GEN.STONEHAM's love of immigrants

[oVo]

extracted from the "Native American" thread...

Today America is once again being flooded by illegal aliens, but this time from South of the border. So, the Hispanics will over-populate the WHITES, BLACKS and ASIANS and take control of the USA. We'll become part of Mexico and be herded into reservations.

Oh jeez STONEY... the history that repeats itself is more likely to be the greedy bastards with the financial clout to increase their wealth with no regard for the effect it has on the people around them. Immigration is certainly an issue, but it's going to happen and all people will have to adjust to the times they live in. There probably aren't enough Mexicans living in close proximity to you for you to realise what warm hearted people they are... or you haven't taken the personal initiative to introduce yourself and perhaps rely on the stereotypes you've heard to form an opinion about their nature.

Oh my, another poor bleeding heart.

I got news for you, I'm very informed about illegal aliens. I live in a town that's 40% Hispanic. The schools on my side of town our predominately Hispanic. Our County Jail which was built just last year is already overcrowded. ONE THIRD of the prisoners waiting for sentencing are ILLEGAL ALIENS!

Our schools are flooded with students, who's native language ain't ENGLISH. They receive welfare, food stamps and free meals at school. They have bilinqual education for their children at our schools. They don't need to assimilate, they live and work in Hispanic Ghettos.

They flood our hospitals and receive free healthcare at AMERICAN TAXPAYER EXPENSE. Their children form gangs and commit major crimes in our neighborhoods. They have become a burden on our Judicial System, Jails, hospitals, schools and welfare. They come and rent out homes, then they fill up the home with 2 to 3 generations of families and friends. They steal our identities, so they can work in our factories and other fields. This also includes working for peanuts with no benefits. This hurts the average AMERICAN WORKER.

Dial 1 for ENGLISH

Dial 2 for DEPORTATION

Nah... not a bleeding anything, but I figured to give you a place to spout off
instead of watching you derail the other thread.

btw... I said nothing about illegal aliens.

[captain.crazy]

extracted from the "Native American" thread...

Today America is once again being flooded by illegal aliens, but this time from South of the border. So, the Hispanics will over-populate the WHITES, BLACKS and ASIANS and take control of the USA. We'll become part of Mexico and be herded into reservations.

Oh jeez STONEY... the history that repeats itself is more likely to be the greedy bastards with the financial clout to increase their wealth with no regard for the effect it has on the people around them. Immigration is certainly an issue, but it's going to happen and all people will have to adjust to the times they live in. There probably aren't enough Mexicans living in close proximity to you for you to realise what warm hearted people they are... or you haven't taken the personal initiative to introduce yourself and perhaps rely on the stereotypes you've heard to form an opinion about their nature.

Oh my, another poor bleeding heart.

I got news for you, I'm very informed about illegal aliens. I live in a town that's 40% Hispanic. The schools on my side of town our predominately Hispanic. Our County Jail which was built just last year is already overcrowded. ONE THIRD of the prisoners waiting for sentencing are ILLEGAL ALIENS!

Our schools are flooded with students, who's native language ain't ENGLISH. They receive welfare, food stamps and free meals at school. They have bilinqual education for their children at our schools. They don't need to assimilate, they live and work in Hispanic Ghettos.

They flood our hospitals and receive free healthcare at AMERICAN TAXPAYER EXPENSE. Their children form gangs and commit major crimes in our neighborhoods. They have become a burden on our Judicial System, Jails, hospitals, schools and welfare. They come and rent out homes, then they fill up the home with 2 to 3 generations of families and friends. They steal our identities, so they can work in our factories and other fields. This also includes working for peanuts with no benefits. This hurts the average AMERICAN WORKER.

Dial 1 for ENGLISH

Dial 2 for DEPORTATION

Nah... not a bleeding anything, but I figured to give you a place to spout off
instead of watching you derail the other thread.

btw... I said nothing about illegal aliens.

We have some mexicans that live in the house that shares a border with our back yard. They have some wild parties over there... complete with drunk mexicans pissing in the streets and what not. They have a little son who plays with my sons. The sense of irony that I feel when I see their boy climbing over the fence to play in our yard makes me chuckle every time. He is a nice boy though, seriously over weight though.

[BoganGod]

I have often thought that Stoneham is an illegal immigrant...... Me thinks the lady doth protest to much..... A bit like a closet homosexual acting butch. Stoney takes the ain't migrant thing a bit to far suggesting he is not quite as american as he pretends. Of course I've been wrong in the past...

[MeDeFe]

extracted from the "Native American" thread...

Today America is once again being flooded by illegal aliens, but this time from South of the border. So, the Hispanics will over-populate the WHITES, BLACKS and ASIANS and take control of the USA. We'll become part of Mexico and be herded into reservations.

Oh jeez STONEY... the history that repeats itself is more likely to be the greedy bastards with the financial clout to increase their wealth with no regard for the effect it has on the people around them. Immigration is certainly an issue, but it's going to happen and all people will have to adjust to the times they live in. There probably aren't enough Mexicans living in close proximity to you for you to realise what warm hearted people they are... or you haven't taken the personal initiative to introduce yourself and perhaps rely on the stereotypes you've heard to form an opinion about their nature.

Oh my, another poor bleeding heart.

I got news for you, I'm very informed about illegal aliens. I live in a town that's 40% Hispanic. The schools on my side of town our predominately Hispanic. Our County Jail which was built just last year is already overcrowded. ONE THIRD of the prisoners waiting for sentencing are ILLEGAL ALIENS!

Our schools are flooded with students, who's native language ain't ENGLISH. They receive welfare, food stamps and free meals at school. They have bilinqual education for their children at our schools. They don't need to assimilate, they live and work in Hispanic Ghettos.

They flood our hospitals and receive free healthcare at AMERICAN TAXPAYER EXPENSE. Their children form gangs and commit major crimes in our neighborhoods. They have become a burden on our Judicial System, Jails, hospitals, schools and welfare. They come and rent out homes, then they fill up the home with 2 to 3 generations of families and friends. They steal our identities, so they can work in our factories and other fields. This also includes working for peanuts with no benefits. This hurts the average AMERICAN WORKER.

Dial 1 for ENGLISH

Dial 2 for DEPORTATION

Nah... not a bleeding anything, but I figured to give you a place to spout off
instead of watching you derail the other thread.

btw... I said nothing about illegal aliens.

We have some mexicans that live in the house that shares a border with our back yard. They have some wild parties over there... complete with drunk mexicans pissing in the streets and what not. They have a little son who plays with my sons. The sense of irony that I feel when I see their boy climbing over the fence to play in our yard makes me chuckle every time. He is a nice boy though, seriously over weight though.

Then the climbing will probably only do him some good.

[joecoolfrog]

Looks like Mexicans are simply taking back what they had before....seems fair enough!

[radiojake]

Looks like Mexicans are simply taking back what they had before....seems fair enough!

x2

[jbrettlip]

Looks like Mexicans are simply taking back what they had before....seems fair enough!

THey used to have free healthcare and welfare? Weird, I never knew that.

[xelabale]

Looks like Mexicans are simply taking back what they had before....seems fair enough!

THey used to have free healthcare and welfare? Weird, I never knew that.

American healthcare/welfare - the envy of the world...

[PLAYER57832]

The irony is that if businesses were not so eager to save a few dollars by hiring these folks, then there would not be the rush to come here.

Our country has a history of rejected and fighting against all sorts of immigrants when they first arrive. Then, before long, they are contributing and helping to build our nation. Why should Mexicans be any different? (seriously... so far, all I have heard is a bunch of anger).

[Snorri1234]

Looks like Mexicans are simply taking back what they had before....seems fair enough!

THey used to have free healthcare and welfare? Weird, I never knew that.

American healthcare/welfare - the envy of the world...

[joecoolfrog]

Looks like Mexicans are simply taking back what they had before....seems fair enough!

THey used to have free healthcare and welfare? Weird, I never knew that.

What with raking in a fortune from the Government it makes you wonder why they take all those shit jobs

[Krueger]

The irony is that if businesses were not so eager to save a few dollars by hiring these folks, then there would not be the rush to come here.

I agree with that.
They would not be here if there was no demand for them. So we need to put a system in place to tax the demand for these workers.
But I think that it would help if there were a seasonal work visa with taxes, fica, and all other taxes payed into the system.
I don't have a problem with immigration, just illegal immigration.

[jbrettlip]

The irony is that if businesses were not so eager to save a few dollars by hiring these folks, then there would not be the rush to come here.

I agree with that.
They would not be here if there was no demand for them. So we need to put a system in place to tax the demand for these workers.
But I think that it would help if there were a seasonal work visa with taxes, fica, and all other taxes payed into the system.
I don't have a problem with immigration, just illegal immigration.

Don't forget, have a baby in the US, and the kid is a citizen, mother automatically stays and the rest of the family can start immigrating to the US. So THAT is another draw for many, regardless of the jobs. That should be taken away.

[thegreekdog]

The irony is that if businesses were not so eager to save a few dollars by hiring these folks, then there would not be the rush to come here.

I agree with that.
They would not be here if there was no demand for them. So we need to put a system in place to tax the demand for these workers.
But I think that it would help if there were a seasonal work visa with taxes, fica, and all other taxes payed into the system.
I don't have a problem with immigration, just illegal immigration.

There is a tax system. For businesses, there are generally those that look the other way and those that don't. For those that look the other way, they will likely get caught, if they are big enough. For those that don't look the other way, a lot of times they are hiring illegal immigrants without knowing they are illegal. I worked at a legal tax clinic a few years ago and one of the poor bastards was a legal immigrant from Mexico who was receiving all sorts of notices from the IRS. Turns out there were five (FIVE!) other people using his social security number. This leads me to believe that illegal immigrants can make themselves look pretty damn legal.

In any event, I say come one, come all. Abolish all immigration standards!

[jbrettlip]

Looks like Mexicans are simply taking back what they had before....seems fair enough!

THey used to have free healthcare and welfare? Weird, I never knew that.

American healthcare/welfare - the envy of the world...

Yeah, our healthcare sucks. That is why so many Canadians, Mexicans and others from around the world come here for treatment.

And our poor are richer than most other countries poor. THey have cars, money, food, clothes, cell phones, clean water....please.

[Snorri1234]

Yeah, our healthcare sucks. That is why so many Canadians, Mexicans and others from around the world come here for treatment.

You know, I always hear this but the cases of this happening actually turn out to be so incredibly rare that it's ridiculous to even put it forth as an argument.

You can't argue that your system is good just because in incredibly rare situations people come over for a treatment.

And our poor are richer than most other countries poor. THey have cars, money, food, clothes, cell phones, clean water....please.

So? Being richer than a bunch of africans living in the slums of some town isn't much of an achievement.

[PLAYER57832]

The irony is that if businesses were not so eager to save a few dollars by hiring these folks, then there would not be the rush to come here.

I agree with that.
They would not be here if there was no demand for them. So we need to put a system in place to tax the demand for these workers.
But I think that it would help if there were a seasonal work visa with taxes, fica, and all other taxes payed into the system.
I don't have a problem with immigration, just illegal immigration.

There is a tax system. For businesses, there are generally those that look the other way and those that don't. For those that look the other way, they will likely get caught, if they are big enough. For those that don't look the other way, a lot of times they are hiring illegal immigrants without knowing they are illegal. I worked at a legal tax clinic a few years ago and one of the poor bastards was a legal immigrant from Mexico who was receiving all sorts of notices from the IRS. Turns out there were five (FIVE!) other people using his social security number. This leads me to believe that illegal immigrants can make themselves look pretty damn legal.

In any event, I say come one, come all. Abolish all immigration standards!

I am afraid this is one area where our taxes are too low.

If you want to hire someone who is not a citizen, then you are hiring someone who is not contributing as much as citizens to state services, etc and, yes, you should be taxed extra. However, I think simply forcing employers to pay a tax will just continue with the incentive to decieve. Instead, I would tax the employee, but have the employer deduct it as part of payroll taxes. AND, I would place far harsher penalties for those who don't pay those taxes through the payroll.

I would also allow agricultural workers to offer safe housing as an alternative to pay. Generally, this is already done, but I would formalize it, along with the standards of what constitutes safe housing.

Also, we need to offer true amnesty for some absolute victims -- women lured here for "waitress" jobs that turn out to be prostitution, for example. Also, people who might have been lured here for more legitimate jobs, but who find they are paid nothing, passports are taken, etc.

Kids -- are a difficult one. But I think we miss the boat when we seem them solely as a drain.

[PLAYER57832]

Yeah, our healthcare sucks. That is why so many Canadians, Mexicans and others from around the world come here for treatment.

You know, I always hear this but the cases of this happening actually turn out to be so incredibly rare that it's ridiculous to even put it forth as an argument.

You can't argue that your system is good just because in incredibly rare situations people come over for a treatment.

If you are on the extreme edges -- you need to see the one surgeon who can cure a rare cancer or perform an extremely complex surgery such as seperating conjoined twins or such, then sure. This is the place to be. BUT, you had best hope you have some nice sponsors, because most people here in the US don't have the millions (multiple millions) required to pay for the surgery and follow-up care.

In reality, many Americans are going to Asia to get treatments far cheaper than here. Interestingly, many US insurers are even willing to pay. Strange, that -- Insurance companies willing to save themselves money?

And our poor are richer than most other countries poor. THey have cars, money, food, clothes, cell phones, clean water....please.

So? Being richer than a bunch of africans living in the slums of some town isn't much of an achievement.[/quote]

And it is one thing to not have enough food, much clean water when that is the way everyone around you lives. It is something else when you and your family live in a tent here in the US, because even though you have a job, you cannot afford better.

[thegreekdog]

Wait, wait, wait... I can go to Asia to get treatment that is better than in the US and cheaper than in the US and my insurance will cover it?

On healthcare, I'll refer to a story about my brother, who went to England, got appendecitis, was treated like an animal until someone at the hospital figured out he was an American with insurance. After that, he got a private room and was treated right away. If I asked him, I would venture to say he'd rather be in the US getting healthcare than in England... but, hey, what do I know?

[PLAYER57832]

Wait, wait, wait... I can go to Asia to get treatment that is better than in the US and cheaper than in the US and my insurance will cover it?

Sometimes. Of coures, sometimes you cannot get insurance to cover anything.

On healthcare, I'll refer to a story about my brother, who went to England, got appendecitis, was treated like an animal until someone at the hospital figured out he was an American with insurance. After that, he got a private room and was treated right away. If I asked him, I would venture to say he'd rather be in the US getting healthcare than in England... but, hey, what do I know?

Correct, you cannot look at one experience and expect it to reveal the full truth. When you look at the overall system, we pay far more for our care and have an extremely unequal quality of care offered. Ironically, the perpetrators of this travesty are the insurance companies, but they are the one entity that Obama won't touch.

So, yes, we will get a government system. And, as usual, it will serve those who cannot get anything better, including all the insurance companies refuse to insure, while the insurance companies continue to get rich off the healthy majority.

Its pretty strange. They claim they don't want a government system because it will compete wiht their system. Seems to me that is what free market is all about!

I would have the government program cover a baseline MINIMUM .. including things like vaccinations and care for children, basic care for adults. BUT, I would also emphasize true preventative care (diet education for diabetics, excercise programs, etc.) ANd I would include eyeglasses & dental care. I don't know how it is that glasses I need to see are "optional" and going to the dentist --even more critical for me because of specific issues -- is also "optional".

Oh, and regarding government efficiency... did you know that the government, not the drug companies, developed some of the most profitable drugs on the market today and that the government is required, by law, to simply GIVE these things away. Examples include taxol, etc. Also, Walter Reed developed some of the most effective malaria treatments available (around the time of Vietnahm, because the drug companies were not interested in developing one for American soldiers dying of malaria), again, but gets no royalties or even credit.

In fact, those groups cannot even report to congress unles specifically invited. Meanwhile, drug company lobbyists have complete free access.

So, that's how our so-called "free market" actually works when it comes to health care.

[thegreekdog]

I would never defend the insurance companies. I've seen how they operate, and it's certainly not in the best interest of their customers (not that I will blame them... they exist to make money). Not to go completely off track relative to this thread, but as I've indicated in other threads, the current healthcare system in the US is not optimal, but I wouldn't say government-"controlled" healthcare would be optimal either.

[Snorri1234]

If you are on the extreme edges -- you need to see the one surgeon who can cure a rare cancer or perform an extremely complex surgery such as seperating conjoined twins or such, then sure. This is the place to be. BUT, you had best hope you have some nice sponsors, because most people here in the US don't have the millions (multiple millions) required to pay for the surgery and follow-up care.

Well yeah, the US bigger than Canada so it figures that the accomodations for really rare diseases are more likely to be there. And the canadian government pays for it because it's more profitable for them to capitalize on the resources that the US already has than to build their own stuff. It's the same as a small rural town capitalizing on the resources of a big city.

It doesn't say anything about the system being better though. When you have a population of 300 million rare diseases pop up more so it's logical to build stuff for that.

Fun article here. Doesn't have much to do with canadians crossing borders but whatever.

[obliterationX]

Looks like Mexicans are simply taking back what they had before....seems fair enough!

THey used to have free healthcare and welfare? Weird, I never knew that.

Nice communism.

The Americans are such hypocrites.

[Snorri1234]

Wait, wait, wait... I can go to Asia to get treatment that is better than in the US and cheaper than in the US and my insurance will cover it?

Yup. And it happens far more frequently than Canadians coming to the US.

On healthcare, I'll refer to a story about my brother, who went to England, got appendecitis, was treated like an animal until someone at the hospital figured out he was an American with insurance. After that, he got a private room and was treated right away. If I asked him, I would venture to say he'd rather be in the US getting healthcare than in England... but, hey, what do I know?

So anecdotical evidence?

Well all my personal anecdotical evidence is that I've never been treated bad or had to wait for a long time to get treated. (Except that one time i waited for about 2 hours but that was because I went to the ER with very low priority on a busy day.)

[oVo]

If you are an American of means, there are hospitals (that are nearly like spas) in India and Thailand who do reconstructive surgury etc. at 1/3 (or less) the cost in comparison to the US. The doctors are nearly all educated in the US and are extremely skilled at their specialties. Insurers will pay up for this as it saves them a lot of money... that they are obligated to pay anyway.

If you money in the bank and can afford healthcare in the United States it is amazing,
everyone else is SOL.