Why do people believe in God ?

[b.k. barunt]

Believing in god is not a question of higher or lower thought, it is a result of fearing the unknown. The biggest unknown is death, or more accurately what comes after death. Faith often calms these fears for subjective reasons. Science, to the contrary, likes the unknown, or rather sees a challenge in the unknown.

The more I think about it, fear is a big factor in much of what is screwed up in this world.

To say that those who believe in God do so out of fear is pretty narrow and bigotted, to say the least. Also, to say that scientists are fearless is downright ludicrous. I've found evolutionary scientists every bit as fearful of having their beliefs debunked as the most hardcore Bible thumpers - Piltdown Man, anyone?


Honibaz

[Jenos Ridan]

Believing in god is not a question of higher or lower thought, it is a result of fearing the unknown. The biggest unknown is death, or more accurately what comes after death. Faith often calms these fears for subjective reasons. Science, to the contrary, likes the unknown, or rather sees a challenge in the unknown.

The more I think about it, fear is a big factor in much of what is screwed up in this world.

To say that those who believe in God do so out of fear is pretty narrow and bigotted, to say the least. Also, to say that scientists are fearless is downright ludicrous. I've found evolutionary scientists every bit as fearful of having their beliefs debunked as the most hardcore Bible thumpers - Piltdown Man, anyone?


Honibaz

If memory serves, "Pilt-Down Man" was a hoax. And I think most of the believers I know actually think about their beliefs often. Or at least whenever they read the Bible, which appears to be quiet often.

Bk, God bless.

[mpjh]

Read the post, I never said that "scientists" were fearless.

You like those straw men don't you. They are so easy to cut down.

[Jenos Ridan]

Read the post, I never said that "scientists" were fearless.

You like those straw men don't you. They are so easy to cut down.

So Pilt-Down man wasn't a hoax?

[Snorri1234]

Read the post, I never said that "scientists" were fearless.

You like those straw men don't you. They are so easy to cut down.

So Pilt-Down man wasn't a hoax?

I know you have a hard time understanding stuff, Jenos. But this was quite a clear statement.

Mp was not saying scientists are fearless, like b.k. claimed, but that science itself is not meant to reassure or calm people down. It's quite often fucking depressing even.

[Snorri1234]

Believing in god is not a question of higher or lower thought, it is a result of fearing the unknown. The biggest unknown is death, or more accurately what comes after death. Faith often calms these fears for subjective reasons. Science, to the contrary, likes the unknown, or rather sees a challenge in the unknown.

The more I think about it, fear is a big factor in much of what is screwed up in this world.

To say that those who believe in God do so out of fear is pretty narrow and bigotted, to say the least. Also, to say that scientists are fearless is downright ludicrous. I've found evolutionary scientists every bit as fearful of having their beliefs debunked as the most hardcore Bible thumpers - Piltdown Man, anyone?


Honibaz

Also, I don't think it's actually fear in those cases. It's more of a refusal to admit you may be wrong. Everyone has that to a degree. I wouldn't say bible thumpers are fearful of having their beliefs debunker either, it's just more of the same stubborness that has simultanously made this society great and shit. It creates wars but it also allows progress. Sometimes people are right in their stubborness, and sometimes they're wrong.

[comic boy]

No religion accepts us as the person we know ourselves to be.

Sure, what would the point be? I've taught many students over the years and accepted none of them for who they knew themselves to be. I had expectations for them to be better educated and they rose to my expectations. Likewise my Taekwondo instructor didn't accept me as who I knew myself to be and as a result I've reached a point that I'm an instructor. What's so great about accepting people as they "know" themselves to be? Pretty much all progress toward any ideal is made through this type of "intolerance", and it isn't by any means a bad thing nor is it even remotely unique to religion. If anything, Christianity (the variety to which I'm a member) is more laid back about this in terms that it's basically saying "Be like Christ. Okay we know that none of us can really do that so we're going to have to be a forgiving lot; just everybody in the church try to keep it up".

Rather, we are told that we are inadequate, unsatisfactory and helpless. We fear that this is so, and to give us hope we, like Ella, construct a fantasy about how we are superior to those who do not share our views.

Here's where the suppositions come in. Has it not come to anybody's attention that this is entirely based on observations of people who are suffering from some actual, diagnosed form of mental illness? I realize that some of folks would like to categorize religious belief as such, but this is really over the top. Psychoanalysis began losing ground for having precisely the same basis as this article.

On these grounds we feel entitled to force our views on non-believers, and, if they resist, to kill them.

Now we're really out there. Let's forget that this is the sin of pride, shall we? That Christianity and other religions specifically teach against this type of stuff? Shall we also forget the inconvenient truth that non-believers are actually at least as efficient at this type of thing? I'd provide as an example the following attempts at genocide (Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.).

Good to see somebody actually discussing the article
CA may I directly ask you the pertinent question of how you came to believe in God, were you raised in a religious environment or did you find faith later in life ? If the later then were you at the time feeling stressed or empty, did you find religion comforting - no tricks here , simply interested in the process. Lastly how do you explain the fact that such large percentage of US citizens claim to believe in God compared with other developed nations, lets assume for this exercise that its not because they are the chosen people Do you see it as self perpetuating ,given that the majority of children will have been raised with some degree of religion, or more a result of social pressure/the desire to fit in. . I think it is a combination of these things but also a reflection of American society which thrives on quick fix solutions, religion offers to answer an awful lot of questions in one simple package.

[PLAYER57832]

Believing in god is not a question of higher or lower thought, it is a result of fearing the unknown. The biggest unknown is death, or more accurately what comes after death. Faith often calms these fears for subjective reasons. Science, to the contrary, likes the unknown, or rather sees a challenge in the unknown.

The more I think about it, fear is a big factor in much of what is screwed up in this world.

Fear, or attempting to find answers. A fundamental principal of science is that anything which is not PROVEN false, might, possibly be true. We form theories, put them into testable hypothesis and, regardless of the result, if the science is good (true, repeatable results and all that), science advances.

Granted, individual egos, errors and all sorts of issues can impede this process. BUT, the idea that science is somehow exclusive of faith is plain silly. Faith takes off where proof stops. Faith, in a small respect, is what leads one scientist to stake his reputation, funding on finding a result his colleagues distain. In a greater sense, faith leads some people to believe in a higher power, even God.

Those who call this "silly" are themselves the ones with limited minds. A truly great mind is not just one who knows, but one who is willing to conceive of the unkown.

Should everyone believe in God? Absolutely not! That, too, would be limiting. But, to claim that any belief in that which cannot be disproven, which cannot be known in the scientific sense at all (at least now) is as bad as those of years past who spurned any who questioned a belief in God.. or, who simply questioned if the prevailing ideas were true.

[jonesthecurl]

Read the post, I never said that "scientists" were fearless.

You like those straw men don't you. They are so easy to cut down.

So Pilt-Down man wasn't a hoax?

One of the hoaxers, if my memory isn't just throwing out a random name, was Tielard de Chardin, famous Christian philosopher. Not particularly relevant, just something the trivia file in my head wanted to say.

[Haggis_McMutton]

Fear, or attempting to find answers. A fundamental principal of science is that anything which is not PROVEN false, might, possibly be true. We form theories, put them into testable hypothesis and, regardless of the result, if the science is good (true, repeatable results and all that), science advances.

And what exactly, outside of the realm of math and logic can be PROVEN false? I say gravity doesn`t exist, the weight of our sins pulls us and down towards earth. You cannot prove me wrong. Since we have no evidence to point towards this weighing down by sins, most people choose to ignore that possibility though.

Granted, individual egos, errors and all sorts of issues can impede this process. BUT, the idea that science is somehow exclusive of faith is plain silly. Faith takes off where proof stops. Faith, in a small respect, is what leads one scientist to stake his reputation, funding on finding a result his colleagues distain. In a greater sense, faith leads some people to believe in a higher power, even God.

True.
Key words have however been bolded.

The scientist most likely has some empirical evidence or logical assertions that is convincing enough to him, to make him stake his reputation.
I don`t think he would support a theory because "he dreamed it was true, and that gave him a strong conviction in the theory"

Those who call this "silly" are themselves the ones with limited minds. A truly great mind is not just one who knows, but one who is willing to conceive of the unkown.

I am willing to try and conceive the unknown, i am not however willing to accept a certain, unlikely, untestable, option because that`s what my relatives believe, or because it has nice perks.
If the option became more likely(god showing himself etc), i`d reconsider my position.

I`d say one who somehow reaches the conclusion that such an inherently unprovable thing as god is "100% true" and then bases his actions on that assumption is a bit silly.

Should everyone believe in God? Absolutely not! That, too, would be limiting. But, to claim that any belief in that which cannot be disproven, which cannot be known in the scientific sense at all (at least now) is as bad as those of years past who spurned any who questioned a belief in God.. or, who simply questioned if the prevailing ideas were true.

Well, if you don`t base beliefs on things that can be proven, what do you base them on? Personal preference? Flip a coin?

[jonesthecurl]

And what exactly, outside of the realm of math and logic can be PROVEN false? I say gravity doesn`t exist, the weight of our sins pulls us and down towards earth. You cannot prove me wrong. Since we have no evidence to point towards this weighing down by sins, most people choose to ignore that possibility though.

I bought a kilo of carrots yesterday.
None of them looked like sinners.

[Snorri1234]

Flip a coin?

Ofcourse. How do you think I got my stance on abortion?

[Haggis_McMutton]

And what exactly, outside of the realm of math and logic can be PROVEN false? I say gravity doesn`t exist, the weight of our sins pulls us and down towards earth. You cannot prove me wrong. Since we have no evidence to point towards this weighing down by sins, most people choose to ignore that possibility though.

I bought a kilo of carrots yesterday.
None of them looked like sinners.

They were touched by sinners, sins get transferred you know. (seriously, all you are doing is testing my creativity and ability to spout out more bullshit to cover any such apparent fallacies)

[Haggis_McMutton]

Flip a coin?

Ofcourse. How do you think I got my stance on abortion?

I know, me too.
Anti-choice, pro-killing babies is soo the best option.

[jonesthecurl]

And what exactly, outside of the realm of math and logic can be PROVEN false? I say gravity doesn`t exist, the weight of our sins pulls us and down towards earth. You cannot prove me wrong. Since we have no evidence to point towards this weighing down by sins, most people choose to ignore that possibility though.

I bought a kilo of carrots yesterday.
None of them looked like sinners.

This one should really go on the "bathroom walls" thread - I saw in a science block toilet once
"There is no gravity - the Earth sucks!"

[Neoteny]

Read the post, I never said that "scientists" were fearless.

You like those straw men don't you. They are so easy to cut down.

So Pilt-Down man wasn't a hoax?

One of the hoaxers, if my memory isn't just throwing out a random name, was Tielard de Chardin, famous Christian philosopher. Not particularly relevant, just something the trivia file in my head wanted to say.

I would also like to add that it was other scientists who uncovered the hoax, regardless of their faith or lack thereof.

[PLAYER57832]

Fear, or attempting to find answers. A fundamental principal of science is that anything which is not PROVEN false, might, possibly be true. We form theories, put them into testable hypothesis and, regardless of the result, if the science is good (true, repeatable results and all that), science advances.

And what exactly, outside of the realm of math and logic can be PROVEN false? I say gravity doesn`t exist, the weight of our sins pulls us and down towards earth. You cannot prove me wrong. Since we have no evidence to point towards this weighing down by sins, most people choose to ignore that possibility though.

Old territory, but the answer is that many things we understand and live with cannot be proven. Love is the most often cited example. Scientists are beginning to pinpoint various brain activity and chemical reactions that people associate with love, but true love is extremely complex. It comes in multiple forms (love of child, love or parent, love of partner ... etc.) and cannot, as yet be "proven".

Granted, individual egos, errors and all sorts of issues can impede this process. BUT, the idea that science is somehow exclusive of faith is plain silly. Faith takes off where proof stops. Faith, in a small respect, is what leads one scientist to stake his reputation, funding on finding a result his colleagues distain. In a greater sense, faith leads some people to believe in a higher power, even God.

True.
Key words have however been bolded.

The scientist most likely has some empirical evidence or logical assertions that is convincing enough to him, to make him stake his reputation.
I don`t think he would support a theory because "he dreamed it was true, and that gave him a strong conviction in the theory"

Interestingly enough, I know scientists who DID claim they "dreamed it was true". The mind is a mysterious thing. I, however, have never made such a statement. I have adressed why and how I have my faith in other threads. But, the bottom line is that just as you might not be able to convince someone that your best friend is really and truly their life mate, I cannot convince you that God exists. Just as your friend might decide to completely fall in love with someone you abhor (not a complete criminal or anything like that ... just someone you don't like), I find something in my religion that you, apparently don't find in any religion.

Those who call this "silly" are themselves the ones with limited minds. A truly great mind is not just one who knows, but one who is willing to conceive of the unkown.

I am willing to try and conceive the unknown, i am not however willing to accept a certain, unlikely, untestable, option because that`s what my relatives believe, or because it has nice perks.
If the option became more likely(god showing himself etc), i`d reconsider my position.

I`d say one who somehow reaches the conclusion that such an inherently unprovable thing as god is "100% true" and then bases his actions on that assumption is a bit silly.

You should not believe anything just because someone else does .. even your parents (though I would say you should respect them as long as you remain in their care).

But I was not trying to convince you of anything, merely suggesting that to completely dismiss as silly and idiotic those who have beliefs you don't share ... is wrong. Just as wrong as for me to try and tell you you HAVE to agree with my faith. I suggest that we should each respect each other's positions.

Should everyone believe in God? Absolutely not! That, too, would be limiting. But, to claim that any belief in that which cannot be disproven, which cannot be known in the scientific sense at all (at least now) is as bad as those of years past who spurned any who questioned a belief in God.. or, who simply questioned if the prevailing ideas were true.

Well, if you don`t base beliefs on things that can be proven, what do you base them on? Personal preference? Flip a coin?

[/quote]

I never said there was not proof, I said it is proof that is extremely difficult or impossible to give to someone else.

This is why it is called "faith" and not science, though many, many, many people try to combine the two in all sorts of forms. And, make no mistake ... that which cannot be proven can absolutely be even more powerful than that which is proveable.

The standards of real scientific proof are extremely rigid. Our minds are not so rigid. it is why the human mind can be an artist, a writer ... or create a wonderful game called Risk. A computer, even now, today, cannot ... not really. Faith is simply one other aspect of that freedom of thought which is a big part of why humans have advanced as far as we have. Folks have tried to eliminate faith and/or narrow it down and define it with logic. Not only do they fail, but they end up losing someting very critical to humanity.

[Simon Viavant]

Actually i've examined most of the major ones, and found them all to be rather full of themselves. To call religion "irrational" is narrowminded to say the least. By doing so you are relegating some of the great thinkers of history to a status beneath yourself - forgive me for stating the obvious, but you don't seem that smart.


Honibaz

This coming from the guy who claims republicans and democrats are all the same and it's just a ruling class in duisguise as part of a big conspiracy.

[Backglass]

the question is why certain people feel the need to believe in a God.

Because most human beings can't deal with the fact that we are mortal and life ends when we die. They need the security of a higher power and/or after death destination to make it through their daily lives. It is very comforting to them to have these things to rely on when times are tough or bad things happen. These superstitions also ease the passing of loved ones young & old as they can sleep well believing that they have moved onto something else, instead of just ceasing to exist.

[Gregrios]

the question is why certain people feel the need to believe in a God.

Because most human beings can't deal with the fact that we are mortal and life ends when we die. They need the security of a higher power and/or after death destination to make it through their daily lives. It is very comforting to them to have these things to rely on when times are tough or bad things happen. These superstitions also ease the passing of loved ones young & old as they can sleep well believing that they have moved onto something else, instead of just ceasing to exist.

Can you name one person who chose to believe in a higher power for the reasons you have stated?

[pmchugh]

When I was about 6 or 7, I started thinking that it was wierd you couldn't think further back than when you were 3 or 4. Many things happened before then, but it didn't make a tiny difference to you, you just simply didn't exist, absolute nothingness. So then I thought will it ever go back to being like that? As its an incredibly scary thought (for me anyway) that you will never even think again. I answered yes when you die, and I got incredibly scared and the only way i became unscared was too think of God and heavan and life after death.

It wasn't till I was about 13 or 14 when i realised I didn't truly believe in god and that I just pretended to myself that I did to keep me happy and not fearful. i now just don't think about death as not thinking forever is an unbelievably scary thought to me.

I sometimes wonder that if i had chosen to go out that night or do anything different if i would still be a christian now defending the other side of the argument, it could so easily have happened. Having faith gave me hope and kept me happy and thats why i believed.

Why i dont believe
1. Why is christianity the correct religion when so many people throughout history have believed with all their heart that another religion is true. What makes christianity special? That program on BBC where the guy goes to Africa shows people who believe puking up every morning to be desired by the gods but if you try tell them they are wrong will they agree? What makes my religion different from the others?

2. Do ants go to heaven?..."no" so what happens when they die? Do they cease to exist? If so then why are we not the same? What makes us so special? An ant still thinks does it not deserve an after life too?
i think if such a thing as an after life exists then all or no creatures must be entitled to it as, you wouldn't just have heaven for smart humans, so you couldn't just have a heaven for smart animals. And the concept that a midgy goes to heaven is ridiculous to me so the concepts contradict each other.

3. Jesus- Anyone see the program about that Micheal guy who had a town convinced that he was a prophet? Isn't there vast similarities between him and jesus. Majority of people don't believe him, a small minority are convinced 100%. Public reject Jesus and send him to be crucified, public reject Michael guy and make fun of him on tv. Couldn't Jesus just be the olden day equivalent. How do I know that im not just as deluded as the idiots on tv.

4. the old testement- it's a load of mince, look at the ridiculous commandments etc. If it's mince and Jesus wasn't a prophet then christianity falls apart in my eyes.

I realise that many of you will disagree with me and I'm not attempting to change anyones opinion just saying why I believed and now dont. The only thing that i am unsure about is how the universe started, how can something come from nothing and why doesn't an entire new universe just start in front of us now if something can come from nothing.

Anyway sorry for the long post, keep the faith i wish I had...

[comic boy]

the question is why certain people feel the need to believe in a God.

Because most human beings can't deal with the fact that we are mortal and life ends when we die. They need the security of a higher power and/or after death destination to make it through their daily lives. It is very comforting to them to have these things to rely on when times are tough or bad things happen. These superstitions also ease the passing of loved ones young & old as they can sleep well believing that they have moved onto something else, instead of just ceasing to exist.

Can you name one person who chose to believe in a higher power for the reasons you have stated?

Are you seriously saying that you dont believe that those points are relevant to anyone

[Simon Viavant]

Actually i've examined most of the major ones, and found them all to be rather full of themselves. To call religion "irrational" is narrowminded to say the least. By doing so you are relegating some of the great thinkers of history to a status beneath yourself - forgive me for stating the obvious, but you don't seem that smart.


Honibaz

Yeah, what Iliad said. And also, most of the great thinkers of history were rather full of themsleves too.

[b.k. barunt]

Actually i've examined most of the major ones, and found them all to be rather full of themselves. To call religion "irrational" is narrowminded to say the least. By doing so you are relegating some of the great thinkers of history to a status beneath yourself - forgive me for stating the obvious, but you don't seem that smart.


Honibaz

This coming from the guy who claims republicans and democrats are all the same and it's just a ruling class in duisguise as part of a big conspiracy.

??? A ruling class in "duisguise"? Let me clear it up for you genius - Democrat/Republican = 2 sides of the same fooking coin. No Machiavellian conspiracies there - just the same old shite in 2 different wrappings, served up to gullible masses who want to believe that their vote actually means something. A ruling class in disguise? Whatthefuck are they disguised as? Construction workers? Nuns? Munchkins?


Honibaz

[black elk speaks]

When I was about 6 or 7, I started thinking that it was wierd you couldn't think further back than when you were 3 or 4. Many things happened before then, but it didn't make a tiny difference to you, you just simply didn't exist, absolute nothingness. So then I thought will it ever go back to being like that? As its an incredibly scary thought (for me anyway) that you will never even think again. I answered yes when you die, and I got incredibly scared and the only way i became unscared was too think of God and heavan and life after death.

It wasn't till I was about 13 or 14 when i realised I didn't truly believe in god and that I just pretended to myself that I did to keep me happy and not fearful. i now just don't think about death as not thinking forever is an unbelievably scary thought to me.

I sometimes wonder that if i had chosen to go out that night or do anything different if i would still be a christian now defending the other side of the argument, it could so easily have happened. Having faith gave me hope and kept me happy and thats why i believed.

Why i dont believe
1. Why is christianity the correct religion when so many people throughout history have believed with all their heart that another religion is true. What makes christianity special? That program on BBC where the guy goes to Africa shows people who believe puking up every morning to be desired by the gods but if you try tell them they are wrong will they agree? What makes my religion different from the others?

2. Do ants go to heaven?..."no" so what happens when they die? Do they cease to exist? If so then why are we not the same? What makes us so special? An ant still thinks does it not deserve an after life too?
i think if such a thing as an after life exists then all or no creatures must be entitled to it as, you wouldn't just have heaven for smart humans, so you couldn't just have a heaven for smart animals. And the concept that a midgy goes to heaven is ridiculous to me so the concepts contradict each other.

3. Jesus- Anyone see the program about that Micheal guy who had a town convinced that he was a prophet? Isn't there vast similarities between him and jesus. Majority of people don't believe him, a small minority are convinced 100%. Public reject Jesus and send him to be crucified, public reject Michael guy and make fun of him on tv. Couldn't Jesus just be the olden day equivalent. How do I know that im not just as deluded as the idiots on tv.

4. the old testement- it's a load of mince, look at the ridiculous commandments etc. If it's mince and Jesus wasn't a prophet then christianity falls apart in my eyes.

I realise that many of you will disagree with me and I'm not attempting to change anyones opinion just saying why I believed and now dont. The only thing that i am unsure about is how the universe started, how can something come from nothing and why doesn't an entire new universe just start in front of us now if something can come from nothing.

Anyway sorry for the long post, keep the faith i wish I had...

Fundamentally, I agree with you, but your arguments are based on things that you really haven't thought through. You actually use TV shows as a point of reference to describe your lack of faith. That's pretty sad. Fact of the matter is, there can be only one truth. If the Judaic Christian god is the one and only true god, then its claim that jesus is the only way to salvation is true. You can't argue that other religions are valid if Christianity is valid. There can be only one truth even if that truth is that there is no god and that we fade into and out of existence only once.

Major flaws in your post:
1. there can be only one truth. your assumption that christianity is wrong because it claims to be the one true faith is not sound. Find another reason.
2. you have no idea what happens to ants when they die. No one does, because no one knows what happens to anything when it dies, least of all people.
3. It was a fucking TV show!
4. were you there during old testament times? The 10 commandments are the basis for a vast majority of laws around the world. They all make sense.