kingpin01 wrote:if the area outside the village is neutral, they will have to have a small number of neutral armies on each territory (1-2), or else there will be no incentive to waste armies on going for a bonus. Why would I go across the snow instead of just attacking the people around me?
The number of neutrals will be very small, with most of the territories having one or two neutrals. And I think the bonuses will be good enough (only 1 or two armies, but they grow quickly) that people will want to leave the village.
I might have a small update up later today or tomorrow. I have very little free time these days, sorry for the extremely slow updates...
The most intense part of marching season ends at the end of october. Come November and I should be able to get a lot done on all these projects I have around CC...
Stuff I have done: made a forest re-drew all the buildings to be more like the lighthouse building. Figured out the bonus system. Finished the map key at the top. Added Timber Mill, Log Camp, Fishery. Added some territory names.
Stuff done: I just changed a lot of stuff, getting the map closer to looking like the final image. I added the bonus setup and a few more bonuses. And a forest also. And I replaced all the buildings (except those on Docks and Trade Port, I forgot those) to be like the lighthouse. And I added some borders.
Stuff to do: Fix the rest of the buildings. Add more bonuses. Remove Lanyard's name from the map (I'm doing my own XML now) Everything else...
*notes* ~~~I really want to finish this before winter starts in the northern hemisphere. So expect this to be completed a bit more quickly than Oasis. Plus, I have a lot more free time now, so I can work on it a lot. ~~~I am going to write my own XML for this map. Sorry Lanyards, but I want to do it myself.
Suggestion: add a chieftains house to the village with a bonus of 2.
Or how about having different factions in the village? Or several chieftains houses, 2-4, which give a bonus of +1 for every 2, maybe three, additional houses in the village?
Oh, and wolves. -1 for every wolf territory. Just an idea.
not much to comment on since it's not finished but how about doing colours and shapes for those bonuses to make sure there's no confusion. circles like you've got for red. diamonds for orange. triangles for purple. upside down triangles for teal. whatever.
edbeard wrote:not much to comment on since it's not finished but how about doing colours and shapes for those bonuses to make sure there's no confusion. circles like you've got for red. diamonds for orange. triangles for purple. upside down triangles for teal. whatever.
I agree with that - it's sort of hard to tell right now, for me at least.
I'm not wild about the wee bonus-indicator circles... right off the bat, they're so warm that they really detract from the "winterness" of the map. Is there perhaps a more elegant way of depicting the bonuses? More to the point, why not draw in the rest of the map, and we'll worry about legend and name placement and what not in the main foundry?
Either way, I'm glad to see you've picked this one back up, wca. Keep at it!
THOTA: dingdingdingdingdingdingBOOM
Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est
The Viking wrote:Suggestion: add a chieftains house to the village with a bonus of 2.
Or how about having different factions in the village? Or several chieftains houses, 2-4, which give a bonus of +1 for every 2, maybe three, additional houses in the village?
Oh, and wolves. -1 for every wolf territory. Just an idea.
I don't like the idea of having a bonus within the village, I want all the fighting to be away from the village, forcing people to spread out through the snow to do anything.
I also would like the village to stay as one piece. same reason as before, I want all the bonuses outside the villages.
xruan wrote:You should change the names for the resources. They are too much like the AoR trilogy esp with log camp and timber mill.
Perhaps change gold mine or iron mine to coal mine??
I dunno...maybe one of your terits can be called Blubber and Whale Oil...that seems very winter-ish
I don't think its a problem that they would be similar to AoR. They are both aiming for the same old-winter feel, but the maps are completely different. I change Gold to Coal, or I might just add a coal mine somewhere else. the top-right corner of the map is pretty empty, I might put one there.
ZeakCytho wrote:
edbeard wrote:not much to comment on since it's not finished but how about doing colours and shapes for those bonuses to make sure there's no confusion. circles like you've got for red. diamonds for orange. triangles for purple. upside down triangles for teal. whatever.
I agree with that - it's sort of hard to tell right now, for me at least.
Ok, I'll see what works.
jako wrote:what are u thinking for impassables?
and when are ya gonna add in the rest of the terts?
No impassables except for the river and little bits of the forest between Log Camp and Timber Mill. I want this map to be big and open like Oasis.
The rest of the territories will be added in with the next update, probably. Whenever I get all the bonuses set, so I know where to draw the borders.
Incandenza wrote:I'm not wild about the wee bonus-indicator circles... right off the bat, they're so warm that they really detract from the "winterness" of the map. Is there perhaps a more elegant way of depicting the bonuses? More to the point, why not draw in the rest of the map, and we'll worry about legend and name placement and what not in the main foundry?
Either way, I'm glad to see you've picked this one back up, wca. Keep at it!
Glad to have your support! For the bonuses, I can't think of a better way than using diffrent markers on each territory to explain the bonuses without using a huge, confusing list in the bonus box. What I could do is to use different colors and symbols instead of the bright circles I'm using now. That might make it look a bit better.
yeti_c wrote:Can't really comment on the gameplay until you have all your territories and suggested neutrals/starts?
In other news - I like the style of the graphics... if you wanted to aim away from AOR:2 - then perhaps a change in font.
C.
wca, you're going to really struggle to get gameplay comments until you've got something we can work with... I don't need to see something that's going to be the finished product... I just need to see something I can understand, that has a complete layout/plan
PB: 2661 | He's blue...If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
what if you add in a whaling ship, then you can certainly do whale blubber as a resource. as for the resource symbols, you really dont have a big enough space to do anything other than colors so ya, try experimenting with different, more 'wintery' colors and see if you cant find something you like. otherwhise you might have to go with slightly bigger icons and put in a little iron ingot, silver ingot, stack of lumber, and etc.
i think its a decent attempt at a forest, didnt really notice anything wrong with it at first glance. i would say put it on the backburner until you get the territs up at least. it could stand to be improved but right now its minimal priority
wca, I know that you're keen to be pushed on this map, but at the moment I can't see anything to push - primarily as I can't see how any games will work out....
PB: 2661 | He's blue...If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
I think the reason that the forest doesnt look realistic is the following:
1) The trees just blend together, and are all apparently at the same height. 2) The trees seem to alive. Add an occasional dead tree in there, with no leaves
to fix 2, i said what to do, for 1, maybe have drop shadows from some trees on the tops of others?
I'm hoping I could get a few gameplay comments. even though there aren't any territory names, this should help a bit.
Stuff done: Added all the borders. Changed the colors of the bonus icons.
Stuff left to do: too much to list....
Territory count: 115 winter territories (the cold ones) 28 territories in the starting village. 20 bonus territories. which means a grand total of 163 territories
*note* the yellow marks show where the rest of the bonuses belong. I haven't had time to create all of them, but the yellow shows where they will eventually go. [bigimg]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r315/wcaclimbing/Full3.png[/bigimg]
the middle/spread out thing is bad in that people will attack each other more so than spread out. I think this'll occur more on this map than oasis because everyone is in one spot and the yellow snow bonuses give less than the oasis ones.
I hope shaping those coloured markers is on your to do list. I'm not colour blind but nothing helps more with association than different colours AND shapes. for me it becomes an instant thing whereas different colours only (especially when they're close like this) is more of a "uhh which one is that again. ok yea."
back to the main problem, why am I going to spread out all the way to the trade port? gotta get those +4 armies! oh wait I just lost 20 guys getting there.
I think you should split the 'starting area' into 3 parts. one on that eastern section and two in the west. one up close to the mines and one in the southern most point. maybe even a fourth one to make sure all the sections are close to other sections. or even split them up into quite a few smaller sections so they're spread out around the map and every part of the map becomes useful. And, you have to travel to the extreme areas because your enemies will definitely be there. the whole map now comes into play.
I also hope you will increase the starting territories to 32. 32 is a great number for smaller games. no one starts with 12 so it makes for a good smaller map. 8 player games will have 4 each and no neutrals. 28 will have 3 each and 4 neutrals.
I agree with ed - the 135 non-starting territories are going to be pretty useless if everybody starts next to each other in the middle... Splitting up the central village is one option; you could also use some starting positions around the edge of the map?? Just a random idea for you
PB: 2661 | He's blue...If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
This goes with what Ed and MrBenn just said, but I am going to take it one step further.
So let's say we all start out in the village, and ignore each other, build up some armies, and go head out into the snow.
I work my way in, get a few regions past, and then stop.
Now, all my opponents have to do is wait one turn for me to get hit by the decay, and then follow up behind me to wipe me out.
It seems to me like the game would be in build mode until someone blinked and went for it. Even if they make it to the resources, it is still too easy for someone to follow behind them after they knock down the neutrals and clean up.
Now a possible suggestion, but you guys are the experts so feel free to rip on my ideas:
Since you want to the gameplay to be opposite of Oasis (which looks awesome, btw), make the starting city circular in nature, something like the Iceland map. Put some high numbered neutrals in between each starting point. Now, you have three ways to play: 1) Build in the town with no decay to try to take on high neutrals for the elimination. The counter for this is that after you waste some armies coming through a neutral, your opponent can counter you. 2) Head out for resources in the snow and allow the neutrals to protect you. The counter for this is the decay. It also is a little risky, since with the neutrals, you have a few turns to capture your resources before your opponent comes after your starting point. 3) Possibly venture out through the snow, around the starting town neutral, to try to kill starting points. The counter to this is the decay, and that you have to go out of your way to get to someone.
And completely un-related: Have you considered making the resources bigger bonuses but auto-deploy? The bigger bonus would encourage people to run out and get them, and the auto-deploy could give it the feel of "trekking out through the snow to gather resources." Also, if the decay was able to re-take territories, you would have to keep your 'trade routes' or (plowed routes, dog sled tracks, ski lanes) open to recieve benefits. This would also allow you to get that "start in the village, gather resources, return to the village to fight" idea.
