Dogs, Wolves, and Sheep

[Neoteny]

I'm not particularly saying he was. But I think he fits into my category of well-meaning people who cause too much harm to be considered a dog in the analogy.

Finding WMDs is a bit of a misnomer when you consider Saddam had a history of gassing people... the real question is if he was a threat to US security. While he may have been, I'm not in a position to decide, I don't think you have to be a top-ranking CIA official to note that there are probably bigger threats.

I don't doubt Bush had good intentions, but I don't think the means have yet been justified. I'm hopeful, but he's sabotaged nearly every effort to win any credibility.

[Snorri1234]

George Bush was not a wolf in respect to the Iraq war. Saddam Hussein was a tyrant and a threat to world stability. We went in to find weapons of mass destruction and they were found.

No they weren't.

Old, inert weapons were found which couldn't be used and were probably just buried and forgotten, and a little raw material was also found. Most experts now agree that Saddam made no intent to start a nuclear program and was not a threat.

[jonesthecurl]

Most women, in my experience, are sheep.

It seems that at least half of men are as well.

Gabon, keep your sexual experiences to yourself.
We have no need to know that most of your women have been sheep.

[mandyb]

Most women, in my experience, are sheep.

It seems that at least half of men are as well.

Gabon, keep your sexual experiences to yourself.
We have no need to know that most of your women have been sheep.

Oh I dunno, that kind of thing says a lot about a person.
I, for one, prefer to stay well informed.

And to stay on topic, I refuse to be a sheep and if anyone calls me a dog, they get a cyber-clout across the lug-hole.

[strike wolf]

This analogy of dogs, wolves and sheep is still flawed and until someone can say something that actually refutes what has been given to show htat it is wrong from previous pages. I won't even consider it.

[jonesthecurl]

It's the biggest pack of lies I've ever herd, there's not a kennel of truth in it.

[PLAYER57832]

Most women, in my experience, are sheep.

It seems that at least half of men are as well.

The key words there are "in your experience".

Also... there is an old saying about Men and power and women and power.. but if you haven't heard it ... leave it to someone else to educate you. (as in, your future wife)

[b.k. barunt]

Gabon, although i would be considered conservative in my views on warfare and guns by most of the people on this forum, i would not want to in any way be looked at as being in agreement with you. People like you give those of us who believe in the 2nd Amendment a bad name. Even former Bush supporters are admitting now that he lied about the WMDs in Iraq, and ignored intelligence reports to the contrary, yet you tell us that they actually "found" some. Amazing.

As to the subject of this thread, there is a fourth animal that you conveniently omitted, seeing that you are one. Can you guess which animal that is? Here's a clue:

HEEHAWWWWWW!


Honibaz

[jonesthecurl]

What about fleas?

[InkL0sed]

I thought people were either dogs or cats?

[jonesthecurl]

There's two sorts of people.
Those who divide people into two sorts and those who don't.

[InkL0sed]

There are 10 kinds of people. Those who know binary and those who don't.

[Dancing Mustard]

What about the people who are capable of defending themselves against dogs but not against wolves? They're not strictly sheep, but they aren't wolves or dogs either. I vote that we should call them foxes and recognise them as a working part of this, highly researched and very well evidenced, model of society.

[mandyb]

What about the people who are capable of defending themselves against dogs but not against wolves? They're not strictly sheep, but they aren't wolves or dogs either. I vote that we should call them foxes and recognise them as a working part of this, highly researched and very well evidenced, model of society.

I like badgers, is there any way you could work them into the equation?

Also some kind of insect would be good, like a cockroach, say.

[Iliad]

What about the people who are capable of defending themselves against dogs but not against wolves? They're not strictly sheep, but they aren't wolves or dogs either. I vote that we should call them foxes and recognise them as a working part of this, highly researched and very well evidenced, model of society.

I like badgers, is there any way you could work them into the equation?

Also some kind of insect would be good, like a cockroach, say.

Those who don't care about anyone else, but are impossible to get rid off

[Dancing Mustard]

No, I think that cockroaches are people who resemble sheep in their defencelessness, but who are indifferent to the predations of wolves because they know that they can survive nuclear holocausts, being hit by shoes, and (for a lengthy but limited period) decapitation.

i.e. If you look like a sheep, but wolves can't actually f*ck you up all that badly, and you are therefore ambivalent to the predations of the aforementioned wolves, then you're a cockroach.

[jonesthecurl]

And let's not forget the farmer.
And the old aunty who knits the wool from the sheep into a sweater of a size and shape which would probably fit the wolves better than you.

[MeDeFe]

I just thought of something, how do jellyfish fit into this model?

[jonesthecurl]

They don't wear sweaters.

[MeDeFe]

And wool floats on water, at least to some extent.

[Juan_Bottom]

And wool floats on water, at least to some extent.

But it doesn't breath well.


As a person named JUAN I think I need to be the one to take offense to this model. And force affirmative action. At no point have you included any African or Asian animals.

Well?

[jonesthecurl]

S'O.K.
Some of the sheep are black.

[GabonX]

I'm not particularly saying he was. But I think he fits into my category of well-meaning people who cause too much harm to be considered a dog in the analogy.

Finding WMDs is a bit of a misnomer when you consider Saddam had a history of gassing people... the real question is if he was a threat to US security. While he may have been, I'm not in a position to decide, I don't think you have to be a top-ranking CIA official to note that there are probably bigger threats.

I don't doubt Bush had good intentions, but I don't think the means have yet been justified. I'm hopeful, but he's sabotaged nearly every effort to win any credibility.

Niether of our last two presidents were elected due to merrit. Bush was a failed president, but as near as I can see, not such a bad guy.

George Bush was not a wolf in respect to the Iraq war. Saddam Hussein was a tyrant and a threat to world stability. We went in to find weapons of mass destruction and they were found.

No they weren't.

Old, inert weapons were found which couldn't be used and were probably just buried and forgotten, and a little raw material was also found. Most experts now agree that Saddam made no intent to start a nuclear program and was not a threat.

He did have more than a year to hide whatever weapons programs he may have had. One of the weaknesses of democracy in regards to the military is that things take too long.

The claims that he did not have any contraband weapons ignore three facts, the first that we found them, the second that he had hundreds of tons of nuclear material which could be used to make a bomb, and the third that he had plenty of time to hide whatever additionsl weapons and programs he may have had.

Most women, in my experience, are sheep.

It seems that at least half of men are as well.

The key words there are "in your experience".

Also... there is an old saying about Men and power and women and power.. but if you haven't heard it ... leave it to someone else to educate you. (as in, your future wife)

Marriage is broken. More than half end in divorce and we can't even seem to agree on what the definition should be.

Honestly, I don't see how marriage benefits a man in modern society unless it's his only way to secure sexual gratification.

It probably is for some, but I don't have the overwhelming urge to give a woman claim to take atleast half of the results of my labor and then to continue to demand some sort of alimony living payment.

This analogy of dogs, wolves and sheep is still flawed and until someone can say something that actually refutes what has been given to show htat it is wrong from previous pages. I won't even consider it.

While the analogy is imperfect, as any such analogy would be, the great majority of people fall into one of these three groups.

There is yet to be a real demonstration of how the analogy is flawed. Rather, it seems that the responses demonstrate how much sheep seem to hate dogs and not understand that there are wolves in the world. This was in the orriginal post.

It's very simple. There are people who do not realize that there are real threats in the world or realize that they exist but are not in favor of not doing anything about it. There are people who realize there is a problem and are in favor of allowing someone to fix it, or are willing to fix it themselves. Finally, there are people who empower themselves primarily by doing things which directly harm others.

The best counter argument here is that the description is too simplistic, but there hasn't really been a demonstration that shows this to be the case. Rather the response is too simplistic in itself.

If you want to have a real conversation about this, and your position is that it is flawed, show me one public figure alive today or from any point in history which you believe does not fall into one of these categories. I'm not going to claim that none exist, but I frankly cannot think of any.

[Juan_Bottom]

Honestly, I don't see how marriage benefits a man in modern society unless it's his only way to secure sexual gratification.

I said this to my (now ex) girlfriend all the time. It pushed her away without me knowing it... Carefull where you say that. Eventually, the idea of marrage will seem better than the idea of dying alone with a bottle in your hand. Eventually.

[Neoteny]

God, I hate biting at the bait...

Firstly, "sheep" don't hate "dogs." As a "sheep" (by default because I think guns aren't the most awesomest invention ever) who was raised by "dogs" (my father was career Army, and my mother served several years; my girlfriend's father is currently in Iraq; I've lived on military bases around the world) I recognize the importance of having a protective force. If there were a conflict based on the need for protection that required my service, I would do so. Does that make me a dog? Does it make me even a sheep? No.

We may not have effectively demonstrated that the analogy is too simplistic, but you have not demonstrated that it is complex enough. Quid pro quo, friend.

Let's see...

Harry Truman. Essentially ended a world war via the senseless total destruction of two cities and hundreds of thousands of people. Dog or wolf?

Paul Jennings Hill. Killed an abortionist to "save" unborn children. Dog or wolf?

Jefferson Davis. Led his nation in resistance to an invasive force. Dog or wolf?

Even if you come to an excessively well-thought out conclusion, know that there are many people who have done the same, and come to a different conclusion. Does that not say something about the failing of the analogy?

Edward Jenner. Infected people with smallpox to test his vaccine. Dog or wolf? (Or sheep, because he was university educated?)

Honestly, I don't see how marriage benefits a man in modern society unless it's his only way to secure sexual gratification.

I said this to my (now ex) girlfriend all the time. It pushed her away without me knowing it... Carefull where you say that. Eventually, the idea of marrage will seem better than the idea of dying alone with a bottle in your hand. Eventually.

If you aren't dead by then, you're doing something wrong.