Scotland

edmundomcpot · Post by **edmundomcpot** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:36 am

Apparntly she wishes to break from the union. I know this is kinda old news but i havnt seen it disscussed on here

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:53 am

edmundomcpot wrote:Apparntly she wishes to break from the union.

Nah, a bunch of malcontents and losers who need someone to blame for their pitiful lives. Because there aren't many black or Indian people in Scotland, they indulge in anti-English racism* instead, and half-heartedly demanding independence sort of goes hand-in-hand with that.

Well, bollocks to that, I'm Scottish, but if it ever happens, I'll stay in England and take English (or British or whatever) citizenship.

edmundomcpot wrote:I know this is kinda old news but i havnt seen it disscussed on here

Probably because there's not much room for proving/disproving the existence of God in this subject, but I'm sure it can be shoe-horned in, somehow.

* Unless they're Glaswegian, where the malcontents and losers seem to prefer religious sectarianism instead.

edmundomcpot · Post by **edmundomcpot** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:01 am

I think it will happen eventually, unless the bnp take power...which is bad for everyone

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:09 am

Not to be complacent, but if the BNP ever take power, I'll eat the tin-foil hat in my avatar!

gordon1975 · Post by **gordon1975** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:35 am

id welcome independence just to see the look on the faces of all the loyalist idiots that seem to be moving to my town from northen ireland,i dont agree with stoppers comments, it isnt because were anti english,or have a chip on our shoulders,i think change would be good for all partys,we just want decisions made relating to our country made in this country(not in london) is that such a bad thing to want?

edmundomcpot · Post by **edmundomcpot** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:57 am

you already have a scottish paliament, which has far more power then the welsh assembly could dream of. think yourself lucky.

Seperation would just cause chaos. How the hell would you split the military. what would happen to the scottish/welsh ministers in westminster e.g. Gordon Brown..its enevitable that hes going to succed Blair but hes scottish..would the english have to re-elect.

Plus I doubt Elizibeth would let it happen anyway, let the home of the kingdom split

Scotland will only declare independance after the Falklands become independant, and the Queen doesnt seem very keen to let them go

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:59 am

I'll wait and watch, will you at least join the EU? And will the Queen still be Head of State?

happysadfun · Post by **happysadfun** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:00 pm

I dunno, could it be like Australia-New Zealand? Same army?

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:04 pm

gordon1975 wrote:id welcome independence just to see the look on the faces of all the loyalist idiots that seem to be moving to my town from northen ireland,i dont agree with stoppers comments, it isnt because were anti english,or have a chip on our shoulders,i think change would be good for all partys,we just want decisions made relating to our country made in this country(not in london) is that such a bad thing to want?

Actually, I can see the good reasons why people want independence, (though I'm not in favour and most people aren't) - but when I typed my first comment, I was thinking of one group of people (quite a lot, and quite a varied group, though a minority): those that tend to be casually anti-English all the time.

These people, in my opinion, tend to inflate the apparent support for independence, but when they get the opportunity, they won't go for it...even if all they have to do is dawdle down to the nearest polling station and tick "Yes" in a referendum.

EDIT: Why did I say "tick"? I mean cross.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:22 pm

Unfortunately I shall not allow them to break from the Union until they can beat us at Rugby...

Not today then

gordon1975 · Post by **gordon1975** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:37 pm

well we will see what happens in the elections,as for the royals they should go back to germany,scotland doesnt need them and either does the rest of the uk.

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:59 pm

FREE NORTHERN IRELAND!

I never thought i'd be able to say that somewhere.

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:36 pm

reverend_kyle wrote:FREE NORTHERN IRELAND!

I never thought i'd be able to say that somewhere.

And I'm glad to see that you got the chance...

Pity it's about 10 years too late..Things have moved on a wee bit. Just ask Gerry Adams.

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:39 pm

ha ha scotland lost the rugby,

who gets the oil?? legal discussion who knows...

DAZMCFC · Post by **DAZMCFC** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:41 pm

now i do not want scotland to be idependant. when i go and see my aunties and cousins in glasgow. i do not want to take my passport. also i would still like to call myself british and not english, with my mother being scottish and my father also and my brothers aswell. i was born in england but i support scotland in sport. it was a bad day at the rugby. :oops:

Titanic · Post by **Titanic** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:28 am

Scotland will not be independent for the simple reason that if it is independent it is a nobody in world relations. Stick with the UK and they have a much bigger part in the world then as a separate nation. Also, splitting up the UK will be too hard as it would have to be done militarily, socially, politically and other -lly. It will take too much work, and after it happens having to use a passport and going through checks to get into Scotland will make Scotland deserted as no one from England, Wales or NI would want to travel regularly to Scotland. Also, one side effect will be that the UK may lose its seat on the UN Security Council as it will no longer be the UK, and the G4 could challenge England, Wales, NI for its seat.

I don’t believe Scotland will break up from the UK as it would just not be in its interest economically, politically, militarily, technologically and because Scotland will just be another small country, like Luxembourg, Belgium, Serbia etc.. rather then a world power like Germany, Japan, France etc…

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:26 pm

its interesting how the Conservatives (and the right in general) have always had the Union as one of their policy mainstays.

Now, however, the whole 'English MPs making English laws, Scottish MPs making Scottish laws' nationalist bullshit is directly opposed to the Union the Conservatives have argued so vehemently to protect for so long!

Titanic's points about why Scotland won't break the Union are, in my opinion, valid. Its only a small minority of Scottish people who take the idea seriously, and the increasing votes for the SNP seem more a protest than a genuine agreement with their policy. I think they'll probably evaporate when they've got a Scot to vote for in the next election rather than some simpering English posh wanker.

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:28 pm

Guiscard wrote:simpering English posh wanker.

Actually, just as a point of interest, he was born in Scotland, too, and went to boarding school there.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:33 pm

To be honest its not so much my opinion as those of Scottish people I've met

I just asked my Scottish flatmate who pronounced that 'If the lad don't speak like north 't border he int't Scotch' - Whatever that means...

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:36 pm

Guiscard wrote:I just asked my Scottish flatmate who pronounced that 'If the lad don't speak like north 't border he int't Scotch' - Whatever that means...

Are you sure he isn't from Yorkshire?? :-s

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:50 pm

Its a she and no she's very definitely Scottish...

Just my typing that's not I'm afraid.

flashleg8 · Post by **flashleg8** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:20 am

I'm Scottish but I certainly don't support the Nationalist cause. I agree with other posters that the SNP are gaining a lot of protest votes as the only viable opposition to Labour in Scotland. If they gain power in the May elections (possibly with an SNP/liberal coalition) then I believe a referendum would fail.
I don't disagree with the idea that that Scotland could be a viable state economically or indeed on a world stage - I would present the example of Ireland’s economic boom after joining the Euro and the power it gained in the EU. But I would say that this is a step in the wrong direction, I believe we should be more international with the EU becoming more integrated not more fractionated.

Titanic · Post by **Titanic** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:24 am

The EU has to become integrated otherwise our influence in the world will fall to the likes of CHina, India and Brazil in about 40/50 years. With the EU we would actually be in a stronger position then we currently are. I dont think Scotland would benefit from breaking the Union and joining the EU, because atm they get more money per head from taxes then they actually pay in taxes.

flashleg8 · Post by **flashleg8** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:08 am

Titanic wrote: because atm they get more money per head from taxes then they actually pay in taxes.

This is not strictly true. Scottish people do indeed per capita get more state money than anyone else in the UK (partially due to the high unemployment levels) and you're right again that this is more than they pay in personal taxes - but you forget to factor in the extra revenue from the North Sea oilfield (this is currently counted as UK wide business taxes). When you factor this into the equation Scotland is a positive net provider to the UK economy. Now it is a question who owns the oil fields Scotland vs UK but if Scotland was independent there is enough oil left (we have only extracted around half) to create a social fund that would fund out of the interest Scotland’s social care/benefits in perpetuity (in a similar format to the style I believe Norway uses with its North Sea oil revenue). I personally do not advocate this as I think the UKs resources should be shared equally for the benefit of all - I believe we work better in partnership.

Scotland

Scotland

Re: Scotland