Monsters! - Battle for the Powerstones

[RjBeals]

This is my favorite map in at least a year. Nice work. Army circles look fine to me.

[Incandenza]

So, without plunging into the much longer gameplay post that I'm mentally drafting, I would say that the trick to this map will be ensuring several different avenues to victory, rather than a vulgar "dash to the powerstones".

[dolomite13]

So, without plunging into the much longer gameplay post that I'm mentally drafting, I would say that the trick to this map will be ensuring several different avenues to victory, rather than a vulgar "dash to the powerstones".

I agree...

Here are some of my thoughts and some ideas on what I might like to change...

Winning

We have 2 ways to win...

The first being grab the 8 stones. Which by the way the map is laid out could prove difficult as you need to work your way around the ring. So this would be no small feat.

The second being to take out all of your opponents forces including the wizards. And with the shields and the fact you need to control the corresponding special monster this could prove quite difficult.

Powers

Mind Blast: Attack any special monster in a range of 6 - The ability to skip to other special monsters from a powerstone helps you get forces behind an opponent. I believe this to be necessary with the ring shaped map to allow advancement. I believe this needs to reset to 3 every turn it is controlled so it can't be abused every turn. Or at least can't easily be abused.

Lightening Bolt: Bombard any monster in a range of 3 - I am not sure however that the bombard from a powerstone is useful or necessary. It may be better to come up with a powerstone power that can deal with a wizard or his shield from a distance.

Possible Power Ideas

IDEA #1 - Lightening Bolt: Bombard any monster in a range of 3 ... currently how lightening bolt works.
IDEA #2 - Lightening Bolt: Bombard any wizards shield ... how lightening bolt used to work.
IDEA #3 - Dark Surge: Bombard any powerstone ... proposed by Incandenza.
IDEA #4 - Synergy: +1 bonus for each special monster you control.
IDEA #5 - Energy Boost: +2 bonus (starts with 10 neutral).

Combined Powers

I also think combining some powers might be possible ... like

- Mind Blast: Attack any special monster in a range of 6 and bombard all other special monsters. Resets to 3 every turn when controlled.
- Dark Surge: Bombard any powerstone or wizard shield.
- Synergy: +1 bonus for each special monster or powerstone you control.

Powerstone Neutrals

I do know that I would like the powerstones to start off hard to conquer with 10 neutrals. There was a suggestion to make them -1 per turn. This would make them harder to hold as you would have to reinforce them. And make them easier to conquer over time. I assume that neutral forces are effected by the -1 as well as player forces and it would go from 10 to 9 to 8 etc... ending with 1n at some point.

Thats all I have time for right now... please offer any feedback on what I have proposed above as possible ideas.

Thanx

--D

[dolomite13]

I started on some basic xml today just to get used to constructing the xml for the map, and my 10 years of using xml in my job have made it quite easy to understand how the xml works so it is coming along nicely. I will post some xml for peopel to check out as well as some maps with blank unit circles so we can see how things will look a bit.

--D

[dolomite13]

While working on the XML i realized I haven't presented an up to date version on the starting forces. Here is that image.

White = Neutral
Red = Starting Positions

Things to remember.
- Wizards autodeploy 3.
- Shields reset to 15 when controlled.
- Powers reset to 3 when controlled.
- Powerstones loose 1 per round.
- Standard reinforcements disabled.
+1 bonus for every 3 monsters (max 16)
+2 bonus for each special monster.
+3 bonus for each powerstone.
+2 bonus for each powerstone beyond the first (max 14).
- Win by controlling all 8 powerstones.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3416/352 ... 12bf_o.png

[dolomite13]

Something to ponder...

Should the wizards be the only starting positions? I am beginning to think that expansion from the single location of the wizards out to the ring is too linear. I am considering adding 8 basic monsters to the starting locations.

I have marked these monsters in red.

Any Thoughts?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3615/352 ... 9b9e_o.png





--D

[dolomite13]

I will be going out of town for a week starting this Friday (the 5/15). Before I do that I will have large and small maps without the units on them as well as a couple versions of the xml for people to check out in the connection viewer.

I am still thinking about how I want the two powerstone powers to work but I am leaning towards this.

- Mind Blast: Attack any special monster in a range of 6 and bombard all other special monsters. Resets to 3 every turn when controlled.

This lets you attack 3 different special monsters from a given powerstone and helps cross map travel. It also lets you deny special monster bonuses across the map to the other 5 special monsters. Resets to 3 every turn when controlled.

- Lightning Bolt: Bombard any powerstone or wizard shield in a range of 8.

This lets you bombard one powerstone in either direction as well as 3 different wizards shields. This should help make it difficult to keep a powerstone as well as help to eliminate a wizards shield out of range of the wizards direct power (the special monster linked by rune).

The xml will be as follows.

1) will be standard with 8 start locations (the wizards)
2) will be 16 start locations, 8 on the wizards and 8 on basic monsters as shown on this map.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3615/352 ... 9b9e_o.png


--D

[dolomite13]

You are all probably getting sick of my posts, but I am excited to working on this map and really hope we are moving towards a new and fun gameplay experience.

I finished some XML work, and mind you it the coordinates of the armies aren't perfect yet, I have a lot of tweaking to do. I looked at the xml and maps in the XML Tool and Map reader and thing look prety good although there are a few issues, such as 3 digit army amounts overflowing the right map edge on powers.

XML Tool - http://www.conquerclub.com/mapmaker/index.php
Map Reader - http://www.multiblah.com/cc_tester/

XML 1 (8 start positions)
http://www.bigottergames.com/downloads/monsters.xml

Starting Forces / Connections Map (XML 1)



http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2434/352 ... 5031_o.png

XML 2 (16 start positions, 8 wizards, 8 monsters)
http://www.bigottergames.com/downloads/monsters2.xml

Starting Forces / Connections Map (XML 2)



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3237/352 ... 8bd5_o.png

Small Map
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2452/352 ... 730f_o.png

Large Map
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2421/352 ... 8d8a_o.png

[AndyDufresne]

The names on the small map, and really most of the text, are nearly too difficult to read without straining, zooming, or putting your eyeball next to the screen. Any chance on some resizing?


--Andy

[dolomite13]

The names on the small map, and really most of the text, are nearly too difficult to read without straining, zooming, or putting your eyeball next to the screen. Any chance on some resizing?

--Andy

Yep...

I will be working on the readability of the map next, after seeing how the small map text re sized I realized I need to play around with it a bit to make it readable. That and tweaking the army positions for the XML are the two top priorities I have with this map at the moment.

I may be able to get that hammered out before I leave for vacation. I won't have a laptop capable of running photoshop for that week.

=)

--D

[dolomite13]

I cleaned up the small map and then did a little cleaning of the text on the large map to make them both readable without making you blind from squinting.

I am going on vacation for a week and will have limited access to a computer so I will try and check in but cant promise.

Small Map

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2286/353 ... 296e_o.png



Large Map

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3659/353 ... e9f2_o.png

[bigimg]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3659/3531729524_54dd40e9f2_o.png[/bigimg]

--D

[dolomite13]

I already saw the Aatack typo in the Mind Blast power description that I will fix next update.

--D


.

[dolomite13]

Here are links to images of the small and large maps with 88's and 888's on them as the XML currently sits. As you can see I have some tweaks to make to it.

--D

Small

88 - http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3416/353 ... ac59_o.png
888 - http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2193/353 ... 46c2_o.png

Large

88 - http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3601/353 ... b00c_o.png
888 - http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2120/353 ... f3d0_o.png


.

[dolomite13]

I believe I got the xml right to do the following. If it looks off please let me know.

XML 1 (8 start positions)

This code should deploy 1 wizard to each of 8 starting positions. The inclusion of the neutral tag in the wizards code should only deploy 1 wizard to each player. Even in games like 1 v 1 they should only get 1 wizard each.

Code: Select all

<!-- Starting positions -->

<positions>
   <position>
      <territory>Rayden</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Brago</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Yesha</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Sythe</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Grath</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Olan</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Purlin</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Cryma</territory>
   </position>
</positions>

<!-- Wizards -->

<territory>
   <name>Rayden</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Rog</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>206</smallx>
   <smally>288</smally>
   <largex>276</largex>
   <largey>376</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Brago</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Bek</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
    <smallx>252</smallx>
   <smally>340</smally>
   <largex>337</largex>
   <largey>446</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Yesha</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Yub</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>208</smallx>
   <smally>399</smally>
   <largex>278</largex>
   <largey>525</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Sythe</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Sed</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>325</smallx>
   <smally>306</smally>
   <largex>434</largex>
   <largey>400</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Grath</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Gak</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>350</smallx>
   <smally>377</smally>
   <largex>468</largex>
   <largey>495</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Olan</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Ora</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>286</smallx>
   <smally>405</smally>
   <largex>383</largex>
   <largey>532</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Purlin</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Pox</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>397</smallx>
   <smally>297</smally>
   <largex>531</largex>
   <largey>389</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Cryma</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Cof</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>412</smallx>
   <smally>399</smally>
   <largex>551</largex>
   <largey>524</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

http://www.bigottergames.com/downloads/monsters.xml


XML 2 (16 start positions, 8 wizards, 8 monsters)

This code should deploy 1 wizard and 1 corresponding monster to each of 8 starting positions. The inclusion of the neutral tag in the wizards and starting monsters code should only deploy 1 wizard and 1 monster to each player. Even in games like 1 v 1 they should only get 1 wizard and 1 monster each.

Code: Select all

<!-- Starting positions -->

<positions>
   <position>
      <territory>Rayden</territory>
      <territory start="3">Luz</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Brago</territory>
      <territory start="3">Hoz</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Yesha</territory>
      <territory start="3">Faw</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Sythe</territory>
      <territory start="3">Mim</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Grath</territory>
      <territory start="3">Von</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Olan</territory>
      <territory start="3">Deg</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Purlin</territory>
      <territory start="3">Qix</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Cryma</territory>
      <territory start="3">Boz</territory>
   </position>
</positions>

<!-- Wizards -->

<territory>
   <name>Rayden</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Rog</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>206</smallx>
   <smally>288</smally>
   <largex>276</largex>
   <largey>376</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Brago</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Bek</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
    <smallx>252</smallx>
   <smally>340</smally>
   <largex>337</largex>
   <largey>446</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Yesha</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Yub</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>208</smallx>
   <smally>399</smally>
   <largex>278</largex>
   <largey>525</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Sythe</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Sed</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>325</smallx>
   <smally>306</smally>
   <largex>434</largex>
   <largey>400</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Grath</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Gak</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>350</smallx>
   <smally>377</smally>
   <largex>468</largex>
   <largey>495</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Olan</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Ora</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>286</smallx>
   <smally>405</smally>
   <largex>383</largex>
   <largey>532</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Purlin</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Pox</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>397</smallx>
   <smally>297</smally>
   <largex>531</largex>
   <largey>389</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Cryma</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Cof</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
   <smallx>412</smallx>
   <smally>399</smally>
   <largex>551</largex>
   <largey>524</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>   
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>

<!-- Mind Controlled Basic Monsters -->

<territory>
   <name>Boz</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Aox</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>203</smallx>
      <smally>201</smally>
      <largex>272</largex>
      <largey>261</largey> 
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>3</neutral>   
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Deg</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Dob</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>292</smallx>
      <smally>244</smally>
      <largex>391</largex>
      <largey>318</largey> 
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>3</neutral>   
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Faw</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Evo</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>541</smallx>
      <smally>118</smally>
      <largex>722</largex>
      <largey>150</largey> 
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>3</neutral>   
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Hoz</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Heb</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>455</smallx>
      <smally>261</smally>
      <largex>608</largex>
      <largey>341</largey> 
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>3</neutral>   
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Luz</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Lax</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
       <smallx>469</smallx>
      <smally>536</smally>
      <largex>627</largex>
      <largey>707</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>3</neutral>   
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Mim</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Maz</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>225</smallx>
      <smally>468</smally>
      <largex>301</largex>
      <largey>617</largey> 
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>3</neutral>   
</territory>

<territory>
   <name>Qix</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Que</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>58</smallx>
      <smally>464</smally>
      <largex>78</largex>
      <largey>611</largey> 
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>3</neutral>   
</territory>
      
<territory>
   <name>Von</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Vad</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>62</smallx>
      <smally>255</smally>
      <largex>84</largex>
      <largey>332</largey> 
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>3</neutral>   
</territory>   

http://www.bigottergames.com/downloads/monsters2.xml

[dolomite13]

I am really enjoying my vacation and think I missed only a single turn, thank god the local library has wi-fi =)

[dolomite13]

Well I have returned from vacation and can start working in the map again.

Here is the plan.

1) I need to tweak the xml to get the numbers to appear in the correct locations on the maps.

2) We need to discuss which starting positions would be best with this map. 1 or 2.

3) Powerstone powers need to be discussed.

4) starting neutral forces need to be discussed.

5) bonuses need to be discussed.

Feel free to discuss any of the above discussion topics now however I will most likely post a poll about each as well.

--D


=== Poll Results ===========================

Q1: The "88's" look ok.
Yes 5
No 2

Q2: The "888's" look ok.
Yes 4
No 2

Q3: Which font basic monsters look best.
White 4
Black 1

Q4: Which runes look best.
Fancy 4
Simple 1

.

[dolomite13]

OK here are the new POLL questions.

1) Do the starting forces on the following image look good?

Starting Forces
- Powerstones start with 10 neutral.
- Shields start with 15 neutral.
- All monsters start with 1-3 neutral (see starting forces map).
- Wizards start with 1.
- Power "Mind Blast" starts with 3 neutral.
- Power "Lightning Bolt" starts with 3 neutral.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3620/356 ... d5b6_o.png

2) Should the starting locations be limited to one per player or two?

1 starting location
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3620/356 ... d5b6_o.png

2 starting locations
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2454/356 ... 8a9c_o.png

3) Do the following powerstone powers look good?

- Mind Blast: Attack any special monster in a range of 6 and bombard all other special monsters. Resets to 3 every turn when controlled.

- Lightning Bolt: Bombard any powerstone or wizard shield in a range of 8.

4) Do the following bonuses look good?

Bonus Forces
+1 for every 3 monsters.
+2 for each special monster.
+3 for each powerstone.
+2 for each additional powerstone.

Deployment
- Wizards autodeploy 3 to each turn.
- Shields reset to 15 when controlled.
- Powers reset to 3 when controlled.

[dolomite13]

Sorry the poll hasn't yet been wiped for me I will post it when I hear from an admin that it is ready. You may discuss the 4 questions above openly...

Thanx

--D

Q1) Starting forces look good.
Q1) Starting forces don't look right (see my post)
Q2) I prefer 1 starting location.
Q2) I prefer 2 starting locations.
Q3) Powerstone powers look good.
Q3) Powerstione powers don't look right (see my post)
Q4) Bonuses look good.
Q4) Bonuses don't look right (see my post)

[MrBenn]

In future, you need to get a moderator to remove the old poll and post the results for you before starting a new one

[dolomite13]

In future, you need to get a moderator to remove the old poll and post the results for you before starting a new one

I know, I reported it and got a report the ticket was closed but it wasn't actually removed. Probably because I accidentally selected "flame war" as the ticket type by accident. Thanx for fixing it for me =)

[dolomite13]

I finally have some free time to work on the map and I am going to be tweaking the XML forces locations this afternoon =)

[dolomite13]

A surprise visit from family delayed my work on this over the weekend. I have evenings free for the next several days and tweaking XML is rather tedious. I will have an update this week for that tho.

I would love it if there were any feedback that anyone has as to the starting map positions. I am leaning towards 2 starting locations per player.

--D

[LED ZEPPELINER]

you do not have to post every time you run into delay

[dolomite13]

See next post ... topic moved


--D

[dolomite13]

I really want to shore up Gameplay and XML on this map so here is the gameplay I will be going with as the basis for the next XML update.

Feel free to offer up feedback.

1) Starting forces will be as follows

Starting Forces
- Powerstones start with 10 neutral.
- Shields start with 15 neutral.
- All monsters start with 1-3 neutral (see starting forces map).
- Wizards start with 1.
- Power "Mind Blast" starts with 3 neutral.
- Power "Lightning Bolt" starts with 3 neutral.



2) Starting forces be deployed as follows.

Starting locations on wizards only.

2 player game - 4 wizards each.
3 player game - 2 wizards each 2 neutral wizards.
4 player game - 2 wizards each.
5 player game - 1 wizard each 3 neutral wizards.
6 player game - 1 wizard each 2 neutral wizards.
7 player game - 1 wizard each 1 neutral wizards.
8 player game - 1 wizard each.



3) Powerstone Powers will be as follows.

- Mind Blast: Attack any special monster in a range of 6 and bombard all other special monsters. Resets to 3 every turn when controlled.

- Lightning Bolt: Bombard any powerstone or wizard shield in a range of 8.

4) Bonuses will be as follows.

Bonus Forces
No standard (+3 bonus)
+1 for every 3 monsters (48 monsters = +16)
+2 for each special monster (8 monsters = +16).
+3 for each powerstone.
+2 for each additional powerstone.
+? for each wizard (see poll)

1 Powerstone = +3
2 Powerstones = +3 +3 +2 (+8)
3 Powerstones = +3 +3 +3 +2 +2 (+13)
4 Powerstones = +3 +3 +3 +3 +2 +2 + 2 (+18)
5 Powerstones = +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +2 +2 +2 +2 (+23)
6 Powerstones = +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 (+28)
7 Powerstones = +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +3 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 (+33)
8 Powerstones = Victory

Deployment
- Wizards autodeploy 3 to each turn.
- Shields reset to 15 when controlled.
- Powers reset to 3 when controlled.

Here is a link to the XML and Maps as described in the text above.

Map Maker - http://www.conquerclub.com/mapmaker/index.php

XML - http://www.bigottergames.com/downloads/monsters3.xml

Small - http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2286/353 ... 296e_o.png

Large - http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3659/353 ... e9f2_o.png



--D