Obligatory 911 Thread

[jiminski]

Why would anyone feel the need to point that out though? Why compare severity of tragedies?

It's like saying "Calm down dude, I know you mom died, but she's not the only mom to ever die"

That's correct with only one flaw.. (and the emotive nature of this subject makes it very uncomfortable for me to point out)

If your mother is killed in a random drive-by, gang shooting, you will receive almost unquestioning sympathy. If you then go out; blow up all the shooters and their entire gang.. you will probably still get arrested but will retain the sympathy of the average person. If you go further going to kill all the families of the gang members, their dogs and blowing up all their houses and killing anyone associated with them and further settle a few scores while you can .. you will have lost the understanding of the average onlooker.

Now i am sorry and you are right.. perhaps this is a day when it should be left alone .. but i am fucking pissed off that you guys fucked up the entire world in an act of vengeance!

my sympathy and regret truly is with anyone related or friends with anyone lost in this terrible disaster.

But the subtle difference between your 'Mom' analogy is that empathy with those who your national foreign policy affects is very important; sadly heinous acts have been fullfilled in the name of those who tragically died and it is important that this is said.. Bad though the timing most certainly is; the blatant manipulation of the occurrence by your government will have implications for the whole world for generations!

This day should be about remembering those who died on that day ... but perhaps also the crimes which were committed in their name!

[pimpdave]

how many times do you need it to be spelt out for you that no one is making fun of anything that shouldn't be made fun of. the only aspects of 9/11 reffered to in light you yourself have already admitted it is probably acceptable to mock (e.g. the troofers, OTT patriots, and so on)

So just wait one more day. Just leave today off the calendar for these threads.

Why do we even need to call attention to the ones who mock the victims, even if to mock the mockers?

Maybe I've overreacted a bit. But to call me to account for crimes committed without my consent, done in the names of the innocent victims is rubbing salt into the wounds that get ripped open, every year, on this day.

Just wait until tomorrow, and I'll join you all in condemning the US government for their piss poor reaction, and posting pictures of people with tin foil on their heads.

[jiminski]

how many times do you need it to be spelt out for you that no one is making fun of anything that shouldn't be made fun of. the only aspects of 9/11 reffered to in light you yourself have already admitted it is probably acceptable to mock (e.g. the troofers, OTT patriots, and so on)

So just wait one more day. Just leave today off the calendar for these threads.

Why do we even need to call attention to the ones who mock the victims, even if to mock the mockers?

Maybe I've overreacted a bit. But to call me to account for crimes committed without my consent, done in the names of the innocent victims is rubbing salt into the wounds that get ripped open, every year, on this day.

Just wait until tomorrow, and I'll join you all in condemning the US government for their piss poor reaction, and posting pictures of people with tin foil on their heads.

That really is fair enough! The indelicate nature of my post is only due to the fact that the taboo nature of questioning that grief, allowed grave mistakes to transpire. Not enough questions were asked of your policy makers whilst a nation was consumed in shock and sadness. (Remember that many British people died there too and 'we' backed you way past the point of good sense)

[comic boy]

Im not suggesting that this is specifically the case for those here who consider only 9/11 victims worth weeping for, but there is no doubt that for the USA as a whole it was the blow to their prestige that hurt more than anything. Of course the loss of life was shocking but if it affects you so badly then why are you not in the streets screaming about the fact that so far the 'revenge ' has accounted for 3 times as many American citizens and 50 times as many innocent Iraqis. Is this continual rememberence of 9/11 mourning the victims or mourning the beginning of the end of the American dream ?

[MeDeFe]

Yes, this may be true. Please direct me to all of the threads mocking the bombings in London of 7 July 2005.

i have a picture of one of the buses captioned 'visit britain, it's a blast' if that counts

I think it counts, and was one terrorist in Glasgow really nicknamed Maheed Sonfire? That's hilarious.

[kletka]

the fact that so far the 'revenge ' has accounted for 3 times as many American citizens and 50 times as many innocent Iraqis. Is this continual rememberence of 9/11 mourning the victims or mourning the beginning of the end of the American dream ?

WTF "revenge"? Every human knows that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 (those who still believe should be classed as large monkeys ) It was settling a family feud (Bush-Senior - Saddam) using the fog of war...

Afganistan, on the other hand, is a sort of revenge. There is a direct link. But it was necessary to tackle Al-Qaeda and the country was mess anyways since 1978 or so...

On a separate note, on 9/11 the world has been shown brave new terrorist capabilities. People were truly afraid what is next. Nuclear weapon Nothing like this has materialised. London and Madrid, as bad as they were didn't come even close in their "audacity of hope" or logistical complexity... not counting LHC, off course

[Anarkistsdream]

[jiminski]

Yes, this may be true. Please direct me to all of the threads mocking the bombings in London of 7 July 2005.

i have a picture of one of the buses captioned 'visit britain, it's a blast' if that counts

I think it counts, and was one terrorist in Glasgow really nicknamed Maheed Sonfire? That's hilarious.

We Brits do joke about anything and as Mandy says, we use humour as to defuse sad or dangerous times.
On a personal level my great Aunt was decapitated in a car crash about 40 years ago and my wicked Aunty (her niece) still to this day jokes about the funeral costing extra due her having to be buried in 2 coffins... it is funny when she does it at family occasions.. i assure you.

We also make light of our terrorist attacks. For example in 1984 the IRA blew up our government who were staying in a hotel in Brighton (Norman Tebbit was a senior member of the cabinet, sadly his wife was paralysed in the attack)

The Brighton Bomb.
Q. Who's the fastest reader in the house of Commons?
A. Norman Tebbit, He did three storeys in under a minute.

Q. What're pink and fluffy and don't move?
A. Mrs. Tebbits slippers.

Now the 2nd one is very insensitive and distasteful but it was a different time then.

[Snorri1234]

Man, we make fun of stuff like this too. Though we haven't had something happen on such a massive scale, I can't think of a single tragedy that hasn't been made fun off at one time.

[InkL0sed]

Alright, I stopped reading this around page four, but I don't think I've missed anything new, as I didn't see anything to suggest anything was gonna change.

Here's what I have to say: under most circumstances, I don't shy away from joking about pretty much anything. Yes, I would joke about 9/11 (though I don't find anything to joke about concerning the event itself), or the Holocaust, or rape, or murder, or dead babies.

But there are of course exceptions. I know people who had a parent die that day. I would never dare even mention 9/11 to them. And I wouldn't joke about Jews in ovens in front of my grandmother (who was a girl during the Holocaust), etc. I will say that it is wise to remember that saying something on the Internet is in some ways like saying it publicly. Anybody can read it, and you never know who might take offense.

So, yes; you can joke about 9/11 conspiracies and the media surrounding it, but don't be shocked when someone on the Internet takes offense.

About the moment of silence thing: I go to a school that's mere blocks away from Ground Zero. Absolutely no one stands up for the pledge; nobody said a word of complaint during our moment of silence. It's not ridiculous in this case. It's something that universally effected the city.

Now, back on topic:

I was in 5th grade at the time, but I remember a lot of specific things about that day.

At the time I was at a school in the Upper West Side, so I wasn't in any danger. I remember that there was a lot of fuss going around about something, though I didn't know what. I remember one kid in my class telling me the seniors were all talking about something, but he didn't know what. When we got back to our homeroom (we still had only one teacher for the day in 5th grade), our teacher told us that a plane had crashed into a building in Rockefeller Center. At least, that's what I remember her saying; I suspect she did say World Trade Center, but since all I knew was the name "Twin Towers" and nothing of the World Trade Center, I think I just heard Rockefeller Center instead (I had to go through that station to get to school every day, so I knew that name well). She also told us no one had gotten hurt, probably to keep us from worrying.

Later on, I went to go the bathroom, and this kid a couple years older than me said, "Hey, did you hear? The Twin Towers fell down!" This kid was known as a clown, so I dismissed him, calling him a liar.

But by the end of the day, I gradually realized it was true. My friend's dad, who was a Physics teacher there, happened to have his SUV nearby, so he drove me and a bunch of other people home. I have two images that I remember from that ride. The first was going down a completely abandoned FDR drive; the second was of a huge cloud of smoke engulfing the buildings a little distance away down one of the man-canyons often called avenues.

That's basically the meat of the story; there are a lot of other little things not worth mentioning that I remember too.

[pimpdave]

I should have just taken a shit load of xanax today, like I did last year, and the year before, etc.

Make me numb to everyone who probably doesn't even realize that images of the towers falling, as hilarious as they may find whatever it is they think they represent, represent the snuffing out of thousands of lives to those of us who saw it happen. And I know many of you saw it on TV, but you missed out on the sound, the shaking of the earth, the dust everywhere, and that smell. That awful smell, like burned plastic, but beneath that like what a barbecue would smell like if the meat was roasted by diesel fuel.

Carry on everyone. Go make fun of the tragedy however you wish.

I'm peacing out to the bar, where I won't have to read any of this shit, and we can get hammered and throw darts at pictures of Osama bin-Laden and George W. Bush all night long. It's the one night of the year no one seems to get called a pussy for crying a little bit and telling everyone they love them, but it's also the one night of the year that anyone talking shit about 9/11 (at least around here) gets a free ticket to Beatingsville, with a layover in Poundingtown.

[Snorri1234]

But there are of course exceptions. I know people who had a parent die that day. I would never dare even mention 9/11 to them. And I wouldn't joke about Jews in ovens in front of my grandmother (who was a girl during the Holocaust), etc. I will say that it is wise to remember that saying something on the Internet is in some ways like saying it publicly. Anybody can read it, and you never know who might take offense.

You ofcourse have a point. However, the counterpoint is that the internet also makes everything meaningless. I don't take offense whenever some random dude in flame wars says he boned my mum last night, but I know none of my friends would ever say such a thing to me. (Though they ofcourse say it to one-another, but that's cool.) Ofcourse, even the internet has exceptions (4chan) but in general stuff can be take much less harshly. It's just words on the internet, a bunch of zeros and ones.

[Snorri1234]

anyone talking shit about 9/11 (at least around here) gets a free ticket to Beatingsville, with a layover in Poundingtown.

Yeah, but that is different because it's real life. As Ink said, you are far more carefull to mention stuff in real life in fear of upsetting someone. Or just because you think it's inappropiate. I would never mention anything face-to-face about how funny 9/11 was, not out of fear of being beaten, but more out of knowing that it would hurt people.

I can't pretend to really, truely care about it. It's outside out of my monkeysphere, it's like an event out of history that has been long ago. Anyone who wasn't there or knows people who were there really can't say anything about it that will comfort you. It's like people you've never met in your entire life coming up to you and tell you how sorry they are that your mother passed away, it sounds comforting but in the end it's not genuine.

I'm sorry, dave. It's a hollow sorry as I can't begin to imagine how it must be for those who witnessed it, but it's all I can offer.

[InkL0sed]

I disagree, the Internet is NOT meaningless!

People just take that excuse to be assholes. Including myself at times, I must admit.

[comic boy]

the fact that so far the 'revenge ' has accounted for 3 times as many American citizens and 50 times as many innocent Iraqis. Is this continual rememberence of 9/11 mourning the victims or mourning the beginning of the end of the American dream ?

WTF "revenge"? Every human knows that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 (those who still believe should be classed as large monkeys ) It was settling a family feud (Bush-Senior - Saddam) using the fog of war...

Afganistan, on the other hand, is a sort of revenge. There is a direct link. But it was necessary to tackle Al-Qaeda and the country was mess anyways since 1978 or so...

On a separate note, on 9/11 the world has been shown brave new terrorist capabilities. People were truly afraid what is next. Nuclear weapon Nothing like this has materialised. London and Madrid, as bad as they were didn't come even close in their "audacity of hope" or logistical complexity... not counting LHC, off course

Everybody knows the reasons do they ?
Well Bush and a few of his cronies do but I doubt those select few include you so dont get all pretentious please. Fact is that the USA wanted revenge and it was a nice vote winner for the president, a bigger man may have resisted the urge to make profit from the tragedy and a wiser man may have been more aware of the implications but Bush was and is neither of these things.

[Snorri1234]

I disagree, the Internet is NOT meaningless!

People just take that excuse to be assholes. Including myself at times, I must admit.

The internet is meaningless is a pretty big fashion. At least the social interaction that goes on there.

[jonesthecurl]

A different thing, but somehow the same:

When I had my games shop, we obvioulsy sold among other things a bunch of WWII games. We had one customer, an old guy obviously, who'd fought in the war. He found it offensive that today we treat the deaths of many of his friends as entertainment. He admitted it was hypocritical in a way, as he enjoyed wargames a lot, adnregularly refought (for instance) the battles of the various Napoloeonic struggles.He wasn't annoyed with me personally for stocking them or my customers for buying them, he just found it sad.

I've noted generally that when people these days talk about that war(especially), the discussion will usually within seconds become a discussion of war movies.

No particular point to make, just musing.

[comic boy]

I should have just taken a shit load of xanax today, like I did last year, and the year before, etc.

Make me numb to everyone who probably doesn't even realize that images of the towers falling, as hilarious as they may find whatever it is they think they represent, represent the snuffing out of thousands of lives to those of us who saw it happen. And I know many of you saw it on TV, but you missed out on the sound, the shaking of the earth, the dust everywhere, and that smell. That awful smell, like burned plastic, but beneath that like what a barbecue would smell like if the meat was roasted by diesel fuel.

Carry on everyone. Go make fun of the tragedy however you wish.

I'm peacing out to the bar, where I won't have to read any of this shit, and we can get hammered and throw darts at pictures of Osama bin-Laden and George W. Bush all night long. It's the one night of the year no one seems to get called a pussy for crying a little bit and telling everyone they love them, but it's also the one night of the year that anyone talking shit about 9/11 (at least around here) gets a free ticket to Beatingsville, with a layover in Poundingtown.

You are a bit dim aren't you, despite having been told a dozen times that nobody is making fun of the tragedy you blunder on regardless, you are asked to substantiate you claims but do not ( largely I would guess because you cannot and are not man enough to concede you were hasty in your assumptions ) Well if everybody talking shit about 9/11 is going to get a beating tonight then I venture you are going to be black and blue with bruises by tommorow

[Snorri1234]

Yeah I think it's another part of global thinning down the borders. And the problem of people not having enough other people to tell them about things. Such a horrible thing as WW2 is remembred here but at times disrupted by kids (neo-nazis or foreigners) who have no clue about what it meant to some people.

[heavycola]

I should have just taken a shit load of xanax today, like I did last year, and the year before, etc.

Make me numb to everyone who probably doesn't even realize that images of the towers falling, as hilarious as they may find whatever it is they think they represent, represent the snuffing out of thousands of lives to those of us who saw it happen. And I know many of you saw it on TV, but you missed out on the sound, the shaking of the earth, the dust everywhere, and that smell. That awful smell, like burned plastic, but beneath that like what a barbecue would smell like if the meat was roasted by diesel fuel.

Carry on everyone. Go make fun of the tragedy however you wish.

I'm peacing out to the bar, where I won't have to read any of this shit, and we can get hammered and throw darts at pictures of Osama bin-Laden and George W. Bush all night long. It's the one night of the year no one seems to get called a pussy for crying a little bit and telling everyone they love them, but it's also the one night of the year that anyone talking shit about 9/11 (at least around here) gets a free ticket to Beatingsville, with a layover in Poundingtown.

so... more mindless violence then? Good luck with that peacing out, dude.

NO ONE FOUND THE ATTACKS HILARIOUS.
Plenty of people sharing their experiences and responses in this thread say they saw the attacks on television, as did 99.9999% of the world. As I said, it affected all of us to some degree. I remember where I was and what I was doing when I saw the news that day and how the world fell out its own arse, as does probably everyone on here. No one, not even a new yorker, has a right to send anyone with a different response than them to 'beatingsville'. Perhaps, had that attitude not been so prevalent in the white house 7 years ago, there might be a few more iraqi civilians alive. It's a vague and probably way-out-of-line supposition but it's a thought nonetheless. Dude, eat the xanax. And try not to kick the shit out of any foreigners this evening.

Mandy, this is for you:

[mandyb]

Mandy, this is for you:


Gosh, I should avoid you more often.
ty

[black elk speaks]

Now i am sorry and you are right.. perhaps this is a day when it should be left alone .. but i am fucking pissed off that you guys fucked up the entire world in an act of vengeance!

You go too far. The military action in Afghanistan was indeed justified. The primary reason for going into Iraq was not because of Sept. 11, it was because our president wanted to get rid of Sadam. The two events were unrelated. Lets not forget that earlier that year we dropped some bombs on Iraq for some reason to do with the no fly zone, but then we had the spy plane incident in China, all thoughts of Iraq fell off the radar. GW wanted into Iraq way before Sept 11, and so he did. Don't confuse the issues when you talk about the 2. Afghanistan is a legitimate campaign.

[jiminski]

Now i am sorry and you are right.. perhaps this is a day when it should be left alone .. but i am fucking pissed off that you guys fucked up the entire world in an act of vengeance!

..
Don't confuse the issues when you talk about the 2. ...

don't forget to read my posts before you comment on them.

[Nobunaga]

... Iraq was (and still is) about China.

...

[kletka]

NO ONE FOUND THE ATTACKS HILARIOUS.

So what? Humor helps dealing with stress and it is absolutely normal for a human to joke about most horrid things. Read Rabelais or Chaucer. BTW, one famous modern writer is Vladimir Sorokin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Sorokin, who was sued by descendants of various historical and cultural figures If "Blue Lard" is ever translated into English, I highly recommend!! The gay sex scene between Stalin and Hitler will blow your mind away