Crazy Maps And Dice?

thyhammer · Post by **thyhammer** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:46 am

I joined because of the classic look of the map simular to the risk game. Now that has gone I am not sure if I'll be renewing my account. I love the game but I quess I dont like change to much. I do like the map World 2.1 If there is another map that is closer the the classic plz let me know and i'll try it out.

delahoc · Post by **delahoc** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:54 am

Wow!! Excellent post man! And I agree with you 100%!

sublimer wrote:Well, as a member of conquer club, I think a LOT of people here are ignoring the facts of the situation.

I played the board game "Risk" with my friends on game nights and enjoyed it, and sought out a place where I could play online. I didn't go searching for "Feudal War, World V2.1" maps etc etc....

The classic map (old version) was identical to the board game risk except for the cards were colors instead of the board games soldier, cannon and cavalry.

If I honestly sit here and picture myself as a member of a jury being called in for a lawsuit having never really heard of http://www.conquerclub.com and not really caring about the board game risk because I maybe played it 1 time when I was a kid 20 years ago, what am I going to think when they present the facts.

Hasbro (whatever their name is) is going to present the case by showing their board game, then say "this website is making money off of our product by selling it online."

A jury isn't going to sit there and buy all the intellectual property bullshit, they are going to look at the facts and say "You copied it, your making money off their product" and there goes CC altogether. I'm quite sure that whoever runs CC does not have near the assets to go through a lawsuit like that and the end judgement (which is extremely likely) would probably take it down completely.

That means, we are just fucked.... well sort of at least.

Now what CC is telling me, is that I didn't join this website because I love the game Risk. I did pay money because I like the game Risk, that's the bottom line.

So, what do you do in situations like this? You pay them dividends/dues/fees/whatever.

To whoever runs CC, it's a great website and a lot of fun, but I do actually believe that you owe the owners of Risk for the rights to use their product.

For me, I can compare this to drinking beer. If I like to drink Corona beer, you can sit down and put a Budweiser in front of me all day long and tell me it's still a beer and I should just drink that. That does not believe I am going to start preferring Budweiser.

It's the same thing with the website. I like getting cards, rolling dice, taking territories and attacking other people. I don't want to get spoils and assaulting people. You may have changed something to the same thing, but I like it the other way.

You have just lost all the new people that come to this site looking to play "Online Risk" because it doesn't exist anymore.

It's time to negotiate with the Risk owners on how to keep their map on this site. You are abandoning your abilities to attract new members because they are going to skip past CC when they see you do NOT have online risk here.

Do what you need to do, change it back. Start paying dues to Hasbro, I'm sure you can still make money here. I'm willing to pay an extra $5-$10 a year to make up the difference (speaking only for myself though).

It is not the same, you have changed what I came here for. You lost my renewal unless it gets fixed. It's not a threat, I just am not going to pay money for something I don't like, and I don't like what this site turned into.

comic boy · Post by **comic boy** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:57 am

sublimer wrote:Well, as a member of conquer club, I think a LOT of people here are ignoring the facts of the situation.

I played the board game "Risk" with my friends on game nights and enjoyed it, and sought out a place where I could play online. I didn't go searching for "Feudal War, World V2.1" maps etc etc....

The classic map (old version) was identical to the board game risk except for the cards were colors instead of the board games soldier, cannon and cavalry.

If I honestly sit here and picture myself as a member of a jury being called in for a lawsuit having never really heard of http://www.conquerclub.com and not really caring about the board game risk because I maybe played it 1 time when I was a kid 20 years ago, what am I going to think when they present the facts.

Hasbro (whatever their name is) is going to present the case by showing their board game, then say "this website is making money off of our product by selling it online."

A jury isn't going to sit there and buy all the intellectual property bullshit, they are going to look at the facts and say "You copied it, your making money off their product" and there goes CC altogether. I'm quite sure that whoever runs CC does not have near the assets to go through a lawsuit like that and the end judgement (which is extremely likely) would probably take it down completely.

That means, we are just fucked.... well sort of at least.

Now what CC is telling me, is that I didn't join this website because I love the game Risk. I did pay money because I like the game Risk, that's the bottom line.

So, what do you do in situations like this? You pay them dividends/dues/fees/whatever.

To whoever runs CC, it's a great website and a lot of fun, but I do actually believe that you owe the owners of Risk for the rights to use their product.

For me, I can compare this to drinking beer. If I like to drink Corona beer, you can sit down and put a Budweiser in front of me all day long and tell me it's still a beer and I should just drink that. That does not believe I am going to start preferring Budweiser.

It's the same thing with the website. I like getting cards, rolling dice, taking territories and attacking other people. I don't want to get spoils and assaulting people. You may have changed something to the same thing, but I like it the other way.

You have just lost all the new people that come to this site looking to play "Online Risk" because it doesn't exist anymore.

It's time to negotiate with the Risk owners on how to keep their map on this site. You are abandoning your abilities to attract new members because they are going to skip past CC when they see you do NOT have online risk here.

Do what you need to do, change it back. Start paying dues to Hasbro, I'm sure you can still make money here. I'm willing to pay an extra $5-$10 a year to make up the difference (speaking only for myself though).

It is not the same, you have changed what I came here for. You lost my renewal unless it gets fixed. It's not a threat, I just am not going to pay money for something I don't like, and I don't like what this site turned into.

GrimReaper. · Post by **GrimReaper.** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:58 am

Wow 60 pages in under a day

Timon · Post by **Timon** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:00 am

this really sucks! i quit!

joecoolfrog · Post by **joecoolfrog** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:20 am

Many of us joined this site to play risk ( or a close approximation ) so if the intention of CC is to get as far away from that concept as possible then please have the guts to stand up and tell us. Then those happy to play 1 v 1 on Age of Realms,or whatever, can carry on regardless and we can go and find another site to play the game that we enjoy.

delahoc · Post by **delahoc** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:25 am

Seems things here are finally starting to quieten down. But overall some excellent points have been made, and some general sentiments have emerged. I notice that there still doesn't seem to be a thread in the Foundry about creating a new classic map, and I note that we've still not received any specifics on what exactly was the issue with the classic map.

Quick to turn this site into crap, slow to fix.

Allerian · Post by **Allerian** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:18 am

Imo,an announcement with an explanation would have gone a long way. The blue bar message doesn't cut it. It'd be great of there was some kind of "home page" where announcements could be made... :roll:

Dissapointing leadership style!

-Robert

jiminski · Post by **jiminski** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:22 am

It seems like an irreparable disaster but we can pull through, as long as we are allowed to do it together!

The PR was not handled well!
They could have made us part of this rather than another enemy .. i suppose legality could prevent .. but there has to have been a better path than the one taken!

i want to know why there was no better contingency and why they lied to us...
i suppose that Lack must be in an even darker place at the moment and clarity of thought was overtaken by the need for survival.
This is baby after-all; he has responsibility to all of us, to his and our past endeavours and to the payment of his bills!

Perhaps doing what he did enables us to keep operating while Hasbro tries to shut him down totally. Unlikely they can do that but they could tie him up in legality for a long time if he were deemed to be obviously breaking copyright.. and if this site got temporary shut-down, that would effectively be the end.
So that horrible, temporary map is a necesssary evil ...

khazalid · Post by **khazalid** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:30 am

exactly jim, litigation would have been imminent - hence no consultation, crappy replacement maps and the good ship desolee docking at cc harbour.

however...

they have known this was more than a hypothetical possibility for a while now. as soon as iph started 'getting in touch' then some sort of contingency should really have been planned.

announcement with details ASAP please CC.

salvage yourselves some respect from your customer base.

Windparson · Post by **Windparson** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:36 am

Dumb question here on my part, but since the "new" Classic map sucks and I mean sucks, and the BoB addon does every thing but cook breakfast, why can't the person or people who do such a great job on Bob code an overlay you could use to cover up that new map?

I'm not a programmer or any thing, but they have made Bob do so many other things, I would think they could make that happen too. Or the cooking breakfast thing, I would settle for either!

This Is Sparta · Post by **This Is Sparta** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:46 am

This is absolutely horrible.. wow.

This Is Sparta · Post by **This Is Sparta** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:46 am

1000th post!

Fruitcake · Post by **Fruitcake** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:46 am

Scott-Land wrote:Seems as tho beauty is only skin deep- the map is still the same underneath just without any makeup on...

Inded Scott. Now bereft of the usual make up and finery 'Classic' is still the harlot it always was, offering itself to the highest dice ... err.. sorry...random intensity assault.

comic boy · Post by **comic boy** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:48 am

Rather than just dumping all questions into a huge generic thread, how about some answers please ;

1) What exactly is the litigation that CC has been threatened with ?
2) Why the panic measures such as new dice, map replacements,wording changes when all the other risk related sites are carrying on as normal.
3) What is the long term solution,are we dumping anything faintly resembling risk.

I am by no means a critic of the site and have pretty much always supported admin but am incensed by the lack of communication and the attempts to stiffle reasonable debate and criticism.

jiminski · Post by **jiminski** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:01 am

Ok there have to be ways we can move forward with a Revamp which does not have the possibility of breaching copyright law... (step up you lovely lawyers! god love ya!)

(Dice? well i can cope with numbers anyway but i reckon they may be an over-reaction)

Could we have an alternative world map image (there are many) and rename the areas... the area names are pretty iffy anyway!

Christ, make Central - Mexico and Siam - Thailand. We can come up with good names, they may not be accurate but then the Original is not exactly a good tool for teaching kids geography. .. Alaska could be tricky maybe call it Palinska. GB can be UK. etc..

let's go ... but as i say, we need to know what we are doing is worthwhile too please CC.

niMic · Post by **niMic** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:02 am

I agree with this. Some of us have paid this site money, I think we deserve to know what is going on. If this lead me to not renew my Premium it wouldn't be because of the ugly Classic or the ugly dice (though they are ugly), it would be because of how we're not told anything. I'm not close to that point yet, of course.

Twill · Post by **Twill** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:05 am

Hey everybody.

There's been a lot of activity on the changes we made yesterday. A lot of upset people (myself included) and a lot of questions. Let me do my best to address those concerns from what I know:

1) The maps are fugly. Yes, we know they are. I personally agree with you all on that point, but we had to change them to avoid potential copyright issues. Andydufresne, and Oaktown along with at least one or two users have already begun work on a revamp contest to find someone to come up with something better. We're hoping it goes up soon so we can get back to something more playable.

2) <so and so> must DIE! - no, they must not. Please do not attempt to arrange any sort of lynch mobs, class action law suits, consumer boycots or intestinal stranglings. These will accomplish nothing other than to piss off more people which wont solve anything for anyone, and trying to strangle someone may just make things worse - we don't want murder on our hands

Please let us handle any issues that are related to this.

3) Communication SUCKS, I'm leaving, you blow, how dare you, I want a refund - these are all fair criticisms and we are truly sorry that this panned out the way it did but again, it was something we did to avoid potential issues. All I ask is that if you have a specific complaint or suggestion please try to contact me. My inbox it flooding right now, but I will try to get to all of your concerns and address them as best as I can as soon as I can.

4) To those of you who have sent us best wishes, thank you. I wish I could thank you all personally because they mean a lot to us. I can only hope that these changes aren't too onerous and that we can continue to offer you a great game and an enjoyable site.

I know that this doesn't fix everything, but we are going to be taking steps to make things less ugly and messy. This thread is moving fairly quickly so please quote this message once every couple of pages so that future readers can keep up to date. I'm trying to read all the posts and am PMing several people to address their concerns at a pace it can be followed, but there are a lot to get through

Hang in there folks, pretty maps are hopefully coming

Twill

mrhustle54 · Post by **mrhustle54** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:07 am

So I can't really follow the new version. It really isn't pleasing to the eyes and without having the outlines I can't really make out the countries and continents. Please get rid of this stupid version.

jbrettlip · Post by **jbrettlip** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:08 am

We aren't shareholders in the site. We are simply members. Don't believe that we deserve some sort of info on any of the backoffice dealings of CC. If I was threatened with a lawsuit, I would not go around telling my neighbors, even though we all pay dues to our HOA. It is not information that is relevant.

Play the game, that is what you paid for.

jiminski · Post by **jiminski** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:13 am

Twill wrote:Hey everybody.

There's been a lot of activity on the changes we made yesterday. A lot of upset people (myself included) and a lot of questions. Let me do my best to address those concerns from what I know:

1) The maps are fugly. Yes, we know they are. I personally agree with you all on that point, but we had to change them to avoid potential copyright issues. Andydufresne, and Oaktown along with at least one or two users have already begun work on a revamp contest to find someone to come up with something better. We're hoping it goes up soon so we can get back to something more playable.

2) <so and so> must DIE! - no, they must not. Please do not attempt to arrange any sort of lynch mobs, class action law suits, consumer boycots or intestinal stranglings. These will accomplish nothing other than to piss off more people which wont solve anything for anyone, and trying to strangle someone may just make things worse - we don't want murder on our hands Please let us handle any issues that are related to this.

3) Communication SUCKS, I'm leaving, you blow, how dare you, I want a refund - these are all fair criticisms and we are truly sorry that this panned out the way it did but again, it was something we did to avoid potential issues. All I ask is that if you have a specific complaint or suggestion please try to contact me. My inbox it flooding right now, but I will try to get to all of your concerns and address them as best as I can as soon as I can.

4) To those of you who have sent us best wishes, thank you. I wish I could thank you all personally because they mean a lot to us. I can only hope that these changes aren't too onerous and that we can continue to offer you a great game and an enjoyable site.

I know that this doesn't fix everything, but we are going to be taking steps to make things less ugly and messy. This thread is moving fairly quickly so please quote this message once every couple of pages so that future readers can keep up to date. I'm trying to read all the posts and am PMing several people to address their concerns at a pace it can be followed, but there are a lot to get through

Hang in there folks, pretty maps are hopefully coming
Twill

I'll quote you later too ; )

Well done mate. we are here, use us.

comic boy · Post by **comic boy** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:15 am

jbrettlip wrote:We aren't shareholders in the site. We are simply members. Don't believe that we deserve some sort of info on any of the backoffice dealings of CC. If I was threatened with a lawsuit, I would not go around telling my neighbors, even though we all pay dues to our HOA. It is not information that is relevant.

Play the game, that is what you paid for.

Actually I paid mainly to play classic but thats a tad difficult at the moment.

magpies · Post by **magpies** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:19 am

I agree every change up till now at conquer club has been great,but the change to the classic map SUX.The lingo and dice rolls and all the other changes are great but you cant change the guts and true version of this game,this map is what everyone learns the basics on.NOT HAPPY ITS A BIG RISK

Frop · Post by **Frop** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:22 am

I'm pissed off that all the good boys went bad thanks to the recent string of incidents. You're on my turf now and I don't like it.

grainbelt · Post by **grainbelt** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:34 am

Yep this map needs to be redone. everything about the change sucks ass. COuld have been done much better. I will never play this map again

Crazy Maps And Dice?

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The ' How about some straight answers thread '

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Bring Back Original Classic Map!!!!

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