Westeros

[Iliad]

Much better

I also agree-while many of the names are good, king's landing etc would be better names

[Natewolfman]

I think splitting the North is a bad idea. I realize most of the time the mentality "this is a game and we make changes based on what's good for gameplay" is usually a good one but on a map like this, you want to represent the map as it was done by the creator.

I tend to agree with this part, ill bring this up

you've also managed to leave out many major cities/castles which I think people who've read the book are going to complain about quite a bit. I know you're calling some places based on the names of the area but you've got some which are cities. I think people are going to want to see the names of the cities there which they read about in the book.

you should have seen my first draft i sent sam I had the map and had marked/made an area for every city in the book, but it was WAY to crouded, trust me... so for some areas it was best to go with geographical representation (The fingers, the vale, ect) while others i couldnt find nor think up a better geographical... so i left it to the cities, I think in got *most* of the major cities, the only major exception is kings landing, and that is because we were debateing on making a small side map for kings landing, similar to Rome in Imp. Romania.

Aside from kings landing are there any cities you would like to see that i missed out on?
How does making kings landing into its seperate area sound?

Another side note, I sent in for permission to use the map when i started this, and i still have yet to get a reply either way, if i can get a hold of KEYOGI do you think the permission given to him could translate over to this map?

[PerArdua]

I really like this angle a lot more; however, I must agree with edbeard that you have left out a lot of major cities and landmarks that readers are going to miss. The one that's staring me in the face right now is the complete lack of Winterfell. How can you have a Westeros map without Winterfell? I just noticed that there also is no Riverrun.

How does making kings landing into its seperate area sound?

I think this can be a good idea or a bad one. It all depends on gameplay. I personally would like to see this split up into the 7 realms, with all of them battling for supremacy. If you want to focus more on king's landing then opening up that area wouldn't be a bad idea.

Seeing as how the whole war is a war for the Iron Throne, a separate area for King's Landing might be the way to go. You could make a bonus of some sort for holding the Throne.

1) The North, should it remain as 1 area (as seen in V2) or split in half (as seen in V3)

If you do split it, I would advise against splitting it in half. To maintain the structure of the Westeros as envisioned by George R.R. Martin, the North ought to be the largest area.

2) Iron Islands, what kind of attack routes will this use? its going to be a +1 bonus with multiple port directions, do we just want to connect 2 areas, or perhaps more

The Iron Islands should be connected with a fair number of enemy ports because of the raiding done by the Greyjoys. Maybe connecting with at least one port in each enemy kingdom on the west of Westeros.


</2cents>

[Natewolfman]

I really like this angle a lot more; however, I must agree with edbeard that you have left out a lot of major cities and landmarks that readers are going to miss. The one that's staring me in the face right now is the complete lack of Winterfell. How can you have a Westeros map without Winterfell? I just noticed that there also is no Riverrun.

did winterfell not make it in? honestly i didnt notice, it was in my original draft, but ALOT of areas got cut and winterfell must have been one... no worries THAT is a mistake we can quickly correct as for riverrun, i can do the same, however I named the continent Riverrun that its in, so it may not be as needed

How does making kings landing into its seperate area sound?

I think this can be a good idea or a bad one. It all depends on gameplay. I personally would like to see this split up into the 7 realms, with all of them battling for supremacy. If you want to focus more on king's landing then opening up that area wouldn't be a bad idea.

Seeing as how the whole war is a war for the Iron Throne, a separate area for King's Landing might be the way to go. You could make a bonus of some sort for holding the Throne.

that reinforces my idea of doing it, thank you

1) The North, should it remain as 1 area (as seen in V2) or split in half (as seen in V3)

If you do split it, I would advise against splitting it in half. To maintain the structure of the Westeros as envisioned by George R.R. Martin, the North ought to be the largest area.

I must agree, more support is for the large area of the north then not, and it will likelly change

2) Iron Islands, what kind of attack routes will this use? its going to be a +1 bonus with multiple port directions, do we just want to connect 2 areas, or perhaps more

The Iron Islands should be connected with a fair number of enemy ports because of the raiding done by the Greyjoys. Maybe connecting with at least one port in each enemy kingdom on the west of Westeros.

a good point, and one that will likelly happen

thanks for the input!

[Iliad]

Btw-where's Dragonstone? Being the seat of one the five kings(I think spoilers are inevitable for this map) it is kidna important.

It would have to border with storm's end and north of king's landing

[PerArdua]

Btw-where's Dragonstone? Being the seat of one the five kings(I think spoilers are inevitable for this map) it is kidna important.

It would have to border with storm's end and north of king's landing

Well, Dragonstone is not actually part of Westeros. While it is close in proximity to the mainland, it is actually just a small island in the Narrow Sea. It is a major player in the novels (being the seat of the Targaryens and Stannis) but it is not really necessary for this map.

Also, because of it's size it would not be able to be broken into different territories. It would either have to be just neutral or be hard to hold for a +1 bonus. Attaching it to another realm would be grossly inaccurate.

This reminds me, is this map going to be broken up into the Seven Kingdoms or are you going to assign bonuses differently?

[Natewolfman]

This reminds me, is this map going to be broken up into the Seven Kingdoms or are you going to assign bonuses differently?

I used the image below as a base image for this map, NOTE: I didnt make this image and it is not one of my drafts
[bigimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/Natewolfman/westeros_political.gif[/bigimg]

[Iliad]

That map is quite good socially, showing the borders of each house

[Natewolfman]

Here it is, Version 4.0
[bigimg]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s237/samuelc812/WesterosV4.jpg[/bigimg]

Changes:

• Added Kings Landing, Found a pic on the internet and they were the main features of it, it was just to get an idea of what it may look like really.
• Added Riverrun and Winterfell as requested.
• Changed north back to one Bonus

To Do:

• Add Unplayable land to the North
• Add bonuses
• Add Connections from Iron Islands (sea dragon point, cape of eagles, Kayce, Black Crown)
• Move kings landing over to its correct location (it should be on the river front)

MY questions to you for this update!
-Iron Islands connections - are those fine? would you like to see more, or at different locations?
-Bonus Discussion - What are your thoughts on bonus's for regions

Sam informs me that updates will likelly come in once a week

[edbeard]

one thing that bothers me which is bound to upset you is that the previous map that Keyogi and Spockers were doing was very high quality in the graphics department. This one is not. I think it's owed to this great series to have something high quality. I'm not saying you're not capable or you're not going in that direction but right now there's nothing on the image that leads me to believe you are.

[samuelc812]

one thing that bothers me which is bound to upset you is that the previous map that Keyogi and Spockers were doing was very high quality in the graphics department. This one is not. I think it's owed to this great series to have something high quality. I'm not saying you're not capable or you're not going in that direction but right now there's nothing on the image that leads me to believe you are.

For Starters we are not KEYOGI and Spockers if they want that style of map they should have kept going with it i should think. We are not going for KEYOGI and Spockers style, i do believe this is a quality map, this is "bound to upset you" but i think Haiti wasn't very good, that is my opinion others do like Haiti, just like others like this map and some do not like it such as you. You are entitled to your opinion and i understand that but please this is a draft give it a chance.....

[Natewolfman]

one thing that bothers me which is bound to upset you is that the previous map that Keyogi and Spockers were doing was very high quality in the graphics department. This one is not. I think it's owed to this great series to have something high quality. I'm not saying you're not capable or you're not going in that direction but right now there's nothing on the image that leads me to believe you are.

honestly, im not the one to comment on this (and sam already has) but i tend to say, dont worry about it its only the 4th update we have had, graphics can definately be tweeked and improved over time, im not worried about GFX at all right now, i need to get the gameplay down pat first, I believe ive seen you before say your not a GFX person right? like you do the designs and have others do GFX? I dont mean that as a dis so dont take it as so, but as in most maps... it can be kind of frustrating for the GFX designer when people say "I just dont like the GFX..." or "the quality sucks" but whats nice is advice, if you think someone's image isnt up to snuff, give some advice "this is a good way to shade..." "I have an idea on the border colors how about..."

I apprechiate your work with us so far ed, youve been one of the more active people in this thread, and i hope future updates are more to your liking

[PerArdua]

I really like where this map is going. I think the Iron Islands connections are great right now. Good selection of points and you really can't add anymore without having a bunch of little lines roaming outside the map.

One question about said islands though, is it going to be a 1 territory neutral or are you going to split it and give a bonus? Personally, I like it as a neutral but I thought I'd ask.

Secondly, King's Landing seems rather empty. I mean, only 3 places? But as I write this I'm looking at it and I guess it seems about right. Any more and it would be too many areas for the Crownlands. Maybe it's just a graphics issue. It just seems so plain. But I agree with Nate that GFX isn't a paramount issue early on.

Anyways, how are the areas being named? Is it going to be The North/The Riverlands/The Iron Islands/The Vale of Arryn/The Westerlands/The Reach/The Stormlands/The Crownlands/Dorne? It doesn't have to be like that, that's just how I know them.

You'll notice I haven't mentioned bonuses, I am utterly useless in that regard. No idea.

One last thing, It seems that Widow's Watch and The Fingers are just begging to be connected. God's Grace and Cape Wrath seem the same, but that's debatable.

[Natewolfman]

I really like where this map is going. I think the Iron Islands connections are great right now. Good selection of points and you really can't add anymore without having a bunch of little lines roaming outside the map.

thank you

One question about said islands though, is it going to be a 1 territory neutral or are you going to split it and give a bonus? Personally, I like it as a neutral but I thought I'd ask.

Neutral was the plan yes, it will be a +1 bonus, but always start neutral and a handy way to backstab your way into other places

Secondly, King's Landing seems rather empty. I mean, only 3 places? But as I write this I'm looking at it and I guess it seems about right. Any more and it would be too many areas for the Crownlands. Maybe it's just a graphics issue. It just seems so plain. But I agree with Nate that GFX isn't a paramount issue early on.

kings landing may become 4 rather then 3, though im not sure yet, this is the first draft with KL implimented, so it is certain to change and seem less plain later

Anyways, how are the areas being named? Is it going to be The North/The Riverlands/The Iron Islands/The Vale of Arryn/The Westerlands/The Reach/The Stormlands/The Crownlands/Dorne? It doesn't have to be like that, that's just how I know them.

Ok so how i named them... i created the layout at first and had separated out EVERY city mentioned plus some regions for the open space, but it was FAR too much so we had to condence, and in some areas it made more sense to call it by the regions, while other areas it just made more sense to name them after major cities. Good question, and as i stated before if anyone feels another city should be named that isnt feel free to request!

One last thing, It seems that Widow's Watch and The Fingers are just begging to be connected. God's Grace and Cape Wrath seem the same, but that's debatable.

i thought about this (the widows watch) but decided after talking with a friend about it that it was not in best interest especially when iron islands will provide an additional route

[Iliad]

Wow. I like this update. The iron islands connections seem right. I understand this is your first update with king's landing, but it need to be improved, quality wise.

There's a map of it in the second book I think. So that should not be too hard

For the north-have some lands with icebite?

[MrBenn]

one thing that bothers me which is bound to upset you is that the previous map that Keyogi and Spockers were doing was very high quality in the graphics department. This one is not. I think it's owed to this great series to have something high quality. I'm not saying you're not capable or you're not going in that direction but right now there's nothing on the image that leads me to believe you are.

For Starters we are not KEYOGI and Spockers if they want that style of map they should have kept going with it i should think. We are not going for KEYOGI and Spockers style, i do believe this is a quality map, this is "bound to upset you" but i think Haiti wasn't very good, that is my opinion others do like Haiti, just like others like this map and some do not like it such as you. You are entitled to your opinion and i understand that but please this is a draft give it a chance.....

edbeard didn't make any comments on the style of the map, just about the relative quality of the two images.

On another note, I've never read the books, so am unable to pass judgement on the geography.

You need to be careful with your borders, especially where there are rivers... you need to avoid isolated islands that don't appear to be part of anything, or that confuse territory borders.

As far as gameplay goes, I'm not keen on the bottleneck at the bottom, and the grey landmass seems disproportionately large at the moment.... The inset map doesn't seem to add anything, and I have no idea what you intend do do with bonuses etc.

[Natewolfman]

As far as gameplay goes, I'm not keen on the bottleneck at the bottom, and the grey landmass seems disproportionately large at the moment.... The inset map doesn't seem to add anything, and I have no idea what you intend do do with bonuses etc.

ayeaye, i was convinced as to having 1 large continent at the top rather then 2 as it was originally(see V3) but was convinced gameplay could be more interesting this way AND the fact that its far more accurate to the books this way. Bonus' will come with the next update (i hope) i gave them to same but he didnt put them in the most recent post so hopefully they will be placed in the next

[samuelc812]

edbeard didn't make any comments on the style of the map, just about the relative quality of the two images.

Style and Quality go hand in hand......

[Iliad]

This has slowed down a bit

[Natewolfman]

This has slowed down a bit

i was told by sam updates were to come once a week... though i didnt get one on friday like i normally do, perhaps just a buisy week for him

[StarofTroy]

That is the worst possible map for Westeros. I cannot believe that a fan of the books would make something that unbelievably shitty. It's all slanted over. why. that is stupid. There is a map in the book that could be used as a guide. The guide used for the map is awesome and then the map looks nothing like it!!! I really appreciate that you're trying to make a map of Westoros but this thing looks like the madagascar map.
A map of Westeros should have scope and vision and grandeur and lots of territories. This concept map makes me want to cry.

[Natewolfman]

That is the worst possible map for Westeros. I cannot believe that a fan of the books would make something that unbelievably shitty. It's all slanted over. why. that is stupid. There is a map in the book that could be used as a guide. The guide used for the map is awesome and then the map looks nothing like it!!! I really appreciate that you're trying to make a map of Westoros but this thing looks like the madagascar map.
A map of Westeros should have scope and vision and grandeur and lots of territories. This concept map makes me want to cry.

dude f*ck off! that was such a mean, rude, and totally unhelpfull comment. dont post in the thread if your not going to give valuble or even anywhare romotely helpfull comments. it was only the second true draft, wasnt anywhare near done ass...

I have made the decision, that i will not be continuing the production of this map, I have not read the books and therefore cannot make a good map, i know that is what you are here for but i just don't think it will work out. I also think i am way to overloaded for a project like this. I have 6 tournaments going (yes i know you have like a million going but still), I have a tournament newsletter position that i need to write for each week, i have my own map to do, i run my own usergroup, and i am Editor of the xiGames newsletter, So it mite be best asking edbeard or one of the other more experienced map makers to take this on, one that has actually read the books and can make a decent map. Most people think my attempts are sh!&^*ty, and say that it does not do the books justice.

Sorry, but the final straw was the comment left by [player]StarofTroy[/player], if people think the map is crap then i should not be doing it because i am trying my best and it doesn't seem to be enough for a project of this magnitude. I hope you understand and i don't want to dissappoint you but i feel a cannot continue. I can take criticism, but when it becomes clear that i shouldn't be working on it then i know to leave. Sorry again, i do hope someone else picks it up

Kind Regards,
--[player]samuelc812[/player]

so now i need a new GFX person, but please noone give any more mean or jsut plain UNCOOL comments as above, that was NOT needed

[samuelc812]

That is the worst possible map for Westeros. I cannot believe that a fan of the books would make something that unbelievably shitty. It's all slanted over. why. that is stupid. There is a map in the book that could be used as a guide. The guide used for the map is awesome and then the map looks nothing like it!!! I really appreciate that you're trying to make a map of Westoros but this thing looks like the madagascar map.
A map of Westeros should have scope and vision and grandeur and lots of territories. This concept map makes me want to cry.

First post, it figures

[StarofTroy]

sorry. that was really mean.

[Natewolfman]

noone wants to take it over?