The bible - can any non retards make sense of that shit?

[Snorri1234]

Jesterhawk:

I suppose that if all those are proofs for god, then here are some proofs against god.

My Aunt has MS. She is a Christian and has prayed to be cured. So has her mother, my grandmother. She still has MS. Her husband has a tumor in his spine. They've been praying for a while now...

My grandfather died of several cancers and my grandmother of leukemia. Where was god then?

Indeed. Let's go and bring up instances where God was busy with other things. (Like starting wars.)


My uncle died of throatcancer this year. He was from one of the largest christians families in our country and everybody prayed for him. God didn't do anything though.

My mother died of cancer last year. A cancer that had been slowly spreading over the last 10 years or so. She lived for some time after the diagnosis and friends and family prayed for her. Didn't work, she passed away last november leaving four kids and a husband. I guess God was more concerned with telling believers that homosexuals should be put to death? Right? Or what?

God is a dick.

[Snorri1234]

Damn, the more I think about this story the more it doesn't make any sense.

Just wait until Jay shows up and starts telling us about amputees growing limbs back.

Remember that time he told about his miraculous healing from MS? 10 years ago.

[Backglass]

[Gregrios]

Jesterhawk:

I suppose that if all those are proofs for god, then here are some proofs against god.

My Aunt has MS. She is a Christian and has prayed to be cured. So has her mother, my grandmother. She still has MS. Her husband has a tumor in his spine. They've been praying for a while now...

My grandfather died of several cancers and my grandmother of leukemia. Where was god then?

When I was younger, I used to get severe migraines as well. I finally went to get an MRI and the doctors discovered polyps in my sinuses. These were growing and would pose a major problem if not dealt with. The first attempt at a cure was medication, the second line of defense would be surgery. Fortunately, the medication eliminated the polyps. My life was likely saved by these doctors. Is this any less miraculous than your mystery healings?

While it could be argued that leaving god out of these "healings" is naive, it is equally naive to attribute them fully to god. We just know more about sinus polyps than we do MS or leukemia. I'm not going to give god a free pass just because we don't understand what happened to these people.

"YOU SKIN IS REJECTING THE CANCER!"

Seriously! WTF?!

lol maybe HIS CANCER WAS MUTATING THE ANTIGENS!

There's three ingrediants that are needed for God's intervention, Prayer, faith, & doing the works! Faith as in confidence in God's eventual help and works as in pleasing God in the activities of your life. If a person is praying to God for some kind of help and arn't getting it then they're are either lacking faith or the works in their life.

[DarthBlood]

Jesterhawk:

I suppose that if all those are proofs for god, then here are some proofs against god.

My Aunt has MS. She is a Christian and has prayed to be cured. So has her mother, my grandmother. She still has MS. Her husband has a tumor in his spine. They've been praying for a while now...

My grandfather died of several cancers and my grandmother of leukemia. Where was god then?

When I was younger, I used to get severe migraines as well. I finally went to get an MRI and the doctors discovered polyps in my sinuses. These were growing and would pose a major problem if not dealt with. The first attempt at a cure was medication, the second line of defense would be surgery. Fortunately, the medication eliminated the polyps. My life was likely saved by these doctors. Is this any less miraculous than your mystery healings?

While it could be argued that leaving god out of these "healings" is naive, it is equally naive to attribute them fully to god. We just know more about sinus polyps than we do MS or leukemia. I'm not going to give god a free pass just because we don't understand what happened to these people.

"YOU SKIN IS REJECTING THE CANCER!"

Seriously! WTF?!

lol maybe HIS CANCER WAS MUTATING THE ANTIGENS!

There's three ingrediants that are needed for God's intervention, Prayer, faith, & doing the works! Faith as in confidence in God's eventual help and works as in pleasing God in the activities of your life. If a person is praying to God for some kind of help and arn't getting it then they're are either lacking faith or the works in their life.

or...maybe god doesnt exist
ZOMG NO WAY!

[Frigidus]

Jesterhawk:

I suppose that if all those are proofs for god, then here are some proofs against god.

My Aunt has MS. She is a Christian and has prayed to be cured. So has her mother, my grandmother. She still has MS. Her husband has a tumor in his spine. They've been praying for a while now...

My grandfather died of several cancers and my grandmother of leukemia. Where was god then?

When I was younger, I used to get severe migraines as well. I finally went to get an MRI and the doctors discovered polyps in my sinuses. These were growing and would pose a major problem if not dealt with. The first attempt at a cure was medication, the second line of defense would be surgery. Fortunately, the medication eliminated the polyps. My life was likely saved by these doctors. Is this any less miraculous than your mystery healings?

While it could be argued that leaving god out of these "healings" is naive, it is equally naive to attribute them fully to god. We just know more about sinus polyps than we do MS or leukemia. I'm not going to give god a free pass just because we don't understand what happened to these people.

"YOU SKIN IS REJECTING THE CANCER!"

Seriously! WTF?!

lol maybe HIS CANCER WAS MUTATING THE ANTIGENS!

There's three ingrediants that are needed for God's intervention, Prayer, faith, & doing the works! Faith as in confidence in God's eventual help and works as in pleasing God in the activities of your life. If a person is praying to God for some kind of help and arn't getting it then they're are either lacking faith or the works in their life.

or...maybe god doesnt exist
ZOMG NO WAY!

HEY-O! SCORE ONE FOR THE ALL CAPS SQUAD!

[PopeBenXVI]

If God cured everyone all the time we would all live forever. The end must come to us all and just because God did not cure my Dad's Prostate cancer either does not mean he won't cure someone else's.

[Frigidus]

If God cured everyone all the time we would all live forever. The end must come to us all and just because God did not cure my Dad's Prostate cancer either does not mean he won't cure someone else's.

That seems rather arbitrary. If God's going to save someone why not save everyone? Indeed, what makes him decide between two perfectly eligible people? Hm...forget this line of reasoning, it's always explained away by the "God's Plan" line. I can't stand this argument sometimes.

[PopeBenXVI]

If everyone were saved all the time it wouldn't really be a miracle would it? It would then be normal and you still would find some reason to regect God's existance. As I mentioned you would also live forever and have no reason to consider your own mortality and the fact that you may have to face God.

Oh, and it's God's plan.......JK I had to say that:)

[jesterhawk]

Robert's wife was watching our Pastor's program "Living in the Glory" on the Promiseland Television network on a Sunday and she heard God tell her that she had to take her husband to our church to be healed. Robert had skin cancer to bad that he was hardly easy to look at. In addition to that, he had other medical problems with his liver and kidneys and stomach. In short, he was not doing well. Wednesday night, our next service, She grabbed her husband, who still was not sure why he had to drive over and hour to go to church when their own church was five minutes from their home. They came and in the middle of service the Holy Spirit moved on the Pastor's wife and she called for anyone in need of desperate healing to come forward. Robert came forward and in his own words later he said that when the Pastor began to speak to him he felt fire shooting through his body. He didn't even remember falling out in the spirit when the Pastor anointed him with oil and laid his hands on him. Two days later in the shower, Robert noticed a strange thing, the skin cancer was LITERALLY falling off of him. He was going to the doctor that day anyway and worried he asked him what was happening. The doctor had never seen anything like this and ran tests. The doctor said (and I quote what Robert said the doctor said word for word), "YOU SKIN IS REJECTING THE CANCER!" The doctor was amazed and Robert got to tell him about God. And God was not done because God corrected the issues with his liver and kidneys and stomach. And this was all because Robert's wife heard the voice of the Lord and she was obedient and because God heals and he is real and not a superstition because the doctor's didn't heal Robert.

A lovely campfire story.

How come all these miracles never have any evidence or corroboration? They are always hearsay or a friend of a friend. I also find it interesting that a supposed all-powerful god must work through a slimy TV evangilest to get these things done. Why all the hoops? Why did they need to drive to see a TV preacher? Cant the god(s) just heal you where you stand? Why doesn't this magical mystery being just heal everyone. Were ALL the viewers healed that day? Why not?

I am sorry you must have missed the part where I said that I KNOW THESE PEOPLE PERSONALLY! And tell me, if I gave you the names of the doctors who verified these miracles would you believe? If the board who certified that these doctors were true and valid and were able to accurately judge the medical condition of these people backed up these doctors would you believe? If you saw these miracles before your eyes yourself would you believe? Of the ones who posted about people not being healed, if you saw your loved ones healed, would you believe? If Jesus visited you personally would you believe?

14 Afterward He {Jesus} appeared to the Eleven [apostles themselves] as they reclined at table; and He reproved and reproached them for their unbelief (their lack of faith) and their hardness of heart, because they had refused to believe those who had seen Him and looked at Him attentively after He had risen [from death].
15 And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach and publish openly the good news (the Gospel) to every creature [of the whole human race].
16 He who believes [who adheres to and trusts in and relies on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] and is baptized will be saved [from the penalty of eternal death]; but he who does not believe [who does not adhere to and trust in and rely on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] will be condemned.
17 And these attesting signs will accompany those who believe: in My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages;
18 They will pick up serpents; and [even] if they drink anything deadly, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will get well.
- Mark 16:14-18 Amplified

You see Gregrios is right about the ingredients for a miracle with one addition. Signs, wonders and miracles follow a believer to testify and lead people to Christ. God does them to demonstrate that he is real to show people that he loves them and wants them to know him. Robert, mentioned earlier, had walked away from God but has returned to Jesus. Jeff had no faith in God at all, but as mentioned earlier has come to know Jesus as his savior. Landon's parent had walked away from God, but know they believe. James' testimony has reached many people for Jesus. And so has mine and brought them back to God as well as been used to help some people believe and receive their own healing from God. And all for the glory of God. It is all about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

JH

[comic boy]

Human sacrifice was a time tested method of enlisting God's help, all those good harvests and victories in battle were undeniable proof of how effective the practice was. Of course sometimes the harvest failed and there was mass starvation, over the years as many wars were lost as won but that is easily explained. Firstly God has a masterplan and us mere mortals cannot see the big picture, secondly the bad harvests were because we had displeased God ( perhaps used unatractive virgins or had a second rate buffet at the after sacrifice party.) Lastly of course there was always the chance that the tribe down the road had offered up bigger bribes,maybe a princess plus a couple of prize goats, clearly in those circumstances they would get the nod in any conflict.
Really all you non believers make me feel so frustrated, what does it take to make you accept the obvious, must I break things down so even you blind fools can see;
IF SOMETHING GOES WELL THEN ITS OBVIOUS EVIDENCE OF GOD, IF THINGS GO BADLY THEN GOD HAS A GOOD REASON AND WE SHOULD NOT QUESTION THE MOTIVE.....Lets face this unarguable truth,it's pretty basic stuff !

[PopeBenXVI]

Wise words from a cat who knows all about war and is also secretly a terminator.

[heavycola]

Robert's wife was watching our Pastor's program "Living in the Glory" on the Promiseland Television network on a Sunday and she heard God tell her that she had to take her husband to our church to be healed. Robert had skin cancer to bad that he was hardly easy to look at. In addition to that, he had other medical problems with his liver and kidneys and stomach. In short, he was not doing well. Wednesday night, our next service, She grabbed her husband, who still was not sure why he had to drive over and hour to go to church when their own church was five minutes from their home. They came and in the middle of service the Holy Spirit moved on the Pastor's wife and she called for anyone in need of desperate healing to come forward. Robert came forward and in his own words later he said that when the Pastor began to speak to him he felt fire shooting through his body. He didn't even remember falling out in the spirit when the Pastor anointed him with oil and laid his hands on him. Two days later in the shower, Robert noticed a strange thing, the skin cancer was LITERALLY falling off of him. He was going to the doctor that day anyway and worried he asked him what was happening. The doctor had never seen anything like this and ran tests. The doctor said (and I quote what Robert said the doctor said word for word), "YOU SKIN IS REJECTING THE CANCER!" The doctor was amazed and Robert got to tell him about God. And God was not done because God corrected the issues with his liver and kidneys and stomach. And this was all because Robert's wife heard the voice of the Lord and she was obedient and because God heals and he is real and not a superstition because the doctor's didn't heal Robert.

A lovely campfire story.

How come all these miracles never have any evidence or corroboration? They are always hearsay or a friend of a friend. I also find it interesting that a supposed all-powerful god must work through a slimy TV evangilest to get these things done. Why all the hoops? Why did they need to drive to see a TV preacher? Cant the god(s) just heal you where you stand? Why doesn't this magical mystery being just heal everyone. Were ALL the viewers healed that day? Why not?

I am sorry you must have missed the part where I said that I KNOW THESE PEOPLE PERSONALLY! And tell me, if I gave you the names of the doctors who verified these miracles would you believe? If the board who certified that these doctors were true and valid and were able to accurately judge the medical condition of these people backed up these doctors would you believe? If you saw these miracles before your eyes yourself would you believe? Of the ones who posted about people not being healed, if you saw your loved ones healed, would you believe? If Jesus visited you personally would you believe?

14 Afterward He {Jesus} appeared to the Eleven [apostles themselves] as they reclined at table; and He reproved and reproached them for their unbelief (their lack of faith) and their hardness of heart, because they had refused to believe those who had seen Him and looked at Him attentively after He had risen [from death].
15 And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach and publish openly the good news (the Gospel) to every creature [of the whole human race].
16 He who believes [who adheres to and trusts in and relies on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] and is baptized will be saved [from the penalty of eternal death]; but he who does not believe [who does not adhere to and trust in and rely on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] will be condemned.
17 And these attesting signs will accompany those who believe: in My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages;
18 They will pick up serpents; and [even] if they drink anything deadly, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will get well.
- Mark 16:14-18 Amplified

You see Gregrios is right about the ingredients for a miracle with one addition. Signs, wonders and miracles follow a believer to testify and lead people to Christ. God does them to demonstrate that he is real to show people that he loves them and wants them to know him. Robert, mentioned earlier, had walked away from God but has returned to Jesus. Jeff had no faith in God at all, but as mentioned earlier has come to know Jesus as his savior. Landon's parent had walked away from God, but know they believe. James' testimony has reached many people for Jesus. And so has mine and brought them back to God as well as been used to help some people believe and receive their own healing from God. And all for the glory of God. It is all about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

JH

It displays unbeliveable levels of hubris for these people to suggest that they have been singled out by god, that their prayers were listened to, when millions of believers all over the world, dying of horrible and painful diseases, had their prayers and the prayers of their loved ones ignored by Him today.

Does god move in mysterious ways or doesn't he? If he does, why are we told about salvation and forgiveness and love and mercy and punishment and faith and jealousy and rage and compassion and all the other human qualities that are ascribed to him?
if he doesn't, then these people are for some reason more deserving of his love and compassion than any number of starving, disease-ridden slum children in rio de janeiro or lagos and their already miserable families.
These claims are not evidence of miracles, they are offensive and arrogant declarations of moral superiority. They make me sick. Perhaps i should pray about that.

[Frigidus]

Robert's wife was watching our Pastor's program "Living in the Glory" on the Promiseland Television network on a Sunday and she heard God tell her that she had to take her husband to our church to be healed. Robert had skin cancer to bad that he was hardly easy to look at. In addition to that, he had other medical problems with his liver and kidneys and stomach. In short, he was not doing well. Wednesday night, our next service, She grabbed her husband, who still was not sure why he had to drive over and hour to go to church when their own church was five minutes from their home. They came and in the middle of service the Holy Spirit moved on the Pastor's wife and she called for anyone in need of desperate healing to come forward. Robert came forward and in his own words later he said that when the Pastor began to speak to him he felt fire shooting through his body. He didn't even remember falling out in the spirit when the Pastor anointed him with oil and laid his hands on him. Two days later in the shower, Robert noticed a strange thing, the skin cancer was LITERALLY falling off of him. He was going to the doctor that day anyway and worried he asked him what was happening. The doctor had never seen anything like this and ran tests. The doctor said (and I quote what Robert said the doctor said word for word), "YOU SKIN IS REJECTING THE CANCER!" The doctor was amazed and Robert got to tell him about God. And God was not done because God corrected the issues with his liver and kidneys and stomach. And this was all because Robert's wife heard the voice of the Lord and she was obedient and because God heals and he is real and not a superstition because the doctor's didn't heal Robert.

A lovely campfire story.

How come all these miracles never have any evidence or corroboration? They are always hearsay or a friend of a friend. I also find it interesting that a supposed all-powerful god must work through a slimy TV evangilest to get these things done. Why all the hoops? Why did they need to drive to see a TV preacher? Cant the god(s) just heal you where you stand? Why doesn't this magical mystery being just heal everyone. Were ALL the viewers healed that day? Why not?

I am sorry you must have missed the part where I said that I KNOW THESE PEOPLE PERSONALLY! And tell me, if I gave you the names of the doctors who verified these miracles would you believe? If the board who certified that these doctors were true and valid and were able to accurately judge the medical condition of these people backed up these doctors would you believe? If you saw these miracles before your eyes yourself would you believe? Of the ones who posted about people not being healed, if you saw your loved ones healed, would you believe? If Jesus visited you personally would you believe?

14 Afterward He {Jesus} appeared to the Eleven [apostles themselves] as they reclined at table; and He reproved and reproached them for their unbelief (their lack of faith) and their hardness of heart, because they had refused to believe those who had seen Him and looked at Him attentively after He had risen [from death].
15 And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach and publish openly the good news (the Gospel) to every creature [of the whole human race].
16 He who believes [who adheres to and trusts in and relies on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] and is baptized will be saved [from the penalty of eternal death]; but he who does not believe [who does not adhere to and trust in and rely on the Gospel and Him Whom it sets forth] will be condemned.
17 And these attesting signs will accompany those who believe: in My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages;
18 They will pick up serpents; and [even] if they drink anything deadly, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will get well.
- Mark 16:14-18 Amplified

You see Gregrios is right about the ingredients for a miracle with one addition. Signs, wonders and miracles follow a believer to testify and lead people to Christ. God does them to demonstrate that he is real to show people that he loves them and wants them to know him. Robert, mentioned earlier, had walked away from God but has returned to Jesus. Jeff had no faith in God at all, but as mentioned earlier has come to know Jesus as his savior. Landon's parent had walked away from God, but know they believe. James' testimony has reached many people for Jesus. And so has mine and brought them back to God as well as been used to help some people believe and receive their own healing from God. And all for the glory of God. It is all about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

JH

It displays unbeliveable levels of hubris for these people to suggest that they have been singled out by god, that their prayers were listened to, when millions of believers all over the world, dying of horrible and painful diseases, had their prayers and the prayers of their loved ones ignored by Him today.

Does god move in mysterious ways or doesn't he? If he does, why are we told about salvation and forgiveness and love and mercy and punishment and faith and jealousy and rage and compassion and all the other human qualities that are ascribed to him?
if he doesn't, then these people are for some reason more deserving of his love and compassion than any number of starving, disease-ridden slum children in rio de janeiro or lagos and their already miserable families.
These claims are not evidence of miracles, they are offensive and arrogant declarations of moral superiority. They make me sick. Perhaps i should pray about that.

I remember I read an article in the Chicago Tribune last year in which a man holding (something like) 12 people hostage shot them all in the back of the head, killing 11 and severely wounding one of them. The one that survived said in the article that they thanked God that they were alive...doesn't it seem horrible to thank God that eleven people died and that you weren't one of them? I wonder what the families and friends of the dead guy had to say about God (probably were very forgiving, actually). When I fall into a metric ton of dog shit I don't smile and cheer when I find a $20 bill deep within, but hey, to each his own.

[Backglass]

I I gave you the names of the doctors who verified these miracles would you believe?

No. Names mean nothing, although I wouldn't mind calling them and asking a few questions. Care to tell us who they are?

If the board who certified that these doctors were true and valid and were able to accurately judge the medical condition of these people backed up these doctors would you believe?

I would love to see a peer reviewed analysis of this miracle, giving no other explanation but supernatural intervention. Please post it.

I would also bet $20 that the Doctor in question proclaiming this a miracle is himself a christian. Surely, if he is a Doctor worth his salt, he has written this up and presented it to his fellow Doctors for verification...right? It would make his career...confirmation of a medical miracle.

If you saw these miracles before your eyes yourself would you believe?

Saw what? A mans medical condition improving? No. I need more than just seeing a sick person getting better to believe that a supernatural invisble being is behind it all.

Of the ones who posted about people not being healed, if you saw your loved ones healed, would you believe?

Again, quantify being healed. A miracle healing to me would be: One minute someone is a C2 quadriplegic and then they suddenly they jump up and walk around the room. THAT would be a miracle...not a person gradually getting better as their immune system kicks in.

But these things NEVER happen. Why are the miracles all so vague? Where are the healed thalidomide adults? Why have none of their hand-flippers been transformed into perfect, fully functional limbs? Where are the burn victims whose ears & noses reappear fully intact? They don't exist. All miracle healing's seem to be conveniently internal. Coincidence?

If Jesus visited you personally would you believe?

Of course. Same with any of the gods man has created. If they walked into my office, I would believe instantly but to date, this has never happened. Oh sure, there are shadowy dreams and faces in grilled cheese...but this is not proof of anything but superstition.

14 Afterward He {Jesus} appeared to the Eleven [apostles themselves] as they reclined/....blah blah blah

Yeah Yeah...quotes from a fine story book. This means nothing but the primitive people thousands of years ago told some wonderful tales. Do believe everything word of your bible to be factual? 100%? Or do you pick and choose the parts you like?

You see Gregrios is right about the ingredients for a miracle with one addition. Signs, wonders and miracles follow a believer to testify and lead people to Christ. God does them to demonstrate that he is real to show people that he loves them and wants them to know him. Robert, mentioned earlier, had walked away from God but has returned to Jesus. Jeff had no faith in God at all, but as mentioned earlier has come to know Jesus as his savior. Landon's parent had walked away from God, but know they believe. James' testimony has reached many people for Jesus. And so has mine and brought them back to God as well as been used to help some people believe and receive their own healing from God. And all for the glory of God. It is all about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Of course...that wraps it all up in a tidy little package. The excuses for explaining away the obvious are incredible...it's all a giant, unverifiable test.

[jesterhawk]

I would also bet $20 that the Doctor in question proclaiming this a miracle is himself a christian. Surely, if he is a Doctor worth his salt, he has written this up and presented it to his fellow Doctors for verification...right? It would make his career...confirmation of a medical miracle.

Just for point:

Landon's doctor is a Christian.
Jeff's doctor is a Muslim.
Robert's doctor is a Muslim.
James' doctor I didn't know.
My doctors, of the nine, are three Hindus, four Muslims, and two Atheists.

If you saw these miracles before your eyes yourself would you believe?

Saw what? A mans medical condition improving? No. I need more than just seeing a sick person getting better to believe that a supernatural invisble being is behind it all.

How about this. What would God have to do to show you and you personally that He is real. Seriously, what would you have the creator of the universe do to show you and you only that he personally is real and personally reveals himself to you. From your stances, it sounds like it would take a miracle, but of what caliber. Tell me what I should be praying for for you.

Of the ones who posted about people not being healed, if you saw your loved ones healed, would you believe?

Again, quantify being healed. A miracle healing to me would be: One minute someone is a C2 quadriplegic and then they suddenly they jump up and walk around the room. THAT would be a miracle...not a person gradually getting better as their immune system kicks in.

And if you saw that?

But these things NEVER happen. Why are the miracles all so vague? Where are the healed thalidomide adults? Why have none of their hand-flippers been transformed into perfect, fully functional limbs? Where are the burn victims whose ears & noses reappear fully intact? They don't exist. All miracle healing's seem to be conveniently internal. Coincidence?

I completely disagree. Just because you have not seen them doesn't mean they exist. I have seen too much to disbelieve and I will pray that God opens your eyes to see what I have seen because then you will have no excuse to not believe.

If Jesus visited you personally would you believe?

Of course. Same with any of the gods man has created. If they walked into my office, I would believe instantly but to date, this has never happened. Oh sure, there are shadowy dreams and faces in grilled cheese...but this is not proof of anything but superstition.

What happened that made you so cynical? Especially what God has done nothing but loved you.

14 Afterward He {Jesus} appeared to the Eleven [apostles themselves] as they reclined/....blah blah blah

Yeah Yeah...quotes from a fine story book. This means nothing but the primitive people thousands of years ago told some wonderful tales. Do believe everything word of your bible to be factual? 100%? Or do you pick and choose the parts you like?

I believe the whole Bible.

You see Gregrios is right about the ingredients for a miracle with one addition. Signs, wonders and miracles follow a believer to testify and lead people to Christ. God does them to demonstrate that he is real to show people that he loves them and wants them to know him. Robert, mentioned earlier, had walked away from God but has returned to Jesus. Jeff had no faith in God at all, but as mentioned earlier has come to know Jesus as his savior. Landon's parent had walked away from God, but know they believe. James' testimony has reached many people for Jesus. And so has mine and brought them back to God as well as been used to help some people believe and receive their own healing from God. And all for the glory of God. It is all about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Of course...that wraps it all up in a tidy little package. The excuses for explaining away the obvious are incredible...it's all a giant, unverifiable test.

So, if you so disbelieve why do you bother to post? I wonder if it is because deep down there is a whole inside you that is driving you want to know more and yet there is an anger from being hurt in your past that make you lash out against the very concepts of God. It is alright. There is love and forgiveness at the cross of Jesus. Post hate if you want, but I am praying for you that God reveals himself to you personally so you will know that He loves you.

Love in Christ,
JH

[Dancing Mustard]

If Jesus visited you personally would you believe?

Who wouldn't?

But guess what? He never does. Because he isn't real.

What happened that made you so cynical? Especially what God has done nothing but loved you.

Loved us? Wtf Charles?

He loves us by failing to manifest himself in any way at all? By making his existance seem so incredibly implausible as to make it ridiculous to indulge in believing him? By laying down a crazy code of archaic law then damning us if we break it? By just standing by while plague, famine, war, and death run rampant? Leaving us with nothing but an old book of fairytales to remember him by? Yeah, that's some real loving he's doing there...

I believe the whole Bible.

Including the bits about mandatorily stoning to death adulterous women?

if you so disbelieve why do you bother to post?

To help you cast off your mental shackles and see the light, of course.

Do you really want him to stand back and allow you to labour under illusions created by age-old fairy tales?

Post hate if you want

What hate? He's just pointing out the gaping holes in the logic of your worldview. Don't get upset just because you're wrong... it's not 'hate', it's just plain fact.

I am praying for you that God reveals himself to you personally so you will know that He loves you.

And I am hoping that you will soon be free from your archaic superstitions and mental bondage to ridiculous campfire stories.

Love in Sense,
DM

[Snorri1234]

How about this. What would God have to do to show you and you personally that He is real. Seriously, what would you have the creator of the universe do to show you and you only that he personally is real and personally reveals himself to you. From your stances, it sounds like it would take a miracle, but of what caliber. Tell me what I should be praying for for you.

If he shows up now in my room and peforms something actually magical.

What happened that made you so cynical? Especially what God has done nothing but loved you.

I don't recall much about him loving me. In fact, I have seen nothing that shows he loves me or for that matter anyone else.

[Frigidus]

How about this. What would God have to do to show you and you personally that He is real. Seriously, what would you have the creator of the universe do to show you and you only that he personally is real and personally reveals himself to you. From your stances, it sounds like it would take a miracle, but of what caliber. Tell me what I should be praying for for you.

If he shows up now in my room and peforms something actually magical.

Hell, just show up. If he just came down from the heavens and maybe pulled a coin out of my ear I'd believe he existed. I still wouldn't worship him (I think he's a jerk for holding us accountable for the supposed actions of our ancestors, and I think it's arrogant of him to judge us), but I'd concede his existence.

[Backglass]

Landon's doctor is a Christian.
Jeff's doctor is a Muslim.
Robert's doctor is a Muslim.
James' doctor I didn't know.
My doctors, of the nine, are three Hindus, four Muslims, and two Atheists.

Great. Please post their peer reviewed analysis of this miracle.

How about this. What would God have to do to show you and you personally that He is real. Seriously, what would you have the creator of the universe do to show you and you only that he personally is real and personally reveals himself to you. From your stances, it sounds like it would take a miracle, but of what caliber. Tell me what I should be praying for for you.

How about "show up"? No burning bushes or mystery dreams. A giant face in the sky for all in the world to see would suffice. But evidently your all powerful super being doesn't have this ability.

And if you saw that?

If I saw a verified C2 Quad suddenly jump from his chair, rip the respirator from his throat and shake my hand? I would believe that to be a miracle...yes.

I completely disagree. Just because you have not seen them doesn't mean they exist. I have seen too much to disbelieve and I will pray that God opens your eyes to see what I have seen because then you will have no excuse to not believe.

You have blind faith. I do not. You believe what you want to believe and excuse it away by saying "just because I haven't seen it doesn't make it false". I believe the opposite.

What happened that made you so cynical? Especially what God has done nothing but loved you.

LOL. Jay? Is that you?

You believe that the thousands of gods men have created over the ages are false....except for yours. I just believe in one god less than you. I believe what is real & concrete...not fables, legends and lore passed down from generation to generation around the campfire. You call it cynicism. I call it facing reality.

I believe the whole Bible.

So, you believe that two of every animal on the planet were actually gathered together on a wooden boat? Along with specific food for each...not to mention the excretory requirements? Or did your magical being wave his flipper and provclaim that the beasts would not eat or shit for 40 day/nights?

So, if you so disbelieve why do you bother to post?

Because I think it's a load of horseshit. I don't believe in conspiracy theories either, but I post on those threads as well. (also horseshit).

I wonder if it is because deep down there is a whole inside you that is driving you want to know more and yet there is an anger from being hurt in your past that make you lash out against the very concepts of God.

LOL. Ahhhh yes. The "You must be in deep pain" argument. Sorry, but I have a great life/family/job/kids and no superstitions. I don't need the crutch of a magical sky-daddy to get through the ups & downs of life. What has happened in YOUR life that you must cling to primitive superstitions in order to function? Most likely, nothing...as it has been beaten into your head since birth I would imagine. You then see your god in everything, as it fits with your paradigm. You see a car swerve to avoid a child and instantly think "god was watching out for him!". If the driver hits the child, you say "god had a plan for him". I say the driver simply had good/poor reflexes.

It is alright. There is love and forgiveness at the cross of Jesus. Post hate if you want, but I am praying for you that God reveals himself to you personally so you will know that He loves you.

Again with the words-in-mouth. No hate here...I just don't believe in supernatural, invisible beings that don't have the ability to show themselves. For the record...I DO hate Leprechauns however. Little bastards!

Love in Christ

You better knock on wood and throw some salt over your shoulder as well. And don't step in that crack! You know what will happen to you Mom.

[Gregrios]

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

[Backglass]

Denial is not just a river in Eygpt.

Yup...or Egypt either for that matter.

[Gregrios]

Nice.

[comic boy]

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Indeed, which is why we cannot fathom why some people choose to deny the obvious flaws in their legend.

[Dancing Mustard]

So, no logical rebuttal from Gregrios then? What a surprise...

Perhaps Jesterhawk will be able to do a little better?