

The Kenyan thing is just a legal excuse thrown up to shadow the fact that some people won't accept a black (half-black, I know, whatever) president. How many white president's birth certificates have you seen? I haven't seen a single one. Gee, I wonder what made people so suspicious this time around...

Fear.

Obama's background includes just about everything that has to do with hating America in most Americans opinions. He has a Muslim background and has slipped up a few times calling himself a Muslim instead of a Christian(odd imo). The average American today associates Muslim with terrorist. They only here about the extremist Muslims that want to bring about an end to Western Civilization and they associate that with every Muslim in the world.

He's also half-Kenyan(black). No matter what anyone says, racism is nowhere near dead. There is racism on both sides, there are blacks calling for retribution for years of slavery(Obama's old pastor did something like this, odd again imo). In the meantime most whites that aren't still racist are scared about the possibility of that retribution coming to pass.

IMO, the people that continue to fight for total access to his proof of eligibility are better than those that have lain down and accepted Obama's word just because he's half-black or a good public speaker. They see his story and can't get enough of it, they like him because they think he's an average American. He spent time in Kansas(or some state like that) on a farm like any other farmer in America. He grew up and made his way for his own education and rose through the political ladder very quickly.

I don't really care whether he's Kenyan or American. I don't like him. His policies never made sense to me and his performance so far has disgusted me. Many of the things he criticized Bush for he has continued or made worse. He continues to bail out failing entities instead of giving stimulus to the average American and allowing the populace to decide who survives and who dies. Last I checked that's what a free market was.

[Frigidus]

Obama's background includes just about everything that has to do with hating America in most Americans opinions.

Oh, come on, most Americans certainly don't think Obama hates America. I'd argue that all reasonable people don't think Obama hates America.

He has a Muslim background

What a terrible person.

and has slipped up a few times calling himself a Muslim instead of a Christian(odd imo).

Source? I haven't heard this anywhere.

The average American today associates Muslim with terrorist. They only here about the extremist Muslims that want to bring about an end to Western Civilization and they associate that with every Muslim in the world.

Well, that's racism isn't it? I mean, wouldn't you say that's a very twisted view of the world?

In the meantime most whites that aren't still racist are scared about the possibility of that retribution coming to pass.

I'd say that fearing retribution from an entire race, while not perhaps outright racist, is very prejudiced. At the very least it shows a lack of understanding of that group of people.

IMO, the people that continue to fight for total access to his proof of eligibility are better than those that have lain down and accepted Obama's word just because he's half-black or a good public speaker.

Neither of those are reasons that people assume he is an American (at least to my knowledge).

I don't really care whether he's Kenyan or American. I don't like him. His policies never made sense to me and his performance so far has disgusted me. Many of the things he criticized Bush for he has continued or made worse. He continues to bail out failing entities instead of giving stimulus to the average American and allowing the populace to decide who survives and who dies. Last I checked that's what a free market was.

OK, while I disagree with this it isn't an unreasonable position. But come on, what you described above was basically a longer, slightly more sympathetic, way of saying they want to see the birth certificate because they're racist. Sure, not anything KKK level, but it doesn't take a white hood to make one a racist. Fear of Muslims and blacks isn't racist?

[Phatscotty]

race has nothing to do with it. there is only one side that continues to bring race into it. quite hypocritical.

[Fircoal]

The real question, is why do you care so much if he was born in Kenya or not? He was born in Hawaii, there's proof of that, but even if he wasn't. Who really cares? Just cause he was born in Kenya doesn't mean he's loyal to it. (Just like someone born in the US isn't always loyal to it)

I believe you have to be born in the United States to become it's president at the moment, I hear there was a bill that was going to change it to a citizen but not sure if it was passed.

Uh Strife I'm well aware that is the law, I'm just more wondering why it is the law, and why some people actually care if that law is broken or not.

[Titanic]

race has nothing to do with it. there is only one side that continues to bring race into it. quite hypocritical.

Well CarribeanKnight actually brought it up first, so its seems that is your side...

[MeDeFe]

The real question, is why do you care so much if he was born in Kenya or not? He was born in Hawaii, there's proof of that, but even if he wasn't. Who really cares? Just cause he was born in Kenya doesn't mean he's loyal to it. (Just like someone born in the US isn't always loyal to it)

I believe you have to be born in the United States to become it's president at the moment, I hear there was a bill that was going to change it to a citizen but not sure if it was passed.

Uh Strife I'm well aware that is the law, I'm just more wondering why it is the law, and why some people actually care if that law is broken or not.

Back when the law was written people probably believed that there was some mystical bond that made a person love the rock they were born on more than any other rock. Even more than whatever rock they end up sitting on.

[Frigidus]

race has nothing to do with it. there is only one side that continues to bring race into it. quite hypocritical.

Your side brings up the Muslim bit all the time, and even if they don't I still don't see a legitimate reason aside from race that you want to see Obama's birth certificate as opposed to George Bush's or Bill Clinton's.

[Carebian Knight]

First, you twisted quite a few of my phrases. Second, you seem to believe that I am one of the people I was referring to. Third, answers in bold.

Obama's background includes just about everything that has to do with hating America in most Americans opinions.

Oh, come on, most Americans certainly don't think Obama hates America. I'd argue that all reasonable people don't think Obama hates America.

I never said most Americans hate Obama, I said that most Americans associate his background with the same people that have reasons to hate America

He has a Muslim background

What a terrible person.

You seem to think I hate him because he's Muslim, I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about the average American that I've met throughout my life.

and has slipped up a few times calling himself a Muslim instead of a Christian(odd imo).

Source? I haven't heard this anywhere.

It's on youtube. He slipped up in an interview saying "my Muslim religion" and was corrected after about 10 seconds by the interviewer. It's possible that his mind was wandering and he got tongue-tied or something, but I've never slipped up when talking about my religion and he has done it publicly 2 or 3 times.

The average American today associates Muslim with terrorist. They only here about the extremist Muslims that want to bring about an end to Western Civilization and they associate that with every Muslim in the world.

Well, that's racism isn't it? I mean, wouldn't you say that's a very twisted view of the world?

It's prejudice, not racism. Muslim isn't a race. That is a very twisted view of the world. It's brought about by the main media in America and the average Americans unwillingness to actually look up their own information. On the news you here about The Taliban and Al-Qaeda and such attacking civilians and extremist Muslims calling for the destruction of Israel. You don't hear about the Muslims that aren't extremist, so most seem to just think that the only kind of Muslim is an extremist Muslim.

In the meantime most whites that aren't still racist are scared about the possibility of that retribution coming to pass.

I'd say that fearing retribution from an entire race, while not perhaps outright racist, is very prejudiced. At the very least it shows a lack of understanding of that group of people.

I agree it shows a lack of understanding of that group of people, but don't know where you got the racist part from. It's human nature to get revenge, the abolitionists and most of the civil rights leaders didn't call for retribution, they called for an end to racism in all forms. Now that it has been secured for the most part, more and more are speaking out about the oppression of the whites on the blacks and talking of "retribution." Those that fear the passing of that retribution are simply giving into human instinct, I don't get how you think fear and racism are always connected.

IMO, the people that continue to fight for total access to his proof of eligibility are better than those that have lain down and accepted Obama's word just because he's half-black or a good public speaker.

Neither of those are reasons that people assume he is an American (at least to my knowledge).

Did you watch the weeks leading up to the election? The polls and everything that were taken at the time. Many people admitted that they were voting for Obama because he was half-black. The good public speaker thing just goes back to people not actually researching someone. Obama is a much better speaker than McCain is, so more people are naturally going to be drawn to him, it's historical fact.

I don't really care whether he's Kenyan or American. I don't like him. His policies never made sense to me and his performance so far has disgusted me. Many of the things he criticized Bush for he has continued or made worse. He continues to bail out failing entities instead of giving stimulus to the average American and allowing the populace to decide who survives and who dies. Last I checked that's what a free market was.

OK, while I disagree with this it isn't an unreasonable position. But come on, what you described above was basically a longer, slightly more sympathetic, way of saying they want to see the birth certificate because they're racist. Sure, not anything KKK level, but it doesn't take a white hood to make one a racist. Fear of Muslims and blacks isn't racist?

No I was explaining that they wanted to see the birth certificate because so far there has been no DEFINITIVE proof that he was born in Hawaii. All those of us that don't live in Hawaii have to go on is the word of someone else and pictures in papers.

[Carebian Knight]

race has nothing to do with it. there is only one side that continues to bring race into it. quite hypocritical.

Obama never brought race into it. His supporters did, Obama asked many times that his race not be brought into it. Now if he actually expected his race to not matter then he's even more of a moron than I thought.

Well CarribeanKnight actually brought it up first, so its seems that is your side...

I believe he's referring to the real world, not CC. If you are going to talk about me, at least have the courtesy to spell my name correctly, it's only like three posts back.

Your side brings up the Muslim bit all the time, and even if they don't I still don't see a legitimate reason aside from race that you want to see Obama's birth certificate as opposed to George Bush's or Bill Clinton's.

Yes, Obama's opposition does bring up the Muslim thing all the time. Obama however isn't helping to much. Some months ago he decided that the US shouldn't give so much aid to Israel and should instead talk to the other Middle East countries for peace(talk about not knowing a group of people.) The Arab countries of the Middle East will never be talked into peace, they will only sign peace with Israel on their own terms in their own time. I'm not talking about the Muslim-Jewish tension either, there is now Israeli-Arab tension that runs just as deep. The Middle East won't see peace anytime soon but many seem to refuse to believe that.

[Titanic]

Yes, Obama's opposition does bring up the Muslim thing all the time. Obama however isn't helping to much. Some months ago he decided that the US shouldn't give so much aid to Israel and should instead talk to the other Middle East countries for peace(talk about not knowing a group of people.) The Arab countries of the Middle East will never be talked into peace, they will only sign peace with Israel on their own terms in their own time. I'm not talking about the Muslim-Jewish tension either, there is now Israeli-Arab tension that runs just as deep. The Middle East won't see peace anytime soon but many seem to refuse to believe that.

Thats complete crap. Israel and Egypt signed a peace treaty years ago, after long negotiations where both sides were happy with the agreement. The attitude your taking will mean that there will never be peace in the Middle East, Obama's route of actually talking to the countries can and has led to more peaceful and cooperative situations, as shown by historical examples. Also, Obama being friendly has led to a huge split within Iran as they do not know how to respond. When Bush put them in the Axis of Evil all Iran needed to do was tell its citizens that USA was imperialist, be nice to them and suddenly your the good guy and the dictatorship and other regimes find it harder to convince the populations that the foreigners are evil and should be hated.

[waseemalim]

you guys really think that this guy (Obama) would even have a shot at presidency if his citizenship was questioned. FoX news would tear him up. There is a whole republican machine way smarter and more effective than any of you guys over here can be.

As for bailing out the mega corporations. Would you really leave your car factory workers to die? I mean yea I can totally see why that makes so sense. But the banks havent really had much of a bailout -- they received a loan and with some upside equity -- and they have repaid most of it. Last time I checked, the government even got a pretty decent return on it.

[AgentSmith88]

Why the F would you defend something you've never seen? never been released to you? all you have is a politician/lawyers word(how you think a politician/lawyer is trustworthy is beyond me).

What we don't know - if the birth certificate exists(you CAN NOT say it does for sure if you haven't seen it)

What we do know - He has a Kenyan/muslim name, and was raised in mulsim countries until he was 10

AS of this moment you defenders are going on BLIND FAITH, and that is VERY DANGEROUS

Soooooo, you must not believe in God then either, since you haven't SEEN Him and are going on blind faith. Maybe you don't believe in protons and electrons because you haven't SEEN them either. What about other galaxies? I've never SEEN someone drink a gallon of milk in an hour, so it must be impossible. Yep, unless someone has SEEN it, it doesn't count. Blind people must have a LOT of faith. Sheesh.

[Carebian Knight]

Thats complete crap. Israel and Egypt signed a peace treaty years ago, after long negotiations where both sides were happy with the agreement. The attitude your taking will mean that there will never be peace in the Middle East, Obama's route of actually talking to the countries can and has led to more peaceful and cooperative situations, as shown by historical examples. Also, Obama being friendly has led to a huge split within Iran as they do not know how to respond. When Bush put them in the Axis of Evil all Iran needed to do was tell its citizens that USA was imperialist, be nice to them and suddenly your the good guy and the dictatorship and other regimes find it harder to convince the populations that the foreigners are evil and should be hated.

The Arab countries of the Middle East will never be talked into peace, they will only sign peace with Israel on their own terms in their own time. I'm not talking about the Muslim-Jewish tension either, there is now Israeli-Arab tension that runs just as deep. The Middle East won't see peace anytime soon but many seem to refuse to believe that.

Please point out where in that post I said that The Middle East will never see peace. Or instead you could go back and read it again and then create a reply that actually makes sense. The average Iranian didn't have a problem with America when Bush was in office, there was no split because of Obama. The gov't hates America because we tried to oust them. Obama is talking to countries that have proven by historical examples that they don't care. Maybe the current gov't will say that there can be peace, but the next gov't isn't required to follow that promise.

Egypt signed peace with Israel because they got what they wanted from it. They got the Sinai back and a promise that Israel wouldn't invade it again. Now they are good buddies, Egypt and Israel work together quite often. What other Arab nation can get what they want from Israel? None of them. They are either ruled by the extremist Muslim belief that Israel has to be wiped off the map, or they want the territory that Israel currently owns. Israel has always been happy to go to the table with it's neighbors and discuss terms, they have made many concessions in the past, Egypt being one of them. The other nations simply want more than Israel is able to offer and that is why there will not be peace in the Middle East anytime soon, no matter how convincing Obama is.

[pimpdave]

ATTN: BIRTHERS

Get more exercise.

[Titanic]

Please point out where in that post I said that The Middle East will never see peace. Or instead you could go back and read it again and then create a reply that actually makes sense. The average Iranian didn't have a problem with America when Bush was in office, there was no split because of Obama. The gov't hates America because we tried to oust them. Obama is talking to countries that have proven by historical examples that they don't care. Maybe the current gov't will say that there can be peace, but the next gov't isn't required to follow that promise.

Egypt signed peace with Israel because they got what they wanted from it. They got the Sinai back and a promise that Israel wouldn't invade it again. Now they are good buddies, Egypt and Israel work together quite often. What other Arab nation can get what they want from Israel? None of them. They are either ruled by the extremist Muslim belief that Israel has to be wiped off the map, or they want the territory that Israel currently owns. Israel has always been happy to go to the table with it's neighbors and discuss terms, they have made many concessions in the past, Egypt being one of them. The other nations simply want more than Israel is able to offer and that is why there will not be peace in the Middle East anytime soon, no matter how convincing Obama is.

"The average Iranian didn't have a problem with America when Bush was in office" - This quote alone proves that you do not know anything.

"The gov't hates America because we tried to oust them." - No, their hatred extends from when we reinstated the Shah about 50 years ago and took away their democratically elected leader, and all of it for oil (shows how much we have advanced since then...).

"Obama is talking to countries that have proven by historical examples that they don't care." - The IRA had no historical example of caring or wanting peace, but from the mid-90's onwards intense diplomatic efforts have worked and NI and the UK as a whole are now peaceful.

"What other Arab nation can get what they want from Israel? None of them. They are either ruled by the extremist Muslim belief that Israel has to be wiped off the map, or they want the territory that Israel currently owns." - You've managed to categorise ever single Arab country into those two categories? Ignorant much?

"Israel has always been happy to go to the table with it's neighbors and discuss terms, they have made many concessions in the past," - I would hardly say Israel has been reasonable in its negotiations. Look at the situation currently, they continue to take over Palestinian land in East Jerusalem and evict Muslims and throw them out of their houses so that they can build more houses on the land for Israeli citizens. Israel cannot be described as a good country which has always seeked peaceful solutions, a lot of its current problems and violence are self-inflicted.

[Carebian Knight]

Answers in bold again.

"The average Iranian didn't have a problem with America when Bush was in office" - This quote alone proves that you do not know anything.

Prove to me that is incorrect

"The gov't hates America because we tried to oust them." - No, their hatred extends from when we reinstated the Shah about 50 years ago and took away their democratically elected leader, and all of it for oil (shows how much we have advanced since then...).

Yes, we screwed with their gov't. Maybe not what I said exactly but along the same lines.

"Obama is talking to countries that have proven by historical examples that they don't care." - The IRA had no historical example of caring or wanting peace, but from the mid-90's onwards intense diplomatic efforts have worked and NI and the UK as a whole are now peaceful.

Before I can answer this truthfully you are going to have to expand the abbreviations.

"What other Arab nation can get what they want from Israel? None of them. They are either ruled by the extremist Muslim belief that Israel has to be wiped off the map, or they want the territory that Israel currently owns." - You've managed to categorise ever single Arab country into those two categories? Ignorant much?

Those are very vague categories, I don't see the issue with putting all Middle East Arab countries into those two categories. Please point out the countries other than Egypt that don't fit into these categories.

"Israel has always been happy to go to the table with it's neighbors and discuss terms, they have made many concessions in the past," - I would hardly say Israel has been reasonable in its negotiations. Look at the situation currently, they continue to take over Palestinian land in East Jerusalem and evict Muslims and throw them out of their houses so that they can build more houses on the land for Israeli citizens. Israel cannot be described as a good country which has always seeked peaceful solutions, a lot of its current problems and violence are self-inflicted.

Recently, your right Israel has turned into quite the bully. When the state was first formed Israel was the one that complied with the negotiations and their enemies were the ones that usually broke them. IMO Israel got tired of it and has finally started fighting fire with fire. Is it right? No. Is it the best strategy? No. Do they have more reason than their enemies to do it? Yes.