Antarctica v9 [I, Gp, Gr]

[MrBenn]

Much as it saddens me, I've moved this map to the recycling bin, as e_i_pi has stated his intention to retire it.

Hopefully this is only a temporary intermission - and that one of the CAs will soon recieve a PM to say it's back up and running.

MrBenn

[bryguy]

what? NO!!! I LOVED this map!!! Dont abandon it now!!

[Incandenza]

This disappoints me greatly.

[oaktown]

Hopefully this is only a temporary intermission - and that one of the CAs will soon recieve a PM to say it's back up and running.

Agreed... sometimes we all need a break from this place. I wish e_i_pi well and hope he comes back to this someday.

[e_i_pi]

Change this to vacation, I'll not have my corpse picked at by vultures and seagulls

[e_i_pi]

Take this out of dead bin please, I need to generate some discussion over graphics elements.

[Incandenza]

Great to hear, pi! I'll see if I can dig someone up to move this.

[TaCktiX]

Woot, it returns! I was waiting for you to come back to this. Now to pick apart every last one of its nuances graphically.

[oaktown]

this map always had a lot of potential... glad to see you back at it!

[MrBenn]

Let's get the boat back on the road

[e_i_pi]

Incan: Thanks, you've always been a good supporter in the Foundry

Tack: Start nit-picking now, no need to hold up

Oaktown: Thanks for your kind words, I still find your avatar both disturbing and oddly attractive

Benn: Cheers for the boat-launch


Main corcerns right now:

• Gameplay never got enough discussion before it was stamped. In fact I recall being just about the only one discussing it, though there was input from I think oak, gimil, and possibly Incan? Anyhow, I spent a lot of time planning gameplay, but I think it could do with a reprise.
• Graphically, the small version will be fine (in terms of army circles / readability etc). So although people have requested that be put up, I'd rather get the large version perfected, then do the trim down.
• XML isn't a problem, I can start working on that now, or when I'm at work, it'll take me maybe 3 hours or so.
• I'd rather have the black background than stars, I don't think the map needs it. It feels a lot cleaner without stars.
• Colours: I think it's been established that the colours are okay, but if oak could give it the once over, that'd be appreciated
• Texture: I'm happy with it, concerns from anyone else?
• Ships and arrows: These could be redone, but I don't want the ships to be top-down, and I don't want them to be huge. I went with images that look like tankers. Any ideas / input on this?
• Army circles: The ones on land could probably do with lightening, judging by the ones on Ronne (lime continent), Thwaite (dk blue continent) and Transantarctic (red continent)
• Continent names: Keep them on the main map, or shift them to the legend?
• Moving ticker: This one's out unfortunately, unless someone can twist lack's arm to allow maps to have one image overlaid on another

[reggie_mac]

Gameplay never got enough discussion before it was stamped. In fact I recall being just about the only one discussing it, though there was input from I think oak, gimil, and possibly Incan? Anyhow, I spent a lot of time planning gameplay, but I think it could do with a reprise.

I think you've balanced the game play out nicely here, there is no real advantage to anyone when starting. I am wondering however, if on a game of less than 8 players if the starting positions will be a random drop on the starts or will they be defined. ie in the 3 play game 2 people may start on one side of the map, and 1 may start on the other. This is going to give the person on their own a bit of an advantage as they have no-one to contend with for the first few turns.

Graphically, the small version will be fine (in terms of army circles / readability etc). So although people have requested that be put up, I'd rather get the large version perfected, then do the trim down.

I would agree here

XML isn't a problem, I can start working on that now, or when I'm at work, it'll take me maybe 3 hours or so.

I also find i do my best CC at work.

I'd rather have the black background than stars, I don't think the map needs it. It feels a lot cleaner without stars.

Again i would agree here, however the atmospheric fade doesn't feel quite right, i think it may need to be made a tad lighter, and possibly extended another 20%-30%

Colours: I think it's been established that the colours are okay, but if oak could give it the once over, that'd be appreciated

I like them, I think after the amount of time you went through changing them already, if they are ok for color impaired vision then you should lock it in

Texture: I'm happy with it, concerns from anyone else?

I also like it, if anything the transition between the mountains and territories is maybe a little harsh/abrupt, but not a huge concern.

Ships and arrows: These could be redone, but I don't want the ships to be top-down, and I don't want them to be huge. I went with images that look like tankers. Any ideas / input on this?

the only thing i can see is that the wake coming from the back of ships, it can be hard to pick up where the ship ends and the wake begins, if that transitions was more clearly defined then they should be good (i like the little bits of noise in the wake, gives it a little something)

Army circles: The ones on land could probably do with lightening, judging by the ones on Ronne (lime continent), Thwaite (dk blue continent) and Transantarctic (red continent)

Or possible just make the border of the army circle more defined/darker?

Continent names: Keep them on the main map, or shift them to the legend?

Either/Or they could possibly be a little more readable on the mini map

Moving ticker: This one's out unfortunately, unless someone can twist lack's arm to allow maps to have one image overlaid on another

Gif or PNG could possibly work here, if you really want to try this i can have a go at a few things, get in touch.

Im happy you've decided to pick this up again, i really like this map.

[e_i_pi]

TO-DO LIST

• Change territory font to something Sans Serif
• Redo arrows pointing towards South Pole
• Improve quality of TV screen legends
• Do XML

Any other suggestions?

[e_i_pi]

A fair few aesthetic changes, just trying to juggle things around to breathe some life back into this

[bigimg]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll71/e_i_pi/AntarcticaV85a.jpg[/bigimg]

[sailorseal]

Let's get the boat back on the road

Silly Benn, cars are for roads

The map feels, overall a bit "shiny".
I mean to say that along the edge of it, the water is such a bright white that it feels like the side of a car caught in the sun.
Maybe tone it down a little.
Great map!

[lgoasklucyl]

Hm, I'm not sure what it is graphically that's bugging me.

I feel like maybe the continent colors are slightly under-saturated, especially in comparison to the blue of the rest of the world surrounding it?

[TaCktiX]

Alrighty, so you want me to nitpick the crap out of it...here goes:

Gameplay
- There are a lot of things on this map that have assumed terminology. Fleets and ports are never identified on map anywhere, whilst far more common and obvious things like one-ways and impassables are. Adding in some identifier of the port symbol and the fleet look would be good.
- The new South Pole look is borderline confusing. I know the one-ways-of-doom look wasn't working, but the bubble-bath look isn't doing it either.
- You have two abbreviated territories (aside from fleets, which make sense) on the entire map: Pine Is. and Trans. I think with some work you could remove the abbreviations entirely, particularly in the former case. Look into it if you could.

Graphics
- The continent name locations sometimes work, and sometimes don't. West Ant.(arctica) and Queen Maud Land are not as readable as the rest, and that's likely caused by the text going over multiple different color backgrounds. Perhaps a slightly less transparent continent name look?
- I don't like the texture that defines the separations between continents. It looks like sewing thread from a quilt.
- The arrows on the fleets are sometimes good, sometimes bad. For instance, GBR's left arrow looks great, and its right arrow looks like an ivy leaf. Here are the other ones: left USA, both FRA, left AUS, both NOR. In general, the arrows look fairly inconsistent in look, some standardization should help to fix.
- There are several inexplicable blue patches all over the map, even one in the middle of the impassable next to the South Pole. I know it may be accurate, but it looks like a bunch of gaffs and oversights. Really small blue, eliminate. (Only on land, though, coast is fine)

Those other 8 nations wanting the South Pole for themselves? Well, they, and this map, just got
.

[owenshooter]

[quote="e_i_pi"]A fair few aesthetic changes, just trying to juggle things around to breathe some life back into this

that is just a very cool map... what are you hoping to fix? what are the snags? what is up? work, work, work!!-0

[e_i_pi]

Alrighty, so you want me to nitpick the crap out of it...here goes:

Gameplay
- There are a lot of things on this map that have assumed terminology. Fleets and ports are never identified on map anywhere, whilst far more common and obvious things like one-ways and impassables are. Adding in some identifier of the port symbol and the fleet look would be good.

Yeah, that's an oversight

- The new South Pole look is borderline confusing. I know the one-ways-of-doom look wasn't working, but the bubble-bath look isn't doing it either.

The only other option left is have it as a normal border. I have tried numerous different ways of fixing this problem, and every way I come up with is wrong to someone somewhere.

- You have two abbreviated territories (aside from fleets, which make sense) on the entire map: Pine Is. and Trans. I think with some work you could remove the abbreviations entirely, particularly in the former case. Look into it if you could.

I recall getting criticised for having names too long that it became confusing which territory they were. Back on the merry-go-round of changes it seems...

Graphics

- The continent name locations sometimes work, and sometimes don't. West Ant.(arctica) and Queen Maud Land are not as readable as the rest, and that's likely caused by the text going over multiple different color backgrounds. Perhaps a slightly less transparent continent name look?

I'll make them less transparent, soo how that goes, but this is yet another "nitpick" area that never seems to go right. I have made such subtle changes as going from 30% fill to 35% fill, and that becomes way too much.

- I don't like the texture that defines the separations between continents. It looks like sewing thread from a quilt.

I was going for something different, trying to change things up a bit. I'll switch it back to something else

- The arrows on the fleets are sometimes good, sometimes bad. For instance, GBR's left arrow looks great, and its right arrow looks like an ivy leaf. Here are the other ones: left USA, both FRA, left AUS, both NOR. In general, the arrows look fairly inconsistent in look, some standardization should help to fix.

I hate doing those arrows, but yes I'll fix up the ones you have pointed out

- There are several inexplicable blue patches all over the map, even one in the middle of the impassable next to the South Pole. I know it may be accurate, but it looks like a bunch of gaffs and oversights. Really small blue, eliminate. (Only on land, though, coast is fine)

Uh yeah, artifacts from a process. I re-arranged the PSD file, and merged layers which then affected some other parts of the file. It's just a matter of going over with a fine-toothed comb. Keep in mind that several "lakes" will be kept in, such as around Oates and Princess Elizabeth. The main ones that stick out that shouldn't be there are Icestream, Alexander (near mountains), Totten, Denman. There's lots of little ones too.

Those other 8 nations wanting the South Pole for themselves? Well, they, and this map, just got
.

I have no idea what this means. I assume it is some American way of saying that I have just been trodden all over

[e_i_pi]

1. as Oak said, the colour in West Ant is too similar to surrounding places. purple, green and blue right next to each other is bad. furthermore, mcmurdo and transantarctic right next to each other and you could think trans belongs with the Victoria land continent.

This is why Transantaric was changed to Trans.

[targetman377]

i really like this map i think it was well made and put together looking at it i have no improvments that would make the map better its great the way it is. good job

[TaCktiX]

I have no idea what this means. I assume it is some American way of saying that I have just been trodden all over

No, it's my unique way of saying I looked all over your map and made as many nitpicks as I could find.

[MrBenn]

Bumping the images to the last page...
[bigimg]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll71/e_i_pi/AntarcticaV85a.jpg[/bigimg][/quote]

[MrBenn]

From a gameplay perspective, the map mostly feels balanced; the primary task should be to work towards the troublesome Gameplay stamp

The borders between regions could be made a little bit clearer.
I'm not a fan of the black/white minimap/screens - I think some colour would help tie things together. You could still pixellate the images to make them look like they're on a CRT monitor though.
The South Pole demarcation isn't too bad... perhaps some sort of cross-hatching might draw attention to it a little more, and make it more obvious that there is a slightly different attack rule there.
A visual identifier for the fleets/ports (ie an explanatory note on a legend) might assist (never underestimate the stupidity of some players )

The graphics niggles are only niggles at this stage, and should be secondary to getting gameplay (including instructions etc) completely sorted.

[e_i_pi]

From a gameplay perspective, the map mostly feels balanced; the primary task should be to work towards the troublesome Gameplay stamp

The borders between regions could be made a little bit clearer.
I'm not a fan of the black/white minimap/screens - I think some colour would help tie things together. You could still pixellate the images to make them look like they're on a CRT monitor though.
The South Pole demarcation isn't too bad... perhaps some sort of cross-hatching might draw attention to it a little more, and make it more obvious that there is a slightly different attack rule there.
A visual identifier for the fleets/ports (ie an explanatory note on a legend) might assist (never underestimate the stupidity of some players )

The graphics niggles are only niggles at this stage, and should be secondary to getting gameplay (including instructions etc) completely sorted.

Understood Benn, but it got the gameplay stamp ages ago. All it needs now are graphics and XML.

Graphics have gone round in circles for the past 4-5 updates. Every time I post a version, someone complains about a certain graphic aspect, I change it, someone different complains about what I just changed. Do you remember the whole "colour" problem? Three months. Three months of changing shades and hues. Brightness = 60%... WAY too dark. Brightness = 62% WAY too light. I think the only reason people stopped complaining about the colours was because even they got sick of bringing it up time and time again.

I still don't see what the problem was with this version:



Sure, the port icons need to be displayed somewhere, I'm thinking get rid of the impassables and one-way attacks, since they're self explanatory. Mind you, the moment I ditch them someone will have a whinge. Really, it's pissing in the wind IMO. When you look at the problems with so many of the maps that have already been quenched, it makes you wonder why I'm copping so much flak. Let's have a look at some of the glaring problems with maps that have recently made it through:

Castle Lands - The NW continent is two different colours, neither of which corresponds to the legend. Walls are listed as impassable, but can they attack each other or the castle or vice versa? Who knows...
Indian Empire - 'Ahmed.' province isn't the full name of the province, I am copping flak over Transantarctic being shortened to 'Trans.', and Pine Island being abbreviated to 'Pine Is.' Why is it fine on one map, and not another?
WWI Ottoman Empire - Ottoman Europe = +2 bonus, and it -isn't- a coded neutral start? France + Italy (both neutral) = +2, Ottoman Europe (which can drop / be taken 1st round) = +2. Huh?
San Marino - The border between Fiorentino and Ca'Rigo is almost imperceptable. Is it even there, or is it blocked by mountains?

These are legitimate complaints to do with gameplay and visibility issues, yet the maps have passed through the Foundry unabated.

I honestly have limited time for this sort of thing now. Working on something for 3-4 hours, just to have some random come along and piss all over it in a few sentences, like what has happened in the past, simply doesn't do it for me. I've made so many concessions on the map, and the Foundry have made none. Your call guys... I've had enough of dealing with the fickle to-and-fro of people's opinions on the way it looks...