Are you for or against the 700 billion Bail out?

[DaGip]

This bailout is not only a waste of cash, but it was passed using an illegal tactic--- bribery. They stuck at least 110 billion dollars in pork in that bill just to appeal to various people so that they could not vote no. To make things worse, there was not even a specific reason for why the number 700 billion dollars was even set---they just wanted a "big number". I could not be more against the bailout.

I would like to point out to all the John McCain supporters that "the Maverick" has been running this campaign PREACHING about pork barrel spending and that when he becomes president the pork will stop and everyone will "know their names"...then the SON OF A FUCKING BITCH votes FOR the FUCKING bail out bill that is LOADED WITH PORK!

I really can't stand that guy now!

[Napoleon Ier]

This bailout is not only a waste of cash, but it was passed using an illegal tactic--- bribery. They stuck at least 110 billion dollars in pork in that bill just to appeal to various people so that they could not vote no. To make things worse, there was not even a specific reason for why the number 700 billion dollars was even set---they just wanted a "big number". I could not be more against the bailout.

I would like to point out to all the John McCain supporters that "the Maverick" has been running this campaign PREACHING about pork barrel spending and that when he becomes president the pork will stop and everyone will "know their names"...then the SON OF A FUCKING BITCH votes FOR the FUCKING bail out bill that is LOADED WITH PORK!

I really can't stand that guy now!

Yeah but think. If he hadn't supported it, he'd probably have lost by all the electoral votes possible minus Alabama.

[targetman377]

Just George Bush's final allowance of the corporations eating at the public tax dollar trough

blame bush. right to bad the next presdent elect is puting forward another bailout when he gets in office. but of course when he does it will work and everone will be happy he did it. I HAVE A FUCKEN IDEA STOP BLAMING BUSH.

P.S i do not love Bush but i hate people who all the FUCKEN DO IS BLAME FUCKEN BUSH. sorrry i got bord of it when people said that when you build a city UNDER SEA leavle and you get a FUCKEN HURRICAN IT FLOODS!!!! man i mean what are people thinking honestly. sorry but BUSH dose not control the FUCKEN weather.

P.S.S sorry my angry over these dumb people is boiling over sorry.

[targetman377]

P.s.s.s the bail out sucks

[brooksieb]

This bailout is not only a waste of cash, but it was passed using an illegal tactic--- bribery. They stuck at least 110 billion dollars in pork in that bill just to appeal to various people so that they could not vote no. To make things worse, there was not even a specific reason for why the number 700 billion dollars was even set---they just wanted a "big number". I could not be more against the bailout.

I would like to point out to all the John McCain supporters that "the Maverick" has been running this campaign PREACHING about pork barrel spending and that when he becomes president the pork will stop and everyone will "know their names"...then the SON OF A FUCKING BITCH votes FOR the FUCKING bail out bill that is LOADED WITH PORK!

I really can't stand that guy now!

Yeah but think. If he hadn't supported it, he'd probably have lost by all the electoral votes possible minus Alabama.

Hey nappy great to see you again.

[Fruitcake]

Although great in theory, the practice will turn out to be somewhat direr I am afraid.

First up, 700 billion (or even 850 billion) is nowhere near enough to actually have more than a transient effect. The big bad m'fucker called Cash Crisis will come knocking again within 12-24 months, and this time it will be 'no more Mr nice guy'.

So here's a great wheeze. The Governments pour cash they have taken off the taxpayers into the banks. However, the cash they are pouring into the banks, economies (through massive Public works programs) and anything else they can think of far exceeds what the taxpayer has actually given them. So what do they do? And here is the truly sweet part....they issue Bonds in the markets. Now as these Bonds are Sovereign State Bonds so are about as copper bottomed as you can get. However, the taxpayer now has little liquidity to buy into these Bonds because his money is now being chased around the block by the banks, the Govts. and any one else who is owed money on this great merry go round. So what then happens? Weeellll the underwriters take up the slack and buy the Bonds. Now who are the underwriters…ahhh…yes, you’re getting it….those very banks to which the Govt gave the cash in the first place. So now we have a merry go round within a merry go round. This time, the Govt. lends to the Banks who lend to the Govt. The Govt then invests those loans to create cash flow. All looks good so far as it primes the pumps. The problem is, it doesn’t actually deal with the core issue, and that is one of pain.

Pain is good; pain clears the mind of rubbish and focuses it. The Governments now are doing their best to avoid pain because they don’t want to be the wankers who are seen as allowing this all to happen, so best to keep the great unwashed sweet and docile by pouring cash at them. The problem is and will always be, there is a finite point, not too far in the distance when even this cash will start to dry up. (Look at the total USA GDP compared to the puny 850 billion). As the GDP contracts as it is doing at an alarming rate across the developed world, the costs to Govts. increase exponentially. The circle tightens and before you know it, the loans they require to just keep paying the interest are more than the taxpayer can afford. At this point the World Bank is wheeled in; it follows up and pours cash into those Govts. until that is used up. Then what? We have pain, that’s what. Taxes will rise, Public Works will dry up and we will hit a full blown crisis.

Good luck!

[Napoleon Ier]

Although great in theory, the practice will turn out to be somewhat direr I am afraid.

First up, 700 billion (or even 850 billion) is nowhere near enough to actually have more than a transient effect. The big bad m'fucker called Cash Crisis will come knocking again within 12-24 months, and this time it will be 'no more Mr nice guy'.

So here's a great wheeze. The Governments pour cash they have taken off the taxpayers into the banks. However, the cash they are pouring into the banks, economies (through massive Public works programs) and anything else they can think of far exceeds what the taxpayer has actually given them. So what do they do? And here is the truly sweet part....they issue Bonds in the markets. Now as these Bonds are Sovereign State Bonds so are about as copper bottomed as you can get. However, the taxpayer now has little liquidity to buy into these Bonds because his money is now being chased around the block by the banks, the Govts. and any one else who is owed money on this great merry go round. So what then happens? Weeellll the underwriters take up the slack and buy the Bonds. Now who are the underwriters…ahhh…yes, you’re getting it….those very banks to which the Govt gave the cash in the first place. So now we have a merry go round within a merry go round. This time, the Govt. lends to the Banks who lend to the Govt. The Govt then invests those loans to create cash flow. All looks good so far as it primes the pumps. The problem is, it doesn’t actually deal with the core issue, and that is one of pain.

Pain is good; pain clears the mind of rubbish and focuses it. The Governments now are doing their best to avoid pain because they don’t want to be the wankers who are seen as allowing this all to happen, so best to keep the great unwashed sweet and docile by pouring cash at them. The problem is and will always be, there is a finite point, not too far in the distance when even this cash will start to dry up. (Look at the total USA GDP compared to the puny 850 billion). As the GDP contracts as it is doing at an alarming rate across the developed world, the costs to Govts. increase exponentially. The circle tightens and before you know it, the loans they require to just keep paying the interest are more than the taxpayer can afford. At this point the World Bank is wheeled in; it follows up and pours cash into those Govts. until that is used up. Then what? We have pain, that’s what. Taxes will rise, Public Works will dry up and we will hit a full blown crisis.

Good luck!

We can use inflation as a panacea which will adjust the monetary shock and inject liquidity into the banking system, surely?

[Fruitcake]

We can use inflation as a panacea which will adjust the monetary shock and inject liquidity into the banking system, surely?

Indeed it it so. However, inflation brings its own set of problems. Those problems can sit inside the system for now, but at some point they will come to the surface and then we have pain again. In the UK back in the 1970s we were a busted flush, we had to borrow from the IMF to stay afloat as a country and those of us of a certain age will recall the 3 day working week, the rampant inflation, when pay rises were negotiated as monthly increments (threshold payments as they were known) the real lack of self respect and the general unwinding of so many things including the stock market which dropped to 70 yes 70 points! All this had happened because successive Govts in power had plastered over the widening cracks with fiscal irresponsibility. Finally the people had enough and voted Thatcher in. The only way to unwind the problem was to commit to such an austere programme of severity it had a huge impact on society we are still suffering the after effects to this very day. Huge sales of Govt. assets took place to replenish the coffers, those assets are no longer there to sell. Society was broken up as we knew it and the new paradigm was introduced. The pendulum then swung too far the other way.

Unfortunately, this time round many things are different.

However, I have always said, and will always say, we will survive, but pain must be absorbed and dealt with as soon as possible or those of us who are 50+ (including myself) will be leaving a dreadful legacy to the next generation.

[Napoleon Ier]

We can use inflation as a panacea which will adjust the monetary shock and inject liquidity into the banking system, surely?

Indeed it it so. However, inflation brings its own set of problems. Those problems can sit inside the system for now, but at some point they will come to the surface and then we have pain again. In the UK back in the 1970s we were a busted flush, we had to borrow from the IMF to stay afloat as a country and those of us of a certain age will recall the 3 day working week, the rampant inflation, when pay rises were negotiated as monthly increments (threshold payments as they were known) the real lack of self respect and the general unwinding of so many things including the stock market which dropped to 70 yes 70 points! All this had happened because successive Govts in power had plastered over the widening cracks with fiscal irresponsibility. Finally the people had enough and voted Thatcher in. The only way to unwind the problem was to commit to such an austere programme of severity it had a huge impact on society we are still suffering the after effects to this very day. Huge sales of Govt. assets took place to replenish the coffers, those assets are no longer there to sell. Society was broken up as we knew it and the new paradigm was introduced. The pendulum then swung too far the other way.

Unfortunately, this time round many things are different.

However, I have always said, and will always say, we will survive, but pain must be absorbed and dealt with as soon as possible or those of us who are 50+ (including myself) will be leaving a dreadful legacy to the next generation.

But Thatcher had to give up on monetary policy targeting specific money aggregates very quickly because of unemployment, surely explaining that monetarism is not a serious solution, but was used to dupe the people and force them to accept radical laissez-faire policies.

Surely the solution to the present crisis is massive regulation of the banks, and low interest rates promoting massive injections of new capital into the economy to ensure that money-hoarders start to feel confident enough to spend.