wrong teams in a tourney

[Seulessliathan]

hey everybody!

I would like to know your opinion about the following situation:

a triple tourney, final games have been set up, best of 9. Team a lost a player due to RL-problems. Team 1 looks for a substitution and find a player who will join their team. So team 1 joins. First player of team 2 joins. Second player of team 2 joins. And then team 1 pm´s a player of their choice and ask them to join all these games, and that player joins on team 2, although he has been pm´d by team 1.

Now there are 4 players of team 1 and 2 players of team 2 in these 9 games. The regular third player of team 2 can´t join because a player who should be sub for team 1 took his place.

Tournament leader said these games won´t count and there will be another 9 games with the correct teams.

What would you do now with the 9 games which have already started if you don´t have the time to play 18 of these games because you have a life same time (it´s unlimited triple esca World 2.1, so all games are time consuming)

I´m not interested to play 9 more games with a player i have never played a team game together before and who were chosen from the opponent team. So i suggested that we split the games, each team suicides into their own team so these games don´t cost any time and each player has a minimum point lose. I calculated the numbers and made a suggestion about which teams throw which games so my team will lose about 4 points in total.

I´m not willing to team up all these games with their teammate. Nothing personal against that player, but another player played that tourney with me and deserves to play the finals, and i don´t have the time to play the double number of games now.


What do you think about my suggestion? Is it a fair deal for everybody to split the games with wrong teams and set up 9 new games with correct teams? Has anybody a better idea which doesn´t push my team to play 18 games instead of 9 games but gives my teammate who´s place was taken a chance to play the finals?


PS: viewtopic.php?f=91&t=67645&start=75

[khazalid]

sounds perfectly reasonable to me seul

[firstholliday]

yup sounds good

[daydream]

seems like a very fair solution to the problem. i can understand that its hard to trust a person on your team that joined intending to play with the others...

[zdrakias]

Oh I see the problem now, the other team are higher ranked players so if we split the games they will lose more points and this might be a problem for them.

Thats why Seul came up with the Idea of giving each team the same points.

I like my 100% turns taken record.

There are other ways to lose a game then deadbeat. So you can keep your 100% .

->
fair solution. The mistake has been done by Team 1, not by Team 2.
So I guess Team 1 has to accept a fair solution.
Noone loses points, noone needs to miss a turn, noone can say it was unfair afterwards.

[AndrewB]

Even though it sounds as a good solution, you cannot force the other team to deadbeat.

Them placing a forth person into other team was very sneaky and should be reported.

If I was a TO for that tournament, I would disqualify team 1 altogether.

But I am not sure what you can do with the games started...

[BaldAdonis]

That sounds like a silly solution. Why not play the nine games, then when they're all done, set up the proper ones?

Or, like Andrew said, team 1 "loses" in the tournament aspect because they can't get their act together. So you can play the 9 games and you won't need another set.

[Seulessliathan]

What would you do now with the 9 games which have already started if you don´t have the time to play 18 of these games because you have a life same time (it´s unlimited triple esca World 2.1, so all games are time consuming)

I´m not interested to play 9 more games with a player i have never played a team game together before and who were chosen from the opponent team.

That sounds like a silly solution. Why not play the nine games, then when they're all done, set up the proper ones?

Or, like Andrew said, team 1 "loses" in the tournament aspect because they can't get their act together. So you can play the 9 games and you won't need another set.

you want more reasons? have a look at teals fort in round 1 (it´s unlimited)

[Night Strike]

This scenario is very possible when the organizer doesn't PM the teams one at a time. The organizer should take responsibility and watch the games as they fill in case they don't fill properly. If there is a problem, the organizer should have dropped the games and made new ones. Either way, you all will have to just come up with a solution, play 18 games, or wait until those end to make new ones.

By the way, moved to Tournament General Info.

[Optimus Prime]

Standard tournament procedure is to remake the games when they get messed up. What is the big deal here? Why do we need a bunch of crazy special circumstances?

[Seulessliathan]

Standard tournament procedure is to remake the games when they get messed up. What is the big deal here? Why do we need a bunch of crazy special circumstances?

Nobody said that we need it, i just asked what could be the best solution.
OP, you are a master of many tournaments, so perhaps you can give us your opinion?

How do you deal with games which are messed up? Imagine it´s a tourney for freebies and they don´t have a free slot for restarting the game and there other slots are full? They won´t be happy to be stucked in a game like that, so is playing it out the best solution for everybody? That could delay the tourney by weeks or month (depending on the setting).

[Optimus Prime]

Standard tournament procedure is to remake the games when they get messed up. What is the big deal here? Why do we need a bunch of crazy special circumstances?

Nobody said that we need it, i just asked what could be the best solution.
OP, you are a master of many tournaments, so perhaps you can give us your opinion?

How do you deal with games which are messed up? Imagine it´s a tourney for freebies and they don´t have a free slot for restarting the game and there other slots are full? They won´t be happy to be stucked in a game like that, so is playing it out the best solution for everybody? That could delay the tourney by weeks or month (depending on the setting).

You remake the games when and as they finish so that as little time as possible is wasted. There isn't anything else you can do. These things happen from time to time when running tournaments. Run enough of them and it will happen more often. You just learn from it and move on.

[Nephilim]

nightstrike, i really have to question your credibility here: you can't blame the tourney organizer, and it's quite obvious why you can't. the mistake occurred at the last second: there was no problem until the LAST player joined the games when he shouldn't have. the only way blitz could have avoided this was to monitor the games 24 hours a day, then noticed that rbel was joining them! pretty silly

oh and optimus, do you really fail to understand the beef seul has here? you know, like, he doesn't want to lose his points in such a ridiculously unfair fashion?


seul, if i were you, i would appeal to lack to delete these games. it's really a very stupid situation and you shouldn't have to put up with it. also, why the f*ck did team 1 ask rbel to join the games and why did he do it? was he high or something?

if lack won't cancel the games, your solution is about as fair as it gets

[Night Strike]

nightstrike, i really have to question your credibility here: you can't blame the tourney organizer, and it's quite obvious why you can't. the mistake occurred at the last second: there was no problem until the LAST player joined the games when he shouldn't have. the only way blitz could have avoided this was to monitor the games 24 hours a day, then noticed that rbel was joining them! pretty silly

There's nothing to question on my credibility. When you send out the games to both teams at the same time, you run the risk of people joining the game incorrectly. That's why it's preferable to send the games to one team at a time.


By the way, I HIGHLY doubt lack would delete the games. He rarely does it for games that mess up due to a site glitch.

[Kotaro]

Why would you question Night Strike? Now, I'm not a Tournament Director, Organizer, Host-er, etc., but I've played in lots (my usual procedure being, go around the entire "create/join a tournament" forum and say "in", in about every one), and when people decide to PM the password to both parties at once, I either A) refuse to join the game until every player except me is exactly where they should be, or B) abandon the tournament. PMing both teams is a poor choice in general.

[AndrewB]

nightstrike, i really have to question your credibility here: you can't blame the tourney organizer, and it's quite obvious why you can't. the mistake occurred at the last second: there was no problem until the LAST player joined the games when he shouldn't have. the only way blitz could have avoided this was to monitor the games 24 hours a day, then noticed that rbel was joining them! pretty silly

There's nothing to question on my credibility. When you send out the games to both teams at the same time, you run the risk of people joining the game incorrectly. That's why it's preferable to send the games to one team at a time.


By the way, I HIGHLY doubt lack would delete the games. He rarely does it for games that mess up due to a site glitch.

NS, u completely misunderstood the issue...

EVEN if Seus would send the invite one team at the time, what would prevent the team 1 to add their last player at the last second???

The password is the same for BOTH first and second team. After first team joined, what can prevent them to add another player???

[Kotaro]

Uhh, the games are passworded. So, if only 1 team had the password at any one time, then there's no excuses for joining wrong. If someone from team 1 drops out AFTER team 2 gets the password, and try to join back, even when it's obvious that they're on the wrong team, then they're acting like idiots and should be disqualified for such.

AND

If team 1 decides to have another person join, someone not in the tournament, they need to be disqualified.

[AndrewB]

If team 1 decides to have another person join, someone not in the tournament, they need to be disqualified.

That is the in fact what happened, and that is what I suggested

[Kotaro]

Then drop them from the tournament. They're done. Don't remake the games, just remove them, and move on.

[AndrewB]

But actually what Seus was asking was what to do with the wrong games.

Options are:

1. All deadbeat (which Seus cannot force them)
2. Lack will delete the games (extremely unlikely)
3. Just play them out and put team 1 on the foe list and prohibit from joining any future tournaments...

[Stephan Wayne]

damn them are some long as hell post you guys have to much time on your hands

[Kotaro]

Stephen mate, put the drink down

AndrewB, games just aren't deleted. That's known by anyone who play this game for more then 5 minutes knows. Play the games out, foe/blacklist them if you want, and move on. Not rocket surgery here, mates.

[AndrewB]

sorry kotaro, i was playing this game just for 4 minutes

maybe u will forgive me for posting here, rocket surgeon?

[Scott-Land]

The problem isn't about playing 9 extra games or protecting 'our precious points' as some put it. There was a reasonable solution. We win 5 and they win 4... no one has to deadbeat and no one loses their 'precious 100% turns taken'. The mistake wasn't made on our part so why not handle it amicably? The request isn't unreasonable so you have have to ask yourself what was the real motive here when they are so unwilling.

Points aren't an issue with me- but for a sequential player to hit 4100+ is an amazing feat. Game selection is crucial- and when you don't get to select the games and forced to play 9 games without your regular partners, I'd be highly pissed off if I were Seul and rightfully so. Who gives a rat's ass if the other team never played before. It's their choice and we should have a choice too. However that's not the reason he's upset... it's an honor issue and was treated disrespectfully when the other side was not open for discussion to resolve the issue. We're playing and the hell with what you say!

Tbh- if Rblgrod forted in the first 3 games he took his turns ( Unlimited W2.1) and Seul was here, we prolly win the majority of them. But that's not the issue...

[Nephilim]

nightstrike, i really have to question your credibility here: you can't blame the tourney organizer, and it's quite obvious why you can't. the mistake occurred at the last second: there was no problem until the LAST player joined the games when he shouldn't have. the only way blitz could have avoided this was to monitor the games 24 hours a day, then noticed that rbel was joining them! pretty silly

There's nothing to question on my credibility. When you send out the games to both teams at the same time, you run the risk of people joining the game incorrectly. That's why it's preferable to send the games to one team at a time.


By the way, I HIGHLY doubt lack would delete the games. He rarely does it for games that mess up due to a site glitch.

well, the questionable thing is that you blame the tourney organizer when it's so obvious that you're wrong. first off, blitz does pm one team at a time, at least some of the time, i've seen it myself. second, one might have a reasonable expectation that this group of players, who are some of the most experienced on the site, wouldn't f*ck this up. third and most importantly, in the actual facts of this case, blitz could have sent the pm to team 1, waited for them to join, then sent it to team 2, and THE EXACT SAME MISTAKE could have occurred. prowler could still pm rbel and ask him to join, no matter how blitz went about the pm's.

thus, it is obviously not blitz's fault that this happened. he could have played it all correctly (in your opinion) and this mess could still happen. which leads to the proper conclusion: fault can be attributed to no one but team 1 (and the secondary conclusion that you ain't exactly seein' straight)