Why Didn't Pastor Manning Vote for Obama?

[Dancing Mustard]

then don't read my posts if you don't like them.

No. Let's try prevention rather than cure shall we?

How about this: Don't make your posts at all if they're not going to be of any use to the thread in question. Just because spam is long doesn't stop it from being spam.

at night, when you lay in your bed wondering how it is that after your government has finished with you, your actual working wage is half of what they tell you it is because they have decided that they know better how to spend your money than you do, you always have to come back to... oh, yes, I am supposed to feel compassionate towards people because my government tells me so.

What a load of bullshit, evidence plz.

Another Straw-Man from BES... what a surprise.

I will let them skim my paycheck to pay for the idiot masses, whom they keep dependent on said government with "dumbing down" educational programs and social handouts in the guise of a better society for all.

Again, bullshit. Evidence pl0x.

If you want to help someone, don't give them a fish. Teach them how to fish and let them work ethically to feed themselves

Hmm, an old cliche... weren't we talking about you relying on those too much only a few moments ago?

Anyway, the reasons your argument falls down are because (1) liberals actually favour giving people fish while teaching him how to catch them themselves, y'know so they don't starve to death during the learning process, and (2) your world proposition involves neither giving fish to people, nor paying for them to learn how to catch them, instead you seem to favour throwing people into the river regardless of their health, then just forgetting about them and presuming that if they don't make it out ok then it must be their fault.

Enlightened? Forward thinking? Remotely logical? Well, perhaps if you live in the 14th century...

Your ideas about socialist capitalism are simply a conduit for ever left reaching social policy.

Wheeeee! We're back to the bullshit again.

Go on, why not just accuse me of being a lizardman or something, take your rabid speculation and accusation hurling to the extreme. It's already silly, why not go the whole hog and make it ludicrous? After all you seem to love doing it several times in every post, why hold back?

First you mandate affirmative action, Then bail out corporate institutions. Then you give away health care. Food, clothing, housing... its soon to all be from the government.

What word am I about to say next? Here's a clue, it starts with B and ends with ullshit.

Nobody here has said they agree with all three programs you specified, and furthermore they're spread between several different nations (meaning one government couldn't physically mandage them all).

Finally, 'giving away healthcare' is something of a misnomer, what with us believing that a right to a basic standard of health is something of a human right to which every man ought to be entitled regardless of his monetary situation. In other words, you saying 'giving away' in that context sounds about as ridiculous to us as if you were complaining that the government was just 'giving away oxygen' or 'giving away freedom'.

historically, this has not gone well.

Poo originating from cattle.

Prove it. Remind me of the social policy direction of the majority of G8 nations?

While the Government may seem like the right place for these kinds of things to be coming from, in truth, it is a wolf in sheep's clothing, mainly due to governments corrupt and inefficient nature.

Bull... oh you know where this is going.

Come on, prove all this rubbish you're foaming out.

Corrupt nature? Get out of your tinfoil already... how is government any more corrupt than private industry. For reference, see Wall Street, then go read about what 'Antitrust' is and why we have it.

I think its you who doesn't know enough to make an effective contribution here, if for no other reason because I have yet to hear a reason other than compassion for the less fortunate.

Then may I kindly suggest that you remove the cotton wool from your ears?

Seriously, if you're not going to read other people's posts, or are unable to understand them, then what's the point of you even participating? Your foghorn approach to debating is barely going to change any minds.

[comic boy]

Now let me see,,,,,

Obama was elected overwhelmingly by the voters of the US and the result was warmly welcomed across the globe.
A troll whose vast intelect did not preclude him from being busted on a gaming site , now concludes that his country will be plunged into Socialism as a result of the election result

[TurinTurambar]

I'm not going to be a part of the preceding argument; so if that's what you're here for, then skip my post

As a colored American, I find it extremely interesting that, according to exit polls, 94% of African Americans voted for Obama. In almost every other area, the exit polls showed 51/49 or 52/48 with age being the other exception. The younger age groups voted more for Obama (I think that was in the 65/35 range?). Someone made the point earlier that maybe blacks voted for Obama because he was the better candidate, based on policies and promises. I'm not all those people, so I can't really know. But judging from the past and knowing people in general and how there is usually a pretty even split in their thoughts on what policies actually are good and promises that are made, isn't it interesting that 94% of blacks suddenly agreed that this one man's policies could unite them all? I'm not saying it couldn't happen. I'm just saying...hmmm...maybe race did have a little bit of sway in their votes.

[Backglass]

I don't see what this argument proves.

If 94% of Catholics voted for a Catholic candidate, people wouldn't be pointing and saying "AHA!! SEE!".

[Frigidus]

I don't see what this argument proves.

If 94% of Catholics voted for a Catholic candidate, people wouldn't be pointing and saying "AHA!! SEE!".

Actually...anyone remember Kennedy?

http://cara.georgetown.edu/Presidential%20Vote%20Only.pdf

Catholics went from 51% Democratic support to 78% the year Kennedy was elected, as opposed to African American support growing from 88% in 2004 to 94% this year? Huh, 27% versus 6%...Catholics are total bigots!

[spurgistan]

For me, the possibilty that Black Americans grew more attached to a black presidential candidate because of the ultra-historic significance his election would have for their symbolic socio-political progression through American society, the pride that I saw them express when, "only" (I put that in quotes because it's ludicrous that it took this long) 143 years after their ancestors were bought and sold with no rights to call their own, 43 years since all blacks had the right to vote, that this was the final, most important social landmark left to pass: is it wrong that some blacks saw Obama as the final torchbearer to break the last glass ceiling?

Can you wade through that pseudo-academic jibberish? Jeesh, I hate finals.

[DaGip]

Wake UP, PEOPLE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A893yu89KQs

[black elk speaks]

For me, the possibilty that Black Americans grew more attached to a black presidential candidate because of the ultra-historic significance his election would have for their symbolic socio-political progression through American society, the pride that I saw them express when, "only" (I put that in quotes because it's ludicrous that it took this long) 143 years after their ancestors were bought and sold with no rights to call their own, 43 years since all blacks had the right to vote, that this was the final, most important social landmark left to pass: is it wrong that some blacks saw Obama as the final torchbearer to break the last glass ceiling?

Can you wade through that pseudo-academic jibberish? Jeesh, I hate finals.

that would be a failure as an atrocious run on sentence with no real point.

[spurgistan]

Truth. You should see some of these craptacular essays I'm writing, kind of a lesson why humans need sleep. But then, try and argue with that on the merits.

[black elk speaks]

Wake UP, PEOPLE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A893yu89KQs

The biggest thing that people are missing is that he isn't even black. He is half black and he was raised by whites.

[black elk speaks]

try this:

For me, the possibilty that Black Americans grew more attached to a black presidential candidate because of the ultra-historic significance his election would have for their symbolic socio-political progression through American society is disappointing. The pride that Black Americans expressed was in my opinion, misguided. After all, it has been 143 years since their ancestors were bought and sold with no rights to call their own, and 43 years since all blacks had the right to vote. Is it wrong that some blacks saw Obama as the final torchbearer to break the last glass ceiling for their ascent to better than second class citizen status? Perhaps, given the reality that this President-Elect has not very much more in store for Black Americans than more of the same. The sensationalism of sub-standard promotion based in the idea that Black Americans cannot compare to those of other races in America and should have quota mandated advantages based on race rather than skill is a sad testimony to the progress that Black Americans have made since their liberation.

I think that might be what you are trying to say.

[mpjh]

Hey, if you look deep enough into all our genetic makeup, we all came from Africa. So get over it.

[sammy324]

If a white person chooses to vote for a white man instead of a black man, based soley on race, he is racist. Shouldn't it be that if a black person votes for a black candidate over a white candidate, based soley on race, isn't he a racist?

In general, blacks have gone 90% for democrats in the last few election cycles. Is it remotely possible that the 3-4% jump came because blacks increased their turnout and voting percentage only because blacks had an historic opportunity to vote for a black man?

I don't even think it's a bad thing that blacks vote for a black candidate. Identity politics is common, and unreasonable to expect it to be otherwise. But with all the hyping of Obama and the Obamedia about, "I don't look like all the other people on your money," or the countless stories talking about how (white) people won't/didn't vote for Obama because of his race, it seems like a double standard that there has been little scrutiny over the blacks who were not voting for McCain because of his race.

I obviously can't get into his mind, but I find it odd that Colin Powell chose to endorse Obama, when he has little history of supporting candidates with records and stances remotely close to Obama's liberal policy choices. Of course, everyone took Rush Limbaugh out of context when they decided to go crazy over his pointing out of the same thing. To quote, as well as I remember, he said, "I would like someone to point out for me any white, super-liberal candidates Powell has supported."

[black elk speaks]

Hey, if you look deep enough into all our genetic makeup, we all came from Africa. So get over it.

wow... that's er.. umm.. deep

ooooo, I know... if you look deep enough into our genetic makeup, we all came form the ocean too.

[mpjh]

Yes, and some, like you, still haven't shaken off the slime.

[black elk speaks]

You just don't get it. Just being a human being does not qualify you for anything. You have to prove that you are worth your salt in this world. Obama has promised everybody a little piece of the pie, whether they earn it or not. That isn't how America was built. It was built buy hard work and dedication. not panhandling and laziness.

when Obama refers to a child as a punishment, he plants the idea into people's minds that they mad ea mistake and that it is going to drag them down. As hard as it might be for you to understand, the idea that is supported is not that a child is a punnishment, but a responsibility. If you give someone a responsibility, and support for that responsibility, you should be hoping that they can live up to the challenge. That is what Reverend Manning is talking about when he says that Black people aren't ready for the challenge of being responsibility. Its because Black leaders too often incite the idea of entitlement into the hearts and minds of Black Americans. Just like government officials that will never eliminate their political positions, Black Americans will never shed the notion of entitlement for the back bone of responsibility and contribute to society. not so long as uncle toms like Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan keep telling them that they are entitled to something more than they actually earn.

[DaGip]

So why did blacks vote for Obama? Perhaps this vid will shed a little light on the matter (I wish George Jefferson was president):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EuYfoxGbZs

[Matleasers!]

dey did it 4 da lulz

[mpjh]

They did it because they believe that:

Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
The mountains and the endless plain--
All, all the stretch of these great green states--
And make America again!

Langston Hughes

[black elk speaks]

They did it because they believe that:

Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
The mountains and the endless plain--
All, all the stretch of these great green states--
And make America again!

Langston Hughes

Don't forget the foodstamps, and the welfare checks... the free healthcare and the facade that he is actually African American... oh, no... don't forget that.

[mpjh]

You are a racist pig. with a tiny mind, incapable of compassion or true patriotic sentiment, and lost in an image of yourself totally dependent on puerile, juvenile intellectual depth.

[black elk speaks]

You are a racist pig. with a tiny mind, incapable of compassion or true patriotic sentiment, and lost in an image of yourself totally dependent on puerile, juvenile intellectual depth.

save it for flamewars shit house. I have a plethora of reasons for not liking Obama. But this thread is about why people did vote for him. I say LOTS didit because he played himself as black, and that got blacks to the poles. Many more (centralists and republicans) did it to punish the republican party. And then there are the lefties like you... looking for a handout.

[mpjh]

This thread is about how ignorant a post can you file in response the to truth filed by others.

[Dancing Mustard]

he played himself as black

Er... yeah? The moment that he took of that rubber mask and showed us that he was actually not black was a real surprise... right?

that got blacks to the poles

I checked with the Polish immigration services and they report no significant increase in the number of African immigrants to their shores. Perhaps you have been misinformed?

there are the lefties like you... looking for a handout.

Yeah BESsie! You beat that straw-man good! Make him out of hay, prop him up against the barn, then lay the motherfucking SMACK down on him! Lefties! Communists! Aliens! Take it big style from the Elk's Elbow! Oh yeah!!!! He's gonna make up a load of stuff he wishes you'd said, then pummel it for fifty motherfucking pages!! Oh they don't make asswhupin like they used to no more!!!!

In other words, shut up. Come back when you're willing to argue against other people' actual arguments, instead of just ranting and raving at your own personally imagined demons.

[black elk speaks]

he played himself as black

Er... yeah? The moment that he took of that rubber mask and showed us that he was actually not black was a real surprise... right?

that got blacks to the poles

I checked with the Polish immigration services and they report no significant increase in the number of African immigrants to their shores. Perhaps you have been misinformed?

there are the lefties like you... looking for a handout.

Yeah BESsie! You beat that straw-man good! Make him out of hay, prop him up against the barn, then lay the motherfucking SMACK down on him! Lefties! Communists! Aliens! Take it big style from the Elk's Elbow! Oh yeah!!!! He's gonna make up a load of stuff he wishes you'd said, then pummel it for fifty motherfucking pages!! Oh they don't make asswhupin like they used to no more!!!!

In other words, shut up. Come back when you're willing to argue against other people' actual arguments, instead of just ranting and raving at your own personally imagined demons.

Straw man you say? I think I have expressed why I disagree with mpjh well enough. Let me sum it up for you:

He thinks that "Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death...etc." was the reason that Black Americans came to the polls and voted in BO. To some extent, possibly true... but let us take a look at the numbers:

according to http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104525.html it looks to me that the black poverty rate has gone down considerably over the last 2 decades. This would tend to tell me that things are not getting worse for them, they are getting overall better. Perhaps we should be talking about the Mexicans though... no, wait... their numbers have improved as well.

So the argument on the part of mpjh may be a bit of an affirmation of the consequent than a straw man on my part.

But, you feel free to share your reasons why you think black people voted for BO. I think that they did it because they see him as the first black president, despite the fact that he is half black. Having grown up in a predominantly black city and in the public school system, I know first hand that, for the most part, half black / half white people are generally rejected by both races. And yet, African Americans came after this guy because they labeled him as black.

I further my argument by saying that he was far from the best candidate for the job. Third party options were infinitely smarter than this guy and for McCain for that matter. Those masses that filed out to vote in their "black" candidate were too stupid to know that there were even other options out there, much less learn what they stood for.

But thanks for your input DM. Your infinite knowledge of American politics and your insignificant opinion on the matter are wholly welcomed.